Just how much effort did the Middletons make to ensure Kate married William?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So can anyone give me a summary of how Carole Middleton is portrayed in this season of the Crown? I've actually never watched this show at all (except the Princess Alice episode one time, which was fantastic).

I would watch the whole final season if they have a cynically honest portrayal of William and Kate's "courtship" and reveal how sleazy Carole Middleton is.

I've only watched the first Kate episode, but I think they gave an interesting interpretation of what we know (Kate seems to have been put in William's path on purpose, given not just her school selection and timing, but also her choice in gap year programming).

- They show Kate as a teenager cutting out pictures of William from fan magazines, and an interesting conversation between young Kate and Carole in which Kate's like "uh, I'm not going to marry a prince" and Carole tells her to never sell herself short and then talks about how when she married Kate's dad, people viewed it as her marrying up because she was a flight attendant ("air hostess") but then Carole created a successful business and Kate's dad wound up leaving his job to work for it, so maybe he's the one who married up. It was actually a pretty interesting scene and I like how it sets up the idea that even though Kate is not on William's "level" in terms of aristocracy, she might have things to offer him that no one else can. This is some good nuance IMO.

- Then there are a series of scenes where Carole is in her car or in her house and listening to/watching press conferences with Prince William explaining his school plans, including his gap year and where he would be spending it. We later find out that Carole pushed Kate to make the exact same choices -- same school, same gap year, same programs. That part is pretty unflattering to Carole.

- Then we see Kate at university and one thing they show is that she is not trying to "catch" William really. But she is in the same course as he is and they are in the same classes. They portray Kate as being extremely popular with the boys and a lot of the boys pursuing her, and William as one of the ones interested in her but she doesn't really do anything to encourage this interest.

- However, we see that they have a ton of overlap in their habits -- both runners, both swimmers, same classes. So William sees Kate a LOT. They leave this somewhat ambiguous. There's clearly the implication that Carole may have encouraged Kate to become sporty and outdoorsy because William is those things. But you also get the sense that Kate genuinely likes that stuff and is good at it. (I'm talking entirely about the characters here, I get these are not the real people, just explaining what is portrayed). William's interest seems to grow specifically because he sees her a lot but she is NOT one of the girls throwing herself at him. And there are plenty of those.

- Then we see a somewhat ridiculous scene in which William approaches Kate in the library, they get flirty, but then William's then-girlfriend (a made up character who's kind of an amalgam of some real life GFs of William) shows up and gets annoyed and is kind of yelling at William and putting Kate down, when suddenly another girl comes over and asks William for his autograph and he barks at her. And then kind of hilariously, both Kate and the GF instantly turn on him, tell him that was rude, AND tell him that it's ridiculous to whine about being the object of so much ogling because that's how girls feel all the time (I have extremely mixed feelings about this scene -- it's ridiculous and funny but also super heavy handed, and I actually think comparing being a young woman to being the crown Prince is not the best comparison).

- Kate starts dating another guy (Rupert) and we see William kind of pining after her and being lonely. Then he approaches her at some point to apologize for his behavior in the library and they are on good terms but she still has a boyfriend.

- Then they both go home for the holidays and Carole is very nonplussed about Kate's boyfriend, and Kate and Carole have it out over the fact that Carole obviously wants Kate to date William. Like it's very literal, they don't dance around it. And Kate accuses Carole of engineering the whole thing and pushing Kate to go to St. Andrews instead of Edinburgh, to take a gap year, and to go on programs where William might be. And Carole is like "so? don't underestimate yourself" which is either awesome or gross or both.

- Meanwhile William is at Balmoral and the word there is that school is going poorly for him, he's lonely and classes aren't going well, plus he's mooning over some girl who doesn't like him (per Harry). There's a scene where the queen is grandmotherly and William comes off well here. But you get the sense he really likes Kate and thinks he screwed it up and feels bad.

- Then at the end of the episode, we see William getting a text from Kate saying "please don't leave uni" and that's it. It's not clear if Kate sends that text because it's really how she feels, or because her mom made her, or if she was convinced by her mom's arguments that she should pursue William and not "sell herself short." We don't see her send it, so you are supposed to draw your own conclusions.

