How to talk to dc about this scenario?

[Anonymous]

NP. I have a pretty sensitive, easy-to-tears 10 yo. It would never occur to me to place the burden of that onto another child. Kids can be mean, or rude, or pushy or whatever, but at the end of the day you just say “that sucked” and move on.

Agree with PP on giving the kid a wide berth moving forward.

[Anonymous]

I would not tell your DC about the panic attack if he's not aware of it. That's simply for the reason of protecting the privacy of that other child. If that information got into the wrong hands he could be bullied badly for his panic reaction.

I would have a discussion in general with DC about not touching people without their consent, not hitting and shoving even as a joke, age appropriate behavior, etc. I would rather use hypothetical examples, like a playful push could lead someone to twist their ankle or hit their head, and that DC is now bigger and stronger and needs to be more mindful. And also bring up how some people may have triggers and experiences that will make them react badly to a touch that DC meant as playful or innocent (like a swat on the butt).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't think you're nuts. They're 10 year old boys, and while the other kid's reaction is unfortunate, it's WAY outside of the norm. I'd feel similarly.

I’m a teacher. I never would have communicated to you that your son was in any way responsible for a panic attack. My contact would have been about the push and that we don’t do that, even in jest.

Op - this is what I said to my husband. Why tell me all this detail about the kid’s panic attack?
I myself get panic attacks in enclosed spaces so I have a huge amount of sympathy for the kid - but I don’t want ds to internalize that he is the entire cause of that

Maybe the teacher wanted to give you full context to talk to your kid as they were a witness to the panic attack. I doubt the teacher wants you to pour guilt on to your kid about it, but it is easier for you to talk to your kid with a better understanding of what actually happened. That's how I would have interpreted it, anyway.

Op - maybe - I did try to read it with that lens. But then there was a whole para about finding ways for dc to make amends which didn’t quite fit with that interpretation

My son is at a very progressive school and they would focus on amends, too. That’s because the amends are for the impact, not the intent. The intent was playful! That’s great. But the kid had a panic attack. Your son can make amends without it being about being bad or blaming. Think of it as repair instead - how can your son help the two be friends and feel better again? That’s all it means.

op - i think amends is fine!
but the level of focus on how it affected the other kid just feels 'off' to me. I think a better articulation of it is that it feels to me like the kid's panic attack has 80% roots in something outside of that interaction, and while I absolutely want my DC to be accountable for being physical in a way that was not appropriate, I don't want him to internalize shame about the magnitude of the kid's reaction to it.

Your responses are fairly crazy. He screwed up and should know it. He has earned what the school wants, and then you and his dad will make sure he doesn’t “internalize shame.” Don’t at all find credible your crap about how this is innocent bunny DS’s first-ever pure of heart error.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wat if he accidentally bumped into the weird kid and he went into a full-blown panic attack? Accountable thrrr too?

He intended to do what he did. I doubt the kid is the only “weird” one with OP having her own “panic attacks” and having (faking) “huge empathy” for the kid.

Check yourself, OP. Defensive, defensive, defensive. Parent better, if you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

So because OP's DC pushed the boy, he needs to avoid him forever?

Why can't he act like a regular person and just treat him regularly, going forward, without pushing him?

It turns out that some kids are fine with rough play and some aren't. And kids should know which are which. Sometimes they find out the hard way.

If this is all it was, I doubt it would have happened this way. This kid would avoid the game or tell people. Or they would have the panic attack and then accept an apology from the kid without making it a huge thing. Some kids are just huge drama llamas and tattletales, and those are kids you need to avoid. This sounds like that to me.

What is the kid doing to make it a "huge thing?" Is there any evidence that OP's child apologized at all? You complain that the other kid both didn't tell someone *and* that they are a tattletale -- which is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

So because OP's DC pushed the boy, he needs to avoid him forever?

Why can't he act like a regular person and just treat him regularly, going forward, without pushing him?

It turns out that some kids are fine with rough play and some aren't. And kids should know which are which. Sometimes they find out the hard way.

If this is all it was, I doubt it would have happened this way. This kid would avoid the game or tell people. Or they would have the panic attack and then accept an apology from the kid without making it a huge thing. Some kids are just huge drama llamas and tattletales, and those are kids you need to avoid. This sounds like that to me.

What is the kid doing to make it a "huge thing?" Is there any evidence that OP's child apologized at all? You complain that the other kid both didn't tell someone *and* that they are a tattletale -- which is it?

+ 1.

