Feedback on strong programs for Middle School-aged swimmers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

OP here - We’ve spoken with coaches, attended practices and they have his times. Per the NCAP Burke website Bronze 1 is highest performing 11-12 yo, Silver 1 is highest performing 13-14 yo and Gold 1 is highest performing 14-18 yo. This is in line with USAS standards that advise not prematurely moving strong younger swimmers up to senior groups to prevent burnout. Swimmer in question turns 12 next month and going into Jr High (7th grade). Way too young to be swimming with high schoolers. That is our current situation overseas and while he leads the pack isn’t not developmentally or socially appropriate. Currently our only option though. Looking for a great team with a strong cohort at his level for him to grow and develop with over the next few years.

The original question was whether anyone has personal experience with NCAP- Alexandria or Marlins at Geo Washington for similar level groups at that age in case we find housing in their area instead. This would be Age Group Performance for NCAP Alexandria and Senior Silver for Marlins.

FWIW, we are a very experienced swim family. Father was D1 swimmer, older brother is a D1 swimmer. Understand all the issues around injuries, burnout, developmental training, etc. Family has been very involved in the swim community in multiple locations for years (team & league operations and officiating) and looking to find a great new swim home in NoVa but it’s challenging to do so from overseas. Have lived in NoVa before and understand the traffic challenges so looking to secure housing in close proximity to practice locations because 30 mins each way to early morning practices is the pits.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and advice. Will keep fingers crossed that a great house (or even reasonable house that’s somewhat affordable) in close proximity to LB, Robinson, OKM and or Crosspointe hits the market. Have been in contact with both OKM and Crosspointe and they’d love to have us join their teams. We just need to be able to secure housing close by. This market is nuts…

To answer your original question then, though Marlins is a great team, they do not have a particularly strong cohort at GW. Their strong swimmers are at &cub Run and Audrey Moore/Franconia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

It's simply not true about RMSC. As I know, most of advanced juniors at county sites swim 2-4 times per week (1-1.5 hours), most of advanced juniors at city site swim 4-5 times. Far less than what you talked about NCAP-Burke practices. My kid (9 yo) has multiple BB times and swim 1-3 times in their entry group (1 hour).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

It's simply not true about RMSC. As I know, most of advanced juniors at county sites swim 2-4 times per week (1-1.5 hours), most of advanced juniors at city site swim 4-5 times. Far less than what you talked about NCAP-Burke practices. My kid (9 yo) has multiple BB times and swim 1-3 times in their entry group (1 hour).

Our Bronze II 9-12 year olds only swim 3 hours per week. They may never go to Bronze I, and they only move to 5 hours per week when they get to Bronze I or Silver. Our 9U Bronze III group only swims 2 hours per week. That is less than you wrote, and less than Machine. All of the children at RMSC who are directly competitive with my 9 year old are swimming at least 4 hours per week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

It's simply not true about RMSC. As I know, most of advanced juniors at county sites swim 2-4 times per week (1-1.5 hours), most of advanced juniors at city site swim 4-5 times. Far less than what you talked about NCAP-Burke practices. My kid (9 yo) has multiple BB times and swim 1-3 times in their entry group (1 hour).

Our Bronze II 9-12 year olds only swim 3 hours per week. They may never go to Bronze I, and they only move to 5 hours per week when they get to Bronze I or Silver. Our 9U Bronze III group only swims 2 hours per week. That is less than you wrote, and less than Machine. All of the children at RMSC who are directly competitive with my 9 year old are swimming at least 4 hours per week.

My understanding of the difference is that advanced 9-10s at RMSC have the option to swim 4 times per week, whereas they don’t have that option at NCAP-Burke. Whether the children take advantage of the RMSC option is different than whether they have the opportunity. Similarly, many of the Bronze I swimmers in NCAP-Burke don’t attend every one of the 5 available practices (usually due to other activities), but they do have the 5 practice option. Hope this makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

It's simply not true about RMSC. As I know, most of advanced juniors at county sites swim 2-4 times per week (1-1.5 hours), most of advanced juniors at city site swim 4-5 times. Far less than what you talked about NCAP-Burke practices. My kid (9 yo) has multiple BB times and swim 1-3 times in their entry group (1 hour).

