Feedback on strong programs for Middle School-aged swimmers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

OP here - We’ve spoken with coaches, attended practices and they have his times. Per the NCAP Burke website Bronze 1 is highest performing 11-12 yo, Silver 1 is highest performing 13-14 yo and Gold 1 is highest performing 14-18 yo. This is in line with USAS standards that advise not prematurely moving strong younger swimmers up to senior groups to prevent burnout. Swimmer in question turns 12 next month and going into Jr High (7th grade). Way too young to be swimming with high schoolers. That is our current situation overseas and while he leads the pack isn’t not developmentally or socially appropriate. Currently our only option though. Looking for a great team with a strong cohort at his level for him to grow and develop with over the next few years.

The original question was whether anyone has personal experience with NCAP- Alexandria or Marlins at Geo Washington for similar level groups at that age in case we find housing in their area instead. This would be Age Group Performance for NCAP Alexandria and Senior Silver for Marlins.

FWIW, we are a very experienced swim family. Father was D1 swimmer, older brother is a D1 swimmer. Understand all the issues around injuries, burnout, developmental training, etc. Family has been very involved in the swim community in multiple locations for years (team & league operations and officiating) and looking to find a great new swim home in NoVa but it’s challenging to do so from overseas. Have lived in NoVa before and understand the traffic challenges so looking to secure housing in close proximity to practice locations because 30 mins each way to early morning practices is the pits.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and advice. Will keep fingers crossed that a great house (or even reasonable house that’s somewhat affordable) in close proximity to LB, Robinson, OKM and or Crosspointe hits the market. Have been in contact with both OKM and Crosspointe and they’d love to have us join their teams. We just need to be able to secure housing close by. This market is nuts…

To answer your original question then, though Marlins is a great team, they do not have a particularly strong cohort at GW. Their strong swimmers are at &cub Run and Audrey Moore/Franconia.

OP here - Thank you for that feedback! Exactly what we needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

Exactly! The differences in hours per week exist below the top/elite 11-12 practice groups (in other words, there are large hours/week discrepancies across each club’s 9-12 practice groups that *aren’t* the elite 11-12 year olds). We also see differences in the amount of time per practice outside of the top 11-12 practice groups. I think the arguers did not understand that point when one of the posters made it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

[Anonymous]

This is the part where the parents of elites feel threatened and say it’s simply “impossible” to final at the big meets if you’re not training 5 days+/week. (They don’t want to know that there are comparable swimmers training less than their kids.) The rest of us point out several examples of where this isn’t the case and around and round we go. There are clubs that allow 4 days/week for their elite age group swimmers and those kids are making big cuts and finals at big meets. There are just a lot more at NCAP etc. doing so. and sure, it’s partly the training and partly a numbers game as a PP pointed out. Bottom line, if you’re seeking balance, there are clubs where a AAA/AAAA swimmer will flourish with 4 days/week and there are clubs where it won’t be allowed. Neither is better, but both options do exist for highly competitive age group swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

Absolutely looking to thread that needle. It’s a very tough balance to let them still be kids, prevent burnout, train them to their abilities with kids their own age and have a structure that will allow them to grow and develop through HS.

Yes, completely understand the grind. Oldest DS practiced 10-11/week through most of HS in a top program out west. I think a lot of coaches learned coming out of COVID that kids don’t really need to practice quite that much year round for years on end. Many swimmers had great seasons in 2021/22 after the COVID rest. I hope gone are the days when elite swimmers quip that they haven’t missed a day of practice in 4 years…including training on every holiday.

We would not choose to prematurely move him up a group as we feel strongly he should train with his own age group. We don’t want to push him to far too fast or put too much pressure on him while he’s young. He already gets it now because he can smoke most of the HS swimmers here. Other parents make all sorts of comments (well meaning) and we have to put the brakes on and remind them he’s still very young.
Yes, absolutely looking for a fun summer swim environment to balance year round club…hopefully with some of the same kids. Swim needs to be FUN!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

Absolutely looking to thread that needle. It’s a very tough balance to let them still be kids, prevent burnout, train them to their abilities with kids their own age and have a structure that will allow them to grow and develop through HS.