So: definitely portrays Carole as social climbing and orchestrating a lot of stuff to get Kate near William, but also implies that the interest between them was genuine and based on shared interests, not some vast conspiracy of Carole's. I actually like how nuanced this is and the degree to which it shows that they all have competing interests here. Kate genuinely had a crush on William (sorry but, who wouldn't?) and I do think she shared his interests in art and outdoorsy stuff. But I also think she would never have flirted with him or even interacted with him were it not for her mom's orchestrations. William, to some degree, is interested in Kate because other guys are, which is a nice parallel to why Kate is interested in him. Carole wants her daughter to marry a prince, yes, but she also wants Kate to reach high and not assume these aristocrats at school are better than her just because she's not the daughter of an earl or a duke or something, which is actually a perfectly great thing for a middle class parent like Carole to tell her ambitious daughter.

I found it worth watching and liked it more than I expected to based on reviews of the season. We'll see if that holds up in subsequent episodes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t it be both an advantages marriage but also one where love blossomed? If you’ve done any research at all, you’d learn that even the more reputable sources ( Tina Brown) have discovered that Carole and Kate aggressively pursued William. It is also well known, that despite gossip to the contrary, William appears to be incredibly fond of the Middletons and loves Kate. Did he reportedly have a wandering eye when they were younger? Allegedly, but, he would always come back to Kate and felt safe and loved in the close-knit package of her family. His attraction to Kate had a lot to do with her normal and happy upbringing. It also helped that she and her family were accepting of and in fact perhaps keen to do whatever needed to be done for their daughter to marry a prince!

The aristos like Diana herself would be too self important to take the job seriously or put up with the limelight and pressure. Kate has a sense of humility and gratefulness about her role and plays her part admirably and with great intensity.

Lastly, Kate is beautiful, mentally stable, smart, ambitious and a good mom. All the qualities I’m sure made her a good match for William.

This is a case of both can be true. Either way, they seem happy.

You have never experienced real love if you write something like this.

“Real love” can be highly overrated.

[Anonymous]

Kate and Pippa were known as the Wisteria Sisters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an age-old ploy to put pretty girls in front of the King and see what happens.

I like Kate and I think she is a perfect HRH. She understands the assignment.

I'm ok with it too, as long as all these BRF fans understand that this was a cynical, pragmatic marriage that seems functional (good for them!) and represents Britain well on the world stage (good for Britain!). It's a business relationship between Kate and William IMO, and again - if it works for them, great! I'm glad Kate Middleton takes her constitutional role seriously because that's her job in the government.

It's just not a marriage of love, and it's dangerous to see this as some sort of ideal of love.

Same. Honestly, I enjoy her dresses and I think that's kind of her job: wear great clothes, represent British fashion (which is why Kate mostly wears British designers). Fair enough. That's the role that society needs her to play.

Real love is something that happens outside the celebrity world. Celebrity couples are for representing the financial and political interests of an industry or an institution or a nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can anyone give me a summary of how Carole Middleton is portrayed in this season of the Crown? I've actually never watched this show at all (except the Princess Alice episode one time, which was fantastic).

I would watch the whole final season if they have a cynically honest portrayal of William and Kate's "courtship" and reveal how sleazy Carole Middleton is.

I've only watched the first Kate episode, but I think they gave an interesting interpretation of what we know (Kate seems to have been put in William's path on purpose, given not just her school selection and timing, but also her choice in gap year programming).

- They show Kate as a teenager cutting out pictures of William from fan magazines, and an interesting conversation between young Kate and Carole in which Kate's like "uh, I'm not going to marry a prince" and Carole tells her to never sell herself short and then talks about how when she married Kate's dad, people viewed it as her marrying up because she was a flight attendant ("air hostess") but then Carole created a successful business and Kate's dad wound up leaving his job to work for it, so maybe he's the one who married up. It was actually a pretty interesting scene and I like how it sets up the idea that even though Kate is not on William's "level" in terms of aristocracy, she might have things to offer him that no one else can. This is some good nuance IMO.

- Then there are a series of scenes where Carole is in her car or in her house and listening to/watching press conferences with Prince William explaining his school plans, including his gap year and where he would be spending it. We later find out that Carole pushed Kate to make the exact same choices -- same school, same gap year, same programs. That part is pretty unflattering to Carole.

- Then we see Kate at university and one thing they show is that she is not trying to "catch" William really. But she is in the same course as he is and they are in the same classes. They portray Kate as being extremely popular with the boys and a lot of the boys pursuing her, and William as one of the ones interested in her but she doesn't really do anything to encourage this interest.

- However, we see that they have a ton of overlap in their habits -- both runners, both swimmers, same classes. So William sees Kate a LOT. They leave this somewhat ambiguous. There's clearly the implication that Carole may have encouraged Kate to become sporty and outdoorsy because William is those things. But you also get the sense that Kate genuinely likes that stuff and is good at it. (I'm talking entirely about the characters here, I get these are not the real people, just explaining what is portrayed). William's interest seems to grow specifically because he sees her a lot but she is NOT one of the girls throwing herself at him. And there are plenty of those.