Our Bronze II 9-12 year olds only swim 3 hours per week. They may never go to Bronze I, and they only move to 5 hours per week when they get to Bronze I or Silver. Our 9U Bronze III group only swims 2 hours per week. That is less than you wrote, and less than Machine. All of the children at RMSC who are directly competitive with my 9 year old are swimming at least 4 hours per week.

My understanding of the difference is that advanced 9-10s at RMSC have the option to swim 4 times per week, whereas they don’t have that option at NCAP-Burke. Whether the children take advantage of the RMSC option is different than whether they have the opportunity. Similarly, many of the Bronze I swimmers in NCAP-Burke don’t attend every one of the 5 available practices (usually due to other activities), but they do have the 5 practice option. Hope this makes sense.

That seems right based on what RMSC states here about Junior I, but we are straying far from OP’s query since she’s not looking at RMSC.
https://www.rockvillemd.gov/DocumentCenter/View/42190/RMSC---Rockville-Fall23-Winter24-Registration-Packet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

Unfortunately your baseless claims trying to criticize other teams is completely wrong for Machine just as it apparently was for RMSC.

We are at Machine Audrey Moore and in the 4:40 AM High Performance group (mostly 7th and 8th graders from my understanding with the occasional old 6th or young 9th grader) and not a single 12 year old in the group will go more than 4 times a week and they have had multiple finalists at 14&Under champs in the 11-12 the past 3 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

Unfortunately your baseless claims trying to criticize other teams is completely wrong for Machine just as it apparently was for RMSC.

We are at Machine Audrey Moore and in the 4:40 AM High Performance group (mostly 7th and 8th graders from my understanding with the occasional old 6th or young 9th grader) and not a single 12 year old in the group will go more than 4 times a week and they have had multiple finalists at 14&Under champs in the 11-12 the past 3 years.

PP - Oh my, I’m sorry you read that as a criticism. Re-reading my post, I don’t see a judgment or slant contained therein. I actually meant to compare the programs. I adore the Machine coaches and admire their program (aside from the early start times). My daughter was accepted to the Audrey Moore and Oak Marr HP Orange teams, but we live too far away. (Coach Dan and Coach Jason did tell us she would need to swim 4 mornings per week and practices are 1.5 hours per day, which is 3 hours more per week than NCAP-Burke). I only meant to show that NCAP-Burke Bronze 2 do not have the option to swim any more than 3 hours/week, even if swimmers want more. Readers can make up their minds if that is appropriate and desirable or if that is too little for a talented swimmer. Certainly even parents on NCAP-Burke differ in their conclusions, but it’s all that is available until one moves to Bronze I or Silver groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

Unfortunately your baseless claims trying to criticize other teams is completely wrong for Machine just as it apparently was for RMSC.

We are at Machine Audrey Moore and in the 4:40 AM High Performance group (mostly 7th and 8th graders from my understanding with the occasional old 6th or young 9th grader) and not a single 12 year old in the group will go more than 4 times a week and they have had multiple finalists at 14&Under champs in the 11-12 the past 3 years.

PP - Oh my, I’m sorry you read that as a criticism. Re-reading my post, I don’t see a judgment or slant contained therein. I actually meant to compare the programs. I adore the Machine coaches and admire their program (aside from the early start times). My daughter was accepted to the Audrey Moore and Oak Marr HP Orange teams, but we live too far away. (Coach Dan and Coach Jason did tell us she would need to swim 4 mornings per week and practices are 1.5 hours per day, which is 3 hours more per week than NCAP-Burke). I only meant to show that NCAP-Burke Bronze 2 do not have the option to swim any more than 3 hours/week, even if swimmers want more. Readers can make up their minds if that is appropriate and desirable or if that is too little for a talented swimmer. Certainly even parents on NCAP-Burke differ in their conclusions, but it’s all that is available until one moves to Bronze I or Silver groups.