Defensive moms of little aholes never, ever see what their pathetic momma bearing has done, even when third parties, not the directly impacted party, get involved. The other kid has some kind of anxiety - just like OP. OP’s kid intentionally pushed. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Got a note from dc’s teacher that ds (10) during a PE game, pushed a kid out of his way in a way that ds thought was playful and the other kid did not. The note from the teacher detailed that the kid went on to have a pretty severe panic attack/ hyperventilated etc/ had to leave the class and they would be looking for ways for dc to make amends and for us to talk to dc about the panic attack the other kid had and the gravity of situation. I said of course and let’s maybe chat quickly if teacher has time.

In the past if I have ever had notes about my kids behavior I’ve always been so so contrite and on board with fixing and I absolutely think that pushing is unacceptable and dc should make amends for this.

I am a little concerned though this time with dc feeling completely responsible for another child’s quite extreme reaction to this event. It’s 100000% my dc’s accountability that he pushed someone and even if he thought funny, it was NOT funny or appropriate for that person and never ok to push. But something about giving him the entire burden of responsibility for the kid’s reaction worries me for reasons I can’t articulate. Am I just nuts? It kind of doesn’t matter either way bc I will do the same thing but curious if my feeling has any merit bc I don’t want to be TA

I want this to sound constructive and not snarky— is pushing/physicality something your DC is particularly struggling with? Is it possible the boy he pushed has been targeted before/being bullied?

Because it seems odd of the teacher to be quite so detailed in the note unless he/she thought this wasn’t being taken seriously or there was a larger problem.

Op - no, not really.
Def not a bullying situation. They would absolutely say.
It’s a progressive private so they are quite over communicative which I appreciate overall.

Apples don’t fall far from the tree. An anxious kid who has a panic attack likely has a parent who is quick to blame, demand accountability, and generally stir up a lot of drama at school rather than calmly ask for a meeting to mitigate future risk. This is a CYA move from the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Got a note from dc’s teacher that ds (10) during a PE game, pushed a kid out of his way in a way that ds thought was playful and the other kid did not. The note from the teacher detailed that the kid went on to have a pretty severe panic attack/ hyperventilated etc/ had to leave the class and they would be looking for ways for dc to make amends and for us to talk to dc about the panic attack the other kid had and the gravity of situation. I said of course and let’s maybe chat quickly if teacher has time.

In the past if I have ever had notes about my kids behavior I’ve always been so so contrite and on board with fixing and I absolutely think that pushing is unacceptable and dc should make amends for this.

I am a little concerned though this time with dc feeling completely responsible for another child’s quite extreme reaction to this event. It’s 100000% my dc’s accountability that he pushed someone and even if he thought funny, it was NOT funny or appropriate for that person and never ok to push. But something about giving him the entire burden of responsibility for the kid’s reaction worries me for reasons I can’t articulate. Am I just nuts? It kind of doesn’t matter either way bc I will do the same thing but curious if my feeling has any merit bc I don’t want to be TA

I want this to sound constructive and not snarky— is pushing/physicality something your DC is particularly struggling with? Is it possible the boy he pushed has been targeted before/being bullied?

Because it seems odd of the teacher to be quite so detailed in the note unless he/she thought this wasn’t being taken seriously or there was a larger problem.

Op - no, not really.
Def not a bullying situation. They would absolutely say.
It’s a progressive private so they are quite over communicative which I appreciate overall.

Apples don’t fall far from the tree. An anxious kid who has a panic attack likely has a parent who is quick to blame, demand accountability, and generally stir up a lot of drama at school rather than calmly ask for a meeting to mitigate future risk. This is a CYA move from the teacher.

If you’re right, it’s still time for OPs son to learn the lesson that you follow the rules, or the outcome is no longer in your control.

Life is going to be full of people who will react to things in ways this kid doesn’t anticipate. He might mouth off to the wrong college professor and fail, flirt with the wrong co-worker and lose his job for harassment, push the wrong kid in gym class and wind up needing to make amends. Now is a great time to learn that the rules apply to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher way overstepped, they shouldn’t be discussing this with you at all. Tell your kid to to apologize for pushing that’s it.

This..

It's really none of your business if he had a panic attack or not.

Your son is not responsible for managing the kids anxiety or reactions.

He apologizes for the push..

If the teacher can't let it go after that we'd be having a meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not tell your DC about the panic attack if he's not aware of it. That's simply for the reason of protecting the privacy of that other child. If that information got into the wrong hands he could be bullied badly for his panic reaction.

