How to talk to dc about this scenario?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's this doctrine in tort law called "the eggshell plaintiff"...it means that you are liable for any injuries that your actions cause, no matter how unforeseen or unusual or uncommon, even if the average person would not suffer those injuries. I know they are 10 and this isn't a lawsuit or anything, but the teacher's take is literally the law in this country, so she's probably not so off base...

Can't your son be sorry without feeling shame?

Why can't he feel shame for causing a classmate to panic? Shame isn't permanent or a four letter word or a bad thing, it encourages us to be better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's this doctrine in tort law called "the eggshell plaintiff"...it means that you are liable for any injuries that your actions cause, no matter how unforeseen or unusual or uncommon, even if the average person would not suffer those injuries. I know they are 10 and this isn't a lawsuit or anything, but the teacher's take is literally the law in this country, so she's probably not so off base...

Can't your son be sorry without feeling shame?

Why can't he feel shame for causing a classmate to panic? Shame isn't permanent or a four letter word or a bad thing, it encourages us to be better.

shame is NOT how people learn to 'be better'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's this doctrine in tort law called "the eggshell plaintiff"...it means that you are liable for any injuries that your actions cause, no matter how unforeseen or unusual or uncommon, even if the average person would not suffer those injuries. I know they are 10 and this isn't a lawsuit or anything, but the teacher's take is literally the law in this country, so she's probably not so off base...

Can't your son be sorry without feeling shame?

Why can't he feel shame for causing a classmate to panic? Shame isn't permanent or a four letter word or a bad thing, it encourages us to be better.

shame is NOT how people learn to 'be better'.

Look around. Lack of shame has not improved people or society.

Yes, shame helps people do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wat if he accidentally bumped into the weird kid and he went into a full-blown panic attack? Accountable thrrr too?

Yes, but differently so. People accidentally do things all the time that result in harm to another person. Have you literally never encountered this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

This is a great way to think about it. You don't get to minimize someone else's reaction to something just because you think it's a bit much. That's not the way the world works.

Well, you also don’t get to magnify the gravity of someone’s conduct if they behaved in a normal way but inadvertently harmed someone abnormally sensitive. It’s pretty clear the child has emotional challenges - I’ve seen it before where a child dramatically overreacts to normal situations.

This is really about how the school is handling it in placing all the blame on OP’s son and magnifying the gravity of what he did. OP’s not wrong to pick up on that. What I suspect is that the sensitive child’s parents don’t really know or accept what is going on with their kid, and based on the extremity of his reaction, believe that the other kids are at fault. And this is likely not the first incident.

I doubt if the push had been "normal" this would have escalated. OP admitted that the pushing was unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

OP, your son WAS actually the cause of the boy's panic attack. He should make amends for the impact of his actions; his intent doesn't matter when it comes to being contrite and making amends - impact does. This school has it right!

[Anonymous]

It’s hard without seeing the note but I think your reaction is a little off. To be honest I have a family member who has panic attacks and they are dreadful and miserable. If one of my kids saw someone having one as a result of their actions I would think they would be so upset and WANT to help. In fact my daughter was very indirectly responsible for a series of actions that set one off once and she was devastated. I think it’s odd the teacher feels the need to emphasize the panic attack - is your child not upset about this?

Sometimes you do something and the result is way worse than you think it’s going to be. Like if he had fallen and smashed a beloved item or something. I think you can emphasize to your son you understand this was not in any way his intention without making it sound like the only issue here is with the other kid.

Also, we learn from these things. This other kid probably doesn’t want to be touched at all, ever. And your son needs to not push people ever. Those things are separate from making amends, which I would assume would mostly be apologizing and maybe doing something kind.

[Anonymous]

You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

So because OP's DC pushed the boy, he needs to avoid him forever?

Why can't he act like a regular person and just treat him regularly, going forward, without pushing him?

It turns out that some kids are fine with rough play and some aren't. And kids should know which are which. Sometimes they find out the hard way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wat if he accidentally bumped into the weird kid and he went into a full-blown panic attack? Accountable thrrr too?

Yes, just as you are accountable if you get into a car accident. Even if you think the other driver is "weird" (WTF?).

But there's nothing in the OP that suggests the pushing was accidental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

PS this doesn’t mean the pushing wasn’t wrong, obviously he needs to not push people. But he needs to be extra careful going forward to avoid this kid unless they’re good friends already.

A good friend with panic attacks? Support, support, support and accomodate.

An acquaintance who has a panic attack because of a playground shove and makes it a federal case with the authorities? Apologize and then avoid, avoid, avoid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ In the future if he inappropriately touches a girl in the hallway and she has a really negative reaction to it, are you also going to teach him that her reaction was 80% related to something else?

oh come on. this sounds like absolutely normal 10 year old boy play, with the other child being overly sensitive. yes OP’s child should take responsibility and learn to be more careful around this child, but there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with boys playing in a physical manner.

Except OPs son was breaking known rules about pushing.

If he had stolen a ball or scored on the goal and a kid had a panic attack I would
understand making it clear it wasn’t OPs sons fault. OPs son was pushing, and unfortunately the person he pushed was someone who suffers panic attacks. One of the many reasons there are rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

People like what? Who have anxiety or trauma?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

So because OP's DC pushed the boy, he needs to avoid him forever?

Why can't he act like a regular person and just treat him regularly, going forward, without pushing him?

It turns out that some kids are fine with rough play and some aren't. And kids should know which are which. Sometimes they find out the hard way.

If this is all it was, I doubt it would have happened this way. This kid would avoid the game or tell people. Or they would have the panic attack and then accept an apology from the kid without making it a huge thing. Some kids are just huge drama llamas and tattletales, and those are kids you need to avoid. This sounds like that to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to teach him that he should do whatever a responsible, trustworthy authority says to do to make amends and then give this kid a very wide berth going forward. If the counselor is above board and wants him to write a note or apologize in a meeting, completely fine. But if this kid demands some form of amends independently, it’s a no.

There are people like this throughout life and by far the best option is to just avoid them. Any low cost way to get away is better than trying to take a stand in this instance.

PS this doesn’t mean the pushing wasn’t wrong, obviously he needs to not push people. But he needs to be extra careful going forward to avoid this kid unless they’re good friends already.

A good friend with panic attacks? Support, support, support and accomodate.

An acquaintance who has a panic attack because of a playground shove and makes it a federal case with the authorities? Apologize and then avoid, avoid, avoid!

According to the OP, this wasn't a playground shove, it was during PE class. There are different rules for the playground and for PE class.