Feedback on strong programs for Middle School-aged swimmers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just turning 12 but looking at a program to grow with until college. Currently training 4/days week. Looking to focus on a solid program that avoids burnout while following USA Swimming’s American Development Model for training groups.

Look into Machine, for sure. They seem to take long-term development well into account, and the importance of having fun at all levels. We have family friends who are former D1 swimmers - both parents - and they chose Machine for their kids, specifically for those reasons.

[Anonymous]

Only thing with Machine is early morning practice times at Audrey Moore. That a no-go for younger kids, but maybe 13-14 is a good time to switch to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only thing with Machine is early morning practice times at Audrey Moore. That a no-go for younger kids, but maybe 13-14 is a good time to switch to that.

machine is nuts, 430 and 445 a !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only thing with Machine is early morning practice times at Audrey Moore. That a no-go for younger kids, but maybe 13-14 is a good time to switch to that.

machine is nuts, 430 and 445 a !

Pretty sure Machine is one of the newest clubs in the LSC outside of teams like Foxes, FAA, and St James so they have just got whatever leftover space Fairfax county had when they were starting out and considering they were far and away the 3rd best team behind NCAP and RMSC at 14&Under champs they have done a great job with what they have.

[Anonymous]

Which NVSL teams generally do not have a waitlist?

[Anonymous]

Here is a list of NVSL teams and whether they have a WL

[Anonymous]

https://www.mynvsl.com/file/35818/2023_Join_a_Pool_that_has_an_NVSL_Team_BY_CITY__3_31_23_pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.mynvsl.com/file/35818/2023_Join_a_Pool_that_has_an_NVSL_Team_BY_CITY__3_31_23_pdf

Some of these are HOA-only but do not indicate so. Little Rocky Run is HOA only. Fair Oaks has an 8 mile radius mandate. Donaldson Run has boundaries in which members must live.

You can also find the newest division seedlings in the “News” section of this page. OP - with your swimmers’ times, I might suggest looking in the top divisions for a team, or scanning the “leaders” criteria for the 2023 11-12 boys’ All Star Meet to see which teams have competitive kids in your child’s age group. https://www.mynvsl.com/

Of course, none of this is as important as fun on the team. Crosspointe, Old Keene Mill, and Orange Hunt all look like they have fun. Lakeview also looked like fun. I’m sure others will share about the culture of (and accessibility to) their teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.mynvsl.com/file/35818/2023_Join_a_Pool_that_has_an_NVSL_Team_BY_CITY__3_31_23_pdf

Some of these are HOA-only but do not indicate so. Little Rocky Run is HOA only. Fair Oaks has an 8 mile radius mandate. Donaldson Run has boundaries in which members must live.

You can also find the newest division seedlings* in the “News” section of this page. OP - with your swimmers’ times, I might suggest looking in the top divisions for a team, or scanning the “leaders” criteria for the 2023 11-12 boys’ All Star Meet to see which teams have competitive kids in your child’s age group. https://www.mynvsl.com/

[edit: seedings]

Of course, none of this is as important as fun on the team. Crosspointe, Old Keene Mill, and Orange Hunt all look like they have fun. Lakeview also looked like fun. I’m sure others will share about the culture of (and accessibility to) their teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.mynvsl.com/file/35818/2023_Join_a_Pool_that_has_an_NVSL_Team_BY_CITY__3_31_23_pdf

Some of these are HOA-only but do not indicate so. Little Rocky Run is HOA only. Fair Oaks has an 8 mile radius mandate. Donaldson Run has boundaries in which members must live.

You can also find the newest division seedlings in the “News” section of this page. OP - with your swimmers’ times, I might suggest looking in the top divisions for a team, or scanning the “leaders” criteria for the 2023 11-12 boys’ All Star Meet to see which teams have competitive kids in your child’s age group. https://www.mynvsl.com/

Of course, none of this is as important as fun on the team. Crosspointe, Old Keene Mill, and Orange Hunt all look like they have fun. Lakeview also looked like fun. I’m sure others will share about the culture of (and accessibility to) their teams.

