BOE members ask to add elementary schools to Woodward, Crown, Damascus boundary studies

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

But the more recent boundary decisions have taken desegregation into account. MCPS has no say in housing policies. It did what it could to desegregate schools, hence the F*up boundaries for some of these schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

Not as much as they will look at diversity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

This is a joke. Back when these boundaries were created, the MCPS population was overwhelmingly white. Trying to scatter the small number of blacks to all of the schools would have created a massive busing effort and bizarre boundaries. Now they will have the same problem scattering the small number of white kids around. Stop looking for evil where there is none.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

This is a joke. Back when these boundaries were created, the MCPS population was overwhelmingly white. Trying to scatter the small number of blacks to all of the schools would have created a massive busing effort and bizarre boundaries. Now they will have the same problem scattering the small number of white kids around. Stop looking for evil where there is none.

They literally did this, as part of desegregation in the late 1950s and early 1960s. And there are plenty of people still around who remember it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

In addition to the inevitable wacky HS boundaries, I cannot understand how this is going to play out without MS utilization getting totally screwed up. It makes sense in terms of HS boundaries to pull northern Wootton feeders into Crown, but doing so is going to make middle school utilization far worse, because Frost and/or CJ would become more underutilized while whichever MS those kids go to will become immediately overcrowded.

MCPS really should have planned a new middle school to give themselves more flexibility.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

In addition to the inevitable wacky HS boundaries, I cannot understand how this is going to play out without MS utilization getting totally screwed up. It makes sense in terms of HS boundaries to pull northern Wootton feeders into Crown, but doing so is going to make middle school utilization far worse, because Frost and/or CJ would become more underutilized while whichever MS those kids go to will become immediately overcrowded.

MCPS really should have planned a new middle school to give themselves more flexibility.

They don't necessarily have to change the MS assignments. Crown could end up with several split articulated middle schools feeding to it

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

In addition to the inevitable wacky HS boundaries, I cannot understand how this is going to play out without MS utilization getting totally screwed up. It makes sense in terms of HS boundaries to pull northern Wootton feeders into Crown, but doing so is going to make middle school utilization far worse, because Frost and/or CJ would become more underutilized while whichever MS those kids go to will become immediately overcrowded.

MCPS really should have planned a new middle school to give themselves more flexibility.

Wootton itself is not overcrowded. Pulling any out of it would make it underutilized. But swapping some areas of Gaithersburg or QO with Wootton would only make much longer busing. MCPS could add ritchie park back to wootton but that only makes both Wootton and RM less diverse.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

In addition to the inevitable wacky HS boundaries, I cannot understand how this is going to play out without MS utilization getting totally screwed up. It makes sense in terms of HS boundaries to pull northern Wootton feeders into Crown, but doing so is going to make middle school utilization far worse, because Frost and/or CJ would become more underutilized while whichever MS those kids go to will become immediately overcrowded.

MCPS really should have planned a new middle school to give themselves more flexibility.

They don't necessarily have to change the MS assignments. Crown could end up with several split articulated middle schools feeding to it

Agree.

Crown will have a student capacity of 2,219. Hopefully they won't try to fill to capacity immediately and leaving it at 90% would make sense to accommodate +/- variations.

A minimum of 1,403 students to reduce overcrowding is expected - 478 QO, 373 NW, 368 RM, and 184 Gaithersburg projected in the CIP for overcapacity. All of those schools are in the Top-10 overcrowded County High Schools. That leaves 816 (100% day-1 utilization) to 594 (90% utilization) slots to pull.

My guess is MCPS needs to pull students into Crown from:
- Northern portions of Cabin John MS (Wootton HS) - Churchill also needs to shed 157 students, so the losses at Wootton (which isn't projected to be overcrowded) will probably absorb some of those students and Wootton boundaries would shift south.
- West of 270 portion of Julius West MS (Richard Montgomery HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk due to RM overcrowding and that it's very close
- West and North portions of Frost MS (Wootton HS) - I think Travillah will move to Crown so Frost can pick up adjacent students
- West boundary of Forest Oak MS (Gaithersburg HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it's walkers
- Eastern portion of Ridgeview MS (Quince Orchard HS) - likely due to school proximity
- Lakeland Parks MS (both QO and Northwest HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it reduces overcrowding at two schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

In addition to the inevitable wacky HS boundaries, I cannot understand how this is going to play out without MS utilization getting totally screwed up. It makes sense in terms of HS boundaries to pull northern Wootton feeders into Crown, but doing so is going to make middle school utilization far worse, because Frost and/or CJ would become more underutilized while whichever MS those kids go to will become immediately overcrowded.

MCPS really should have planned a new middle school to give themselves more flexibility.

They don't necessarily have to change the MS assignments. Crown could end up with several split articulated middle schools feeding to it

Agree.

Crown will have a student capacity of 2,219. Hopefully they won't try to fill to capacity immediately and leaving it at 90% would make sense to accommodate +/- variations.

A minimum of 1,403 students to reduce overcrowding is expected - 478 QO, 373 NW, 368 RM, and 184 Gaithersburg projected in the CIP for overcapacity. All of those schools are in the Top-10 overcrowded County High Schools. That leaves 816 (100% day-1 utilization) to 594 (90% utilization) slots to pull.