- Then we see a somewhat ridiculous scene in which William approaches Kate in the library, they get flirty, but then William's then-girlfriend (a made up character who's kind of an amalgam of some real life GFs of William) shows up and gets annoyed and is kind of yelling at William and putting Kate down, when suddenly another girl comes over and asks William for his autograph and he barks at her. And then kind of hilariously, both Kate and the GF instantly turn on him, tell him that was rude, AND tell him that it's ridiculous to whine about being the object of so much ogling because that's how girls feel all the time (I have extremely mixed feelings about this scene -- it's ridiculous and funny but also super heavy handed, and I actually think comparing being a young woman to being the crown Prince is not the best comparison).

- Kate starts dating another guy (Rupert) and we see William kind of pining after her and being lonely. Then he approaches her at some point to apologize for his behavior in the library and they are on good terms but she still has a boyfriend.

- Then they both go home for the holidays and Carole is very nonplussed about Kate's boyfriend, and Kate and Carole have it out over the fact that Carole obviously wants Kate to date William. Like it's very literal, they don't dance around it. And Kate accuses Carole of engineering the whole thing and pushing Kate to go to St. Andrews instead of Edinburgh, to take a gap year, and to go on programs where William might be. And Carole is like "so? don't underestimate yourself" which is either awesome or gross or both.

- Meanwhile William is at Balmoral and the word there is that school is going poorly for him, he's lonely and classes aren't going well, plus he's mooning over some girl who doesn't like him (per Harry). There's a scene where the queen is grandmotherly and William comes off well here. But you get the sense he really likes Kate and thinks he screwed it up and feels bad.

- Then at the end of the episode, we see William getting a text from Kate saying "please don't leave uni" and that's it. It's not clear if Kate sends that text because it's really how she feels, or because her mom made her, or if she was convinced by her mom's arguments that she should pursue William and not "sell herself short." We don't see her send it, so you are supposed to draw your own conclusions.

So: definitely portrays Carole as social climbing and orchestrating a lot of stuff to get Kate near William, but also implies that the interest between them was genuine and based on shared interests, not some vast conspiracy of Carole's. I actually like how nuanced this is and the degree to which it shows that they all have competing interests here. Kate genuinely had a crush on William (sorry but, who wouldn't?) and I do think she shared his interests in art and outdoorsy stuff. But I also think she would never have flirted with him or even interacted with him were it not for her mom's orchestrations. William, to some degree, is interested in Kate because other guys are, which is a nice parallel to why Kate is interested in him. Carole wants her daughter to marry a prince, yes, but she also wants Kate to reach high and not assume these aristocrats at school are better than her just because she's not the daughter of an earl or a duke or something, which is actually a perfectly great thing for a middle class parent like Carole to tell her ambitious daughter.

I found it worth watching and liked it more than I expected to based on reviews of the season. We'll see if that holds up in subsequent episodes.

thank you, this was a great summary. Will check out the season this weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t it be both an advantages marriage but also one where love blossomed? If you’ve done any research at all, you’d learn that even the more reputable sources ( Tina Brown) have discovered that Carole and Kate aggressively pursued William. It is also well known, that despite gossip to the contrary, William appears to be incredibly fond of the Middletons and loves Kate. Did he reportedly have a wandering eye when they were younger? Allegedly, but, he would always come back to Kate and felt safe and loved in the close-knit package of her family. His attraction to Kate had a lot to do with her normal and happy upbringing. It also helped that she and her family were accepting of and in fact perhaps keen to do whatever needed to be done for their daughter to marry a prince!

The aristos like Diana herself would be too self important to take the job seriously or put up with the limelight and pressure. Kate has a sense of humility and gratefulness about her role and plays her part admirably and with great intensity.

Lastly, Kate is beautiful, mentally stable, smart, ambitious and a good mom. All the qualities I’m sure made her a good match for William.

This is a case of both can be true. Either way, they seem happy.

You have never experienced real love if you write something like this.

“Real love” can be highly overrated.

It's hard, but it's worth it. DH and I are not very rich - we both left affluent but abusive families to be together. We had to give up a lot of ego to open our hearts and we are still learning, every day, how to be better people for each other. We have to break through a lot of childhood conditioning and although our marriage is not glamorous, it's also definitely not built on appearances. I am loved for who I am with all my flaws and inadequacies, even if I don't look as hot as Kate Middleton does in a dress. And I love my DH for who he is, even though he sometimes feels less than because he's a college dropout and I have 2 degrees. I'll take my flawed and annoying DH over Prince William any day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carole Middleton spent a LOT of money trying to impress the castle-owning set for years throughout Kate's pursuit of William.