Yes, completely understand the grind. Oldest DS practiced 10-11/week through most of HS in a top program out west. I think a lot of coaches learned coming out of COVID that kids don’t really need to practice quite that much year round for years on end. Many swimmers had great seasons in 2021/22 after the COVID rest. I hope gone are the days when elite swimmers quip that they haven’t missed a day of practice in 4 years…including training on every holiday.

We would not choose to prematurely move him up a group as we feel strongly he should train with his own age group. We don’t want to push him to far too fast or put too much pressure on him while he’s young. He already gets it now because he can smoke most of the HS swimmers here. Other parents make all sorts of comments (well meaning) and we have to put the brakes on and remind them he’s still very young.
Yes, absolutely looking for a fun summer swim environment to balance year round club…hopefully with some of the same kids. Swim needs to be FUN!!!

It can be a hard needle to thread for sure. The bigger clubs are generally your best option for that because they can have an age appropriate cohort of swimmers of similar ability to train with. Your kid obviously has innate talent with those times and a smaller club wouldn’t diminish that, but there would be far fewer kids on their level to train with. I’m biased, but my elite kid has benefitted greatly from having kids to train with that are of similar ability and similar age, and that is just something they couldn’t get at a smaller club. Summer swim in this area can be intense, we are in a smaller league and it’s great. My kid has enough of a pressure cooker environment year round, summer is their time to relax and have fun. I don’t know if you’re limited to the Burke area but there are some areas of VA that are accessible to top clubs and a more low key summer environment than NVSL.

[Anonymous]

There's a lot to be said both for balance in middle school AND having a competitive cohort to train with at that age, but I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement there. Might be a complete non-starter with the work commute, but I'll throw in a vote for PWSL if you are looking for a more low-key summer league experience. To the best of my knowledge most teams do NOT have a residency/membership requirement, and everyone swims together (no A/B meets, unless a team decides to run it's own in-house B meets). PWC has some very strong high school teams also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a lot to be said both for balance in middle school AND having a competitive cohort to train with at that age, but I'm pretty sure we're all in agreement there. Might be a complete non-starter with the work commute, but I'll throw in a vote for PWSL if you are looking for a more low-key summer league experience. To the best of my knowledge most teams do NOT have a residency/membership requirement, and everyone swims together (no A/B meets, unless a team decides to run it's own in-house B meets). PWC has some very strong high school teams also.

I’m one of the PPs and I was trying to see if PWC was a non-starter. It would give access to NCAP West and PWSL, which are both great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

Absolutely looking to thread that needle. It’s a very tough balance to let them still be kids, prevent burnout, train them to their abilities with kids their own age and have a structure that will allow them to grow and develop through HS.

Yes, completely understand the grind. Oldest DS practiced 10-11/week through most of HS in a top program out west. I think a lot of coaches learned coming out of COVID that kids don’t really need to practice quite that much year round for years on end. Many swimmers had great seasons in 2021/22 after the COVID rest. I hope gone are the days when elite swimmers quip that they haven’t missed a day of practice in 4 years…including training on every holiday.

We would not choose to prematurely move him up a group as we feel strongly he should train with his own age group. We don’t want to push him to far too fast or put too much pressure on him while he’s young. He already gets it now because he can smoke most of the HS swimmers here. Other parents make all sorts of comments (well meaning) and we have to put the brakes on and remind them he’s still very young.
Yes, absolutely looking for a fun summer swim environment to balance year round club…hopefully with some of the same kids. Swim needs to be FUN!!!

It can be a hard needle to thread for sure. The bigger clubs are generally your best option for that because they can have an age appropriate cohort of swimmers of similar ability to train with. Your kid obviously has innate talent with those times and a smaller club wouldn’t diminish that, but there would be far fewer kids on their level to train with. I’m biased, but my elite kid has benefitted greatly from having kids to train with that are of similar ability and similar age, and that is just something they couldn’t get at a smaller club. Summer swim in this area can be intense, we are in a smaller league and it’s great. My kid has enough of a pressure cooker environment year round, summer is their time to relax and have fun. I don’t know if you’re limited to the Burke area but there are some areas of VA that are accessible to top clubs and a more low key summer environment than NVSL.