My guess is MCPS needs to pull students into Crown from:
- Northern portions of Cabin John MS (Wootton HS) - Churchill also needs to shed 157 students, so the losses at Wootton (which isn't projected to be overcrowded) will probably absorb some of those students and Wootton boundaries would shift south.
- West of 270 portion of Julius West MS (Richard Montgomery HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk due to RM overcrowding and that it's very close
- West and North portions of Frost MS (Wootton HS) - I think Travillah will move to Crown so Frost can pick up adjacent students
- West boundary of Forest Oak MS (Gaithersburg HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it's walkers
- Eastern portion of Ridgeview MS (Quince Orchard HS) - likely due to school proximity
- Lakeland Parks MS (both QO and Northwest HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it reduces overcrowding at two schools

The projection of overcrowding from last year’s CIP was significantly higher. I remember QO has 600+, RM400+, Gaithersburg 300+, Northwest 300+. Is the enrollment down? Maybe there isn’t much overcrowding in a few years if the trend continues.
I also recall they plan to build a magnet program in crown, which would take about 400 slots (100 per year).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

In addition to the inevitable wacky HS boundaries, I cannot understand how this is going to play out without MS utilization getting totally screwed up. It makes sense in terms of HS boundaries to pull northern Wootton feeders into Crown, but doing so is going to make middle school utilization far worse, because Frost and/or CJ would become more underutilized while whichever MS those kids go to will become immediately overcrowded.

MCPS really should have planned a new middle school to give themselves more flexibility.

They don't necessarily have to change the MS assignments. Crown could end up with several split articulated middle schools feeding to it

Agree.

Crown will have a student capacity of 2,219. Hopefully they won't try to fill to capacity immediately and leaving it at 90% would make sense to accommodate +/- variations.

A minimum of 1,403 students to reduce overcrowding is expected - 478 QO, 373 NW, 368 RM, and 184 Gaithersburg projected in the CIP for overcapacity. All of those schools are in the Top-10 overcrowded County High Schools. That leaves 816 (100% day-1 utilization) to 594 (90% utilization) slots to pull.

My guess is MCPS needs to pull students into Crown from:
- Northern portions of Cabin John MS (Wootton HS) - Churchill also needs to shed 157 students, so the losses at Wootton (which isn't projected to be overcrowded) will probably absorb some of those students and Wootton boundaries would shift south.
- West of 270 portion of Julius West MS (Richard Montgomery HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk due to RM overcrowding and that it's very close
- West and North portions of Frost MS (Wootton HS) - I think Travillah will move to Crown so Frost can pick up adjacent students
- West boundary of Forest Oak MS (Gaithersburg HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it's walkers
- Eastern portion of Ridgeview MS (Quince Orchard HS) - likely due to school proximity
- Lakeland Parks MS (both QO and Northwest HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it reduces overcrowding at two schools

This is all well and good but you didn't especially strive to make schools more diverse in your analysis so it can't be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That leaves 816 (100% day-1 utilization) to 594 (90% utilization) slots to pull.

My guess is MCPS needs to pull students into Crown from:
- Northern portions of Cabin John MS (Wootton HS) - Churchill also needs to shed 157 students, so the losses at Wootton (which isn't projected to be overcrowded) will probably absorb some of those students and Wootton boundaries would shift south.
- West of 270 portion of Julius West MS (Richard Montgomery HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk due to RM overcrowding and that it's very close
- West and North portions of Frost MS (Wootton HS) - I think Travillah will move to Crown so Frost can pick up adjacent students
- West boundary of Forest Oak MS (Gaithersburg HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it's walkers
- Eastern portion of Ridgeview MS (Quince Orchard HS) - likely due to school proximity
- Lakeland Parks MS (both QO and Northwest HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it reduces overcrowding at two schools

The northern portion of CJMS and Travilah alone probably contribute 700+ students, and your list doesn't seem to mention the kids in downtown Crown that are zoned to Fallsmead and Wootton. In total, this list looks like it constitutes several times more than the seats they need to fill, unless I am misunderstanding.

Also I wasn't sure what you meant by "I think Travillah will move to Crown so Frost can pick up adjacent students", could you explain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be very interesting to see how things are changed up. I am zoned to Cabin John, which is geographically quite far, and ithe school is split between multiple high schools. There are other middle schools that are closer, but they don't seem to have capacity. It will take a lot of shuffling to make some of the weirdly zoned areas make sense.

The Cabin John MS boundaries are bonkers.

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/CabinJohnMS.pdf

Lakelands MS and Ridgeview MS are both much closer for those two northernmost islands. One of the benefits of a larger boundary study is the ability to do a lot of shuffling.

And now that the BOE will especially strive to make more diverse schools, who knows where they'll send them?

Even if they go purely based on proximity, that CJMS boundary needs to change. That is one craptastic boundary.

You do know the boundary policy was changed to make that impossible, right?

I know that they still look at proximity.

But they don't have to especially strive to look at proximity like they do diversity. So all the schools in the CJ cluster are in danger of being busted even farther than they are now for diversity.

But, they still have to look at proximity. MCPS doesn't have enough bus drivers to keep busing kids further and further.

They don' have to because many of the existing boundaries are also suboptimal in terms of proximity and created to enforce segregation.

? Seems they were created to force desegregation. Have you seen some of the boundaries?

Anyways, they can't continue to create disjointed boundaries because it will require even *more* bus drivers. They had a hard enough to staffing bus drivers for the existing routes.

The PP was correct. Many were created at a time when redlining was popular and were made to keep the poor out of affluent boundaries. Just take a look at Wootton's boundary