She would turn up at aristo picnics with a really luxe hamper from Harrods, while all the other aristos were eating basic ham-and-cheese sandwiches and sneered at her try-hard Harrods hamper.

At one point, when Kate didn't get an invite from William to stay with his family for Christmas (this was well after the college years), Carole Middleton RENTED A STATELY HOME for the Middletons to have their own desperate Castle Christmas.

This is just some of the stuff we know about. But it's absolutely clear to be that this match was engineered and manipulated into happening. William broke up with Kate multiple times to chase after other girls, including girls who actually came from royal or noble families. For whatever reason, those attempts didn't work out.

But there was Kate, always willing to be the puppet he wanted, always willing to zealously watch his polo matches even though she was allergic to horses and then give him a play-by-play breakdown of his athletic feats after the match. This is the kind of attention he wants from his wife, and people who attended these polo matches reported that Kate didn't even take breaks to eat food.

She said she had to notice everything about William's game so she could have a conversation about it with him afterwards.

Some f**king love story.

This

[Anonymous]

Everyone wanted to manipulate their daughter in to marrying William. The best manipulator won

[Anonymous]

What I also find fascinating about Kate is that when I discovered she was William's girlfriend, I was shocked at how...normal and down to earth looking she was.





She is not a prissy glossy glamour girl. She has no makeup, unstyled look with rugged jeans and comfortable shoes.

I'd never have thought a prince would go for that!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I also find fascinating about Kate is that when I discovered she was William's girlfriend, I was shocked at how...normal and down to earth looking she was.





She is not a prissy glossy glamour girl. She has no makeup, unstyled look with rugged jeans and comfortable shoes.

I'd never have thought a prince would go for that!!

I loved Kate in this era

[Anonymous]

Why does everyone assume Kate was her mom's pawn? Can't she just be a young woman who thought it would be fun if she went to the same university as a prince? Then they turn out to to have a lot in common, become friends and then more than friends?

I have no doubt Carole was a social climber. So are a lot of people (DCUM is most definitely no exception). I can't imagine English society is easy to navigate and she probably got cut down a few times along the way. But to suggest she has the ability to orchestrate her daughter becoming queen is silly. The best thing they did to orchestrate Kate and William was to have a great set of genes and raise a good daughter. The Middletons seem like decent people who have handled the scrutiny of public life gracefully.

[Anonymous]

Kate is a catch and Will out kicked his coverage by landing her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new season of the Crown seems to shed light on the Kate and Wills story again and I’m curious what people think. Just how much of a social climber was Kate?

I've heard this season in particular is nauseatingly inaccurate and extremely fictionalized to pander to Netfix's typical audience.

When the ghost of Diana appeared this series jumped the shark, and that was before any of this Will/Kate nonsense.

+1 They should have ended it there. It’s unwatchable now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I also find fascinating about Kate is that when I discovered she was William's girlfriend, I was shocked at how...normal and down to earth looking she was.





She is not a prissy glossy glamour girl. She has no makeup, unstyled look with rugged jeans and comfortable shoes.

I'd never have thought a prince would go for that!!

I loved Kate in this era

Prince Harry says in his book that what people do not know about Kate is that she has a crazy and silly sense of humor. Looking at her college pictures, I can see it.




So fun and unassuming. Love that she doesn't have processed hair and heavy makeup and contouring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t it be both an advantages marriage but also one where love blossomed? If you’ve done any research at all, you’d learn that even the more reputable sources ( Tina Brown) have discovered that Carole and Kate aggressively pursued William. It is also well known, that despite gossip to the contrary, William appears to be incredibly fond of the Middletons and loves Kate. Did he reportedly have a wandering eye when they were younger? Allegedly, but, he would always come back to Kate and felt safe and loved in the close-knit package of her family. His attraction to Kate had a lot to do with her normal and happy upbringing. It also helped that she and her family were accepting of and in fact perhaps keen to do whatever needed to be done for their daughter to marry a prince!

The aristos like Diana herself would be too self important to take the job seriously or put up with the limelight and pressure. Kate has a sense of humility and gratefulness about her role and plays her part admirably and with great intensity.

Lastly, Kate is beautiful, mentally stable, smart, ambitious and a good mom. All the qualities I’m sure made her a good match for William.

This is a case of both can be true. Either way, they seem happy.

You have never experienced real love if you write something like this.

This response is silly.