Definitely open to Colonial or one of the other summer leagues but know less about them. Burke Center teams swim Colonial, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

Absolutely looking to thread that needle. It’s a very tough balance to let them still be kids, prevent burnout, train them to their abilities with kids their own age and have a structure that will allow them to grow and develop through HS.

Yes, completely understand the grind. Oldest DS practiced 10-11/week through most of HS in a top program out west. I think a lot of coaches learned coming out of COVID that kids don’t really need to practice quite that much year round for years on end. Many swimmers had great seasons in 2021/22 after the COVID rest. I hope gone are the days when elite swimmers quip that they haven’t missed a day of practice in 4 years…including training on every holiday.

We would not choose to prematurely move him up a group as we feel strongly he should train with his own age group. We don’t want to push him to far too fast or put too much pressure on him while he’s young. He already gets it now because he can smoke most of the HS swimmers here. Other parents make all sorts of comments (well meaning) and we have to put the brakes on and remind them he’s still very young.
Yes, absolutely looking for a fun summer swim environment to balance year round club…hopefully with some of the same kids. Swim needs to be FUN!!!

It can be a hard needle to thread for sure. The bigger clubs are generally your best option for that because they can have an age appropriate cohort of swimmers of similar ability to train with. Your kid obviously has innate talent with those times and a smaller club wouldn’t diminish that, but there would be far fewer kids on their level to train with. I’m biased, but my elite kid has benefitted greatly from having kids to train with that are of similar ability and similar age, and that is just something they couldn’t get at a smaller club. Summer swim in this area can be intense, we are in a smaller league and it’s great. My kid has enough of a pressure cooker environment year round, summer is their time to relax and have fun. I don’t know if you’re limited to the Burke area but there are some areas of VA that are accessible to top clubs and a more low key summer environment than NVSL.

Definitely open to Colonial or one of the other summer leagues but know less about them. Burke Center teams swim Colonial, right?

The NCAP-Burke Bronze I coach is the new head coach at Burke Centre Penguins (CSL) as of a few weeks ago. He is awesome!
https://www.gomotionapp.com/team/reccobcpva/page/contacts/coaches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

Absolutely looking to thread that needle. It’s a very tough balance to let them still be kids, prevent burnout, train them to their abilities with kids their own age and have a structure that will allow them to grow and develop through HS.

Yes, completely understand the grind. Oldest DS practiced 10-11/week through most of HS in a top program out west. I think a lot of coaches learned coming out of COVID that kids don’t really need to practice quite that much year round for years on end. Many swimmers had great seasons in 2021/22 after the COVID rest. I hope gone are the days when elite swimmers quip that they haven’t missed a day of practice in 4 years…including training on every holiday.

We would not choose to prematurely move him up a group as we feel strongly he should train with his own age group. We don’t want to push him to far too fast or put too much pressure on him while he’s young. He already gets it now because he can smoke most of the HS swimmers here. Other parents make all sorts of comments (well meaning) and we have to put the brakes on and remind them he’s still very young.
Yes, absolutely looking for a fun summer swim environment to balance year round club…hopefully with some of the same kids. Swim needs to be FUN!!!

It can be a hard needle to thread for sure. The bigger clubs are generally your best option for that because they can have an age appropriate cohort of swimmers of similar ability to train with. Your kid obviously has innate talent with those times and a smaller club wouldn’t diminish that, but there would be far fewer kids on their level to train with. I’m biased, but my elite kid has benefitted greatly from having kids to train with that are of similar ability and similar age, and that is just something they couldn’t get at a smaller club. Summer swim in this area can be intense, we are in a smaller league and it’s great. My kid has enough of a pressure cooker environment year round, summer is their time to relax and have fun. I don’t know if you’re limited to the Burke area but there are some areas of VA that are accessible to top clubs and a more low key summer environment than NVSL.

Definitely open to Colonial or one of the other summer leagues but know less about them. Burke Center teams swim Colonial, right?