Looking at rankings Crosspointe were way better in the 11-12 boys category last summer than all the rest of the teams.

They had multiple swimmers ranked in the final top 25 in every event (except 50 breast but their one kid there was the fastest) and they won both relays at all-star relays by almost 2 full seconds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.mynvsl.com/file/35818/2023_Join_a_Pool_that_has_an_NVSL_Team_BY_CITY__3_31_23_pdf

Some of these are HOA-only but do not indicate so. Little Rocky Run is HOA only. Fair Oaks has an 8 mile radius mandate. Donaldson Run has boundaries in which members must live.

You can also find the newest division seedlings in the “News” section of this page. OP - with your swimmers’ times, I might suggest looking in the top divisions for a team, or scanning the “leaders” criteria for the 2023 11-12 boys’ All Star Meet to see which teams have competitive kids in your child’s age group. https://www.mynvsl.com/

Of course, none of this is as important as fun on the team. Crosspointe, Old Keene Mill, and Orange Hunt all look like they have fun. Lakeview also looked like fun. I’m sure others will share about the culture of (and accessibility to) their teams.

Looking at rankings Crosspointe were way better in the 11-12 boys category last summer than all the rest of the teams.

They had multiple swimmers ranked in the final top 25 in every event (except 50 breast but their one kid there was the fastest) and they won both relays at all-star relays by almost 2 full seconds.

They also have a few really fast 10 year old boys moving up to replace all the 12 year olds moving up to 13-14. Most of these boys swim at Machine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only thing with Machine is early morning practice times at Audrey Moore. That a no-go for younger kids, but maybe 13-14 is a good time to switch to that.

machine is nuts, 430 and 445 a !

Pretty sure Machine is one of the newest clubs in the LSC outside of teams like Foxes, FAA, and St James so they have just got whatever leftover space Fairfax county had when they were starting out and considering they were far and away the 3rd best team behind NCAP and RMSC at 14&Under champs they have done a great job with what they have.

I'm not blaming them for avaialbilty, I'm just saying, that is so early for a kid to get up for the rest of their swim career- this kid is middle school, so potentially 6 years of 430a swim? My kids have done a year at 5a and it sucks so bad for the whole family- but they are high schoolers. But it is enough to make me wish they switched teams. And they are not sleeping enough at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

OP here - We’ve spoken with coaches, attended practices and they have his times. Per the NCAP Burke website Bronze 1 is highest performing 11-12 yo, Silver 1 is highest performing 13-14 yo and Gold 1 is highest performing 14-18 yo. This is in line with USAS standards that advise not prematurely moving strong younger swimmers up to senior groups to prevent burnout. Swimmer in question turns 12 next month and going into Jr High (7th grade). Way too young to be swimming with high schoolers. That is our current situation overseas and while he leads the pack isn’t not developmentally or socially appropriate. Currently our only option though. Looking for a great team with a strong cohort at his level for him to grow and develop with over the next few years.

The original question was whether anyone has personal experience with NCAP- Alexandria or Marlins at Geo Washington for similar level groups at that age in case we find housing in their area instead. This would be Age Group Performance for NCAP Alexandria and Senior Silver for Marlins.

FWIW, we are a very experienced swim family. Father was D1 swimmer, older brother is a D1 swimmer. Understand all the issues around injuries, burnout, developmental training, etc. Family has been very involved in the swim community in multiple locations for years (team & league operations and officiating) and looking to find a great new swim home in NoVa but it’s challenging to do so from overseas. Have lived in NoVa before and understand the traffic challenges so looking to secure housing in close proximity to practice locations because 30 mins each way to early morning practices is the pits.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and advice. Will keep fingers crossed that a great house (or even reasonable house that’s somewhat affordable) in close proximity to LB, Robinson, OKM and or Crosspointe hits the market. Have been in contact with both OKM and Crosspointe and they’d love to have us join their teams. We just need to be able to secure housing close by. This market is nuts…