Touchy much? You read far too much into that post and have misplaced your defensive retort. It’s helpful to readers to know how many hours per week swimmers have the opportunity to practice at different sites and different levels, and you only served to underscore EXACTLY what the PP wrote: the kids at Machine who are at the same level as NCAP-Burke Bronze II have the chance to practice between 1.5 and 3 hours more per week. Full stop. Moreover, a simple review of the practice times at Machine gives the same info, so remove that chip off your shoulder. PP was far too nice to you with his reply.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6450087731ba3e656346533f/t/6509b615a4315c71bbb75335/1695135253616/AMR+Practice+schedule+posting.jpg

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6450087731ba3e656346533f/t/6509b954cf90a21150af0db3/1695136084525/OAKMARR+SCHEDULE+2023-2024.jpg

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6450087731ba3e656346533f/t/6509b9ac0dbf7e552ceff0e1/1695136172642/TUCKAHOE+SCHEDULE+2023-2024.jpg

https://www.gomotionapp.com/team/pvncbf/page/training-groups

<Mic drop>

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

Unfortunately your baseless claims trying to criticize other teams is completely wrong for Machine just as it apparently was for RMSC.

We are at Machine Audrey Moore and in the 4:40 AM High Performance group (mostly 7th and 8th graders from my understanding with the occasional old 6th or young 9th grader) and not a single 12 year old in the group will go more than 4 times a week and they have had multiple finalists at 14&Under champs in the 11-12 the past 3 years.

PP - Oh my, I’m sorry you read that as a criticism. Re-reading my post, I don’t see a judgment or slant contained therein. I actually meant to compare the programs. I adore the Machine coaches and admire their program (aside from the early start times). My daughter was accepted to the Audrey Moore and Oak Marr HP **Silver** [not orange] teams, but we live too far away. (Coach Dan and Coach Jason did tell us she would need to swim 4 mornings per week and practices are 1.5 hours per day, which is 3 hours more per week than NCAP-Burke). I only meant to show that NCAP-Burke Bronze 2 do not have the option to swim any more than 3 hours/week, even if swimmers want more. Readers can make up their minds if that is appropriate and desirable or if that is too little for a talented swimmer. Certainly even parents on NCAP-Burke differ in their conclusions, but it’s all that is available until one moves to Bronze I or Silver groups.

**corrected; my memory was wrong so I looked back in my email and it was HP Silver, not orange

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile, the OP is rethinking their entire move after being exposed to NoVa swim parents

Makos may have the combo of camaraderie, balance, and strong coaching you’re seeking. A lot of Fairfax and Burke families swim for them. They’re not cranking out elites at the levels of NCAP or RMSC, but have some top tier swimmers in every age group and send athletes to top collegiate programs annually. The fact that it’s one site fosters a sense of team despite the individual nature of club swim. Good luck with the move!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

when do they practice an instrument or complete their homework?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

NP: Pages 10-14: https://www.rockvillemd.gov/DocumentCenter/View/42190/RMSC---Rockville-Fall23-Winter24-Registration-Packet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, the OP is rethinking their entire move after being exposed to NoVa swim parents

Makos may have the combo of camaraderie, balance, and strong coaching you’re seeking. A lot of Fairfax and Burke families swim for them. They’re not cranking out elites at the levels of NCAP or RMSC, but have some top tier swimmers in every age group and send athletes to top collegiate programs annually. The fact that it’s one site fosters a sense of team despite the individual nature of club swim. Good luck with the move!

OP here - Just a bit ….NoVa wasn’t our first choice for many reasons but it’s a military move so not much choice in the matter. Thanks for the info on the Makos. One reason we initially focused on the LB/Robinson area was to give ourselves flexibility to be close to other teams such as Makos if NCAP ended up not being his cup of tea. Don’t want to pigeonhole ourselves into an area with only one option within a reasonable drive. Unfortunately we didn’t get a chance to do a visit with them but will do that before we commit.

It was curious to me that so many Crosspoint swimmers swim for Machine. I presume at the Audrey Moore location? Seems much further away than Burke Racquet but I’m sure there is more to that decision than pure distance (traffic patterns, coaches, friends on the team, etc)