I would have a discussion in general with DC about not touching people without their consent, not hitting and shoving even as a joke, age appropriate behavior, etc. I would rather use hypothetical examples, like a playful push could lead someone to twist their ankle or hit their head, and that DC is now bigger and stronger and needs to be more mindful. And also bring up how some people may have triggers and experiences that will make them react badly to a touch that DC meant as playful or innocent (like a swat on the butt).

I don't think you need to have a trigger or prior experience to react badly to being touched on the butt...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's this doctrine in tort law called "the eggshell plaintiff"...it means that you are liable for any injuries that your actions cause, no matter how unforeseen or unusual or uncommon, even if the average person would not suffer those injuries. I know they are 10 and this isn't a lawsuit or anything, but the teacher's take is literally the law in this country, so she's probably not so off base...

Can't your son be sorry without feeling shame?

I’m not sure we should be using tort principals here. If we are, then tort law would find that there were no damages, so …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

This is a great way to think about it. You don't get to minimize someone else's reaction to something just because you think it's a bit much. That's not the way the world works.

Well, you also don’t get to magnify the gravity of someone’s conduct if they behaved in a normal way but inadvertently harmed someone abnormally sensitive. It’s pretty clear the child has emotional challenges - I’ve seen it before where a child dramatically overreacts to normal situations.

This is really about how the school is handling it in placing all the blame on OP’s son and magnifying the gravity of what he did. OP’s not wrong to pick up on that. What I suspect is that the sensitive child’s parents don’t really know or accept what is going on with their kid, and based on the extremity of his reaction, believe that the other kids are at fault. And this is likely not the first incident.

I doubt if the push had been "normal" this would have escalated. OP admitted that the pushing was unacceptable.

10 year old boys push when playing games. Sometimes they even tackle each other!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard without seeing the note but I think your reaction is a little off. To be honest I have a family member who has panic attacks and they are dreadful and miserable. If one of my kids saw someone having one as a result of their actions I would think they would be so upset and WANT to help. In fact my daughter was very indirectly responsible for a series of actions that set one off once and she was devastated. I think it’s odd the teacher feels the need to emphasize the panic attack - is your child not upset about this?

Sometimes you do something and the result is way worse than you think it’s going to be. Like if he had fallen and smashed a beloved item or something. I think you can emphasize to your son you understand this was not in any way his intention without making it sound like the only issue here is with the other kid.

Also, we learn from these things. This other kid probably doesn’t want to be touched at all, ever. And your son needs to not push people ever. Those things are separate from making amends, which I would assume would mostly be apologizing and maybe doing something kind.

The kid needs to learn to tolerate being touched. And OP son doesn’t have to stop being a kid and playing normally at PE. OP’s son does need to learn to give this kid space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

This is a great way to think about it. You don't get to minimize someone else's reaction to something just because you think it's a bit much. That's not the way the world works.

Well, you also don’t get to magnify the gravity of someone’s conduct if they behaved in a normal way but inadvertently harmed someone abnormally sensitive. It’s pretty clear the child has emotional challenges - I’ve seen it before where a child dramatically overreacts to normal situations.

This is really about how the school is handling it in placing all the blame on OP’s son and magnifying the gravity of what he did. OP’s not wrong to pick up on that. What I suspect is that the sensitive child’s parents don’t really know or accept what is going on with their kid, and based on the extremity of his reaction, believe that the other kids are at fault. And this is likely not the first incident.

I doubt if the push had been "normal" this would have escalated. OP admitted that the pushing was unacceptable.

10 year old boys push when playing games. Sometimes they even tackle each other!

And when they push a kid who didn’t want to be pushed, they suffer the consequences. Even when they are boys! What a world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard without seeing the note but I think your reaction is a little off. To be honest I have a family member who has panic attacks and they are dreadful and miserable. If one of my kids saw someone having one as a result of their actions I would think they would be so upset and WANT to help. In fact my daughter was very indirectly responsible for a series of actions that set one off once and she was devastated. I think it’s odd the teacher feels the need to emphasize the panic attack - is your child not upset about this?

Sometimes you do something and the result is way worse than you think it’s going to be. Like if he had fallen and smashed a beloved item or something. I think you can emphasize to your son you understand this was not in any way his intention without making it sound like the only issue here is with the other kid.

Also, we learn from these things. This other kid probably doesn’t want to be touched at all, ever. And your son needs to not push people ever. Those things are separate from making amends, which I would assume would mostly be apologizing and maybe doing something kind.

The kid needs to learn to tolerate being touched. And OP son doesn’t have to stop being a kid and playing normally at PE. OP’s son does need to learn to give this kid space.

No he doesn’t? There’s no requirement in life to “tolerate” being pushed. How often do people push you, day to day?