The NCAP-Burke Bronze I coach is the new head coach at Burke Centre Penguins (CSL) as of a few weeks ago. He is awesome!
https://www.gomotionapp.com/team/reccobcpva/page/contacts/coaches

OP- Saw that 💙💙. That would be a great solution…DS really likes him…just need to find a house in that area!! <swim mom superpowers> 🦸‍♀️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

Absolutely looking to thread that needle. It’s a very tough balance to let them still be kids, prevent burnout, train them to their abilities with kids their own age and have a structure that will allow them to grow and develop through HS.

Yes, completely understand the grind. Oldest DS practiced 10-11/week through most of HS in a top program out west. I think a lot of coaches learned coming out of COVID that kids don’t really need to practice quite that much year round for years on end. Many swimmers had great seasons in 2021/22 after the COVID rest. I hope gone are the days when elite swimmers quip that they haven’t missed a day of practice in 4 years…including training on every holiday.

We would not choose to prematurely move him up a group as we feel strongly he should train with his own age group. We don’t want to push him to far too fast or put too much pressure on him while he’s young. He already gets it now because he can smoke most of the HS swimmers here. Other parents make all sorts of comments (well meaning) and we have to put the brakes on and remind them he’s still very young.
Yes, absolutely looking for a fun summer swim environment to balance year round club…hopefully with some of the same kids. Swim needs to be FUN!!!

It can be a hard needle to thread for sure. The bigger clubs are generally your best option for that because they can have an age appropriate cohort of swimmers of similar ability to train with. Your kid obviously has innate talent with those times and a smaller club wouldn’t diminish that, but there would be far fewer kids on their level to train with. I’m biased, but my elite kid has benefitted greatly from having kids to train with that are of similar ability and similar age, and that is just something they couldn’t get at a smaller club. Summer swim in this area can be intense, we are in a smaller league and it’s great. My kid has enough of a pressure cooker environment year round, summer is their time to relax and have fun. I don’t know if you’re limited to the Burke area but there are some areas of VA that are accessible to top clubs and a more low key summer environment than NVSL.

Definitely open to Colonial or one of the other summer leagues but know less about them. Burke Center teams swim Colonial, right?

The NCAP-Burke Bronze I coach is the new head coach at Burke Centre Penguins (CSL) as of a few weeks ago. He is awesome!
https://www.gomotionapp.com/team/reccobcpva/page/contacts/coaches

OP- Saw that 💙💙. That would be a great solution…DS really likes him…just need to find a house in that area!! <swim mom superpowers> 🦸‍♀️

Good luck on the OP. The market here has gotten beyond crazy and tight. So much for the market slowing down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is 13 or 14, I would think they'd be above Bronze 1 at NCAP burke? with AA and AAA times? I would look into that more before moving heaven and earth to go there.

Also, NCAP is fast, but they require 5 or 6 days at an early age. Is your kid on board with that? Mako, FAA, and others can give them opportunity with 4/5 days in middle school.

Take it from an older swim parent who is currently watching many of the high schoolers who have been doing this forever get burned out. Injuries happen too.

Exactly what I am thinking. A middle schooler with those times would not be in Bronze 1. My 9 yr moved out of Bronze with A times. A swimmer in MS with AAA/AAAA times would be in Gold. No way it would be Bronze.

Different sites of NCAP use different ages for the programs. At our site you can’t move out of Bronze until age 13 and you can’t get into Gold until HS. Silver is a select group, you have to have certain times, attendance etc. and those are the kids tracking to Gold 1 or 2, the more low key HS group is Gold 3 and you go there directly from Bronze 1 if you aren’t going to Silver.

We are at NCAP-Burke. Most of the swimmers in Bronze I have AA times. A few have AAA times. Most are age 11-12, but several elite 10 year olds are in it. They practice 5 mornings or 5 nights per week for 1.25 or 1.5 hours (NCAP-Burke swimmers under age 12 practice far far less than Machine and RMSC due to coaches’ philosophy that kids should have many activities. 12U NCAP-Burke swimmers are usually multi-sport athletes/dancers/competitive cheer/gymnasts). A few NCAP-Burke swimmers go to Silver I at age 12, but it is only the elite swimmers (similar to the very few 10 year olds that move into Bronze I). At NCAP-Burke, Bronze I is a smaller, coach-selected group, ie, swimmers from Bronze II may never go to Bronze I, and Bronze I is the group that moves into Silver I and Gold I. My daughter is a young nine with BB times and close to one A time, and she will not move into Bronze I until, minimally, age (almost) 11.

That is a nutty amount of swimming for 11-12 yos. BS that those kids are doing “multiple sports” if they’re in the pool 5 nights a week for 1.25-1.5 hours. And RMSC 11-12 yos swim less than that, even the advanced groups.

This has been discussed frequently here, but every top club posts their practice requirements and all of their highest performance groups for 11-12 year olds have kids in the water 5 days a week. RMSC, NCAP, ASA, Machine, OCCS, FISH (the top 6 teams at JOs) - all of them have at least 5 practices a week for their top 11-12 year old group.

All these PPs that say NCAP Burke is cool with their top swimmers doing multiple sports- I assure you, they won't want your middle schooler missing practices and meets for other sports in middle school- especially if you're in the top group- my kids have friends there and the pressure is on if you skip and you aren't as favored in coaching. The PP that said that has a 9 year old doing 3x.


OP you say you swam growing up. Then you should know swim is a grind. So summer swim should be a blast and relaxing thing. Pick the team that is nearby and your kid will have fun and friends, they can make all stars on any team if they are fast.

One last thing. Of course a lot of the teams above have tons of kids at JO, they are huge. NCAP is the biggest team, probably followed by Machine, both have many locations. But for an 11/12 year old, they can definitely succeed swimming less, even up to 14. Why decide your kid needs 5x now?

Here’s the thing though, there are practice requirements for the elite 11-12 year old groups. You cannot be in one of those groups and just decide you are only going to swim 3 days a week. That means you then need to place yourself in a regular training group, which will not have a cohort of similar swimmers. OP’s swimmer is AAA/AAAA, the regular 3x a week practice group will not have other swimmers at OPs kid’s level.

Absolutely looking to thread that needle. It’s a very tough balance to let them still be kids, prevent burnout, train them to their abilities with kids their own age and have a structure that will allow them to grow and develop through HS.

Yes, completely understand the grind. Oldest DS practiced 10-11/week through most of HS in a top program out west. I think a lot of coaches learned coming out of COVID that kids don’t really need to practice quite that much year round for years on end. Many swimmers had great seasons in 2021/22 after the COVID rest. I hope gone are the days when elite swimmers quip that they haven’t missed a day of practice in 4 years…including training on every holiday.

We would not choose to prematurely move him up a group as we feel strongly he should train with his own age group. We don’t want to push him to far too fast or put too much pressure on him while he’s young. He already gets it now because he can smoke most of the HS swimmers here. Other parents make all sorts of comments (well meaning) and we have to put the brakes on and remind them he’s still very young.
Yes, absolutely looking for a fun summer swim environment to balance year round club…hopefully with some of the same kids. Swim needs to be FUN!!!

It can be a hard needle to thread for sure. The bigger clubs are generally your best option for that because they can have an age appropriate cohort of swimmers of similar ability to train with. Your kid obviously has innate talent with those times and a smaller club wouldn’t diminish that, but there would be far fewer kids on their level to train with. I’m biased, but my elite kid has benefitted greatly from having kids to train with that are of similar ability and similar age, and that is just something they couldn’t get at a smaller club. Summer swim in this area can be intense, we are in a smaller league and it’s great. My kid has enough of a pressure cooker environment year round, summer is their time to relax and have fun. I don’t know if you’re limited to the Burke area but there are some areas of VA that are accessible to top clubs and a more low key summer environment than NVSL.

Definitely open to Colonial or one of the other summer leagues but know less about them. Burke Center teams swim Colonial, right?

Yes. Burke centre is an HOA community in Burke. Burke centre has two swim teams (Burke centre stingers and Burke centre penguins). They compete in the colonial swim league. The closest club teams- Ncap (Burke location), machine (Audrey Moore location), makos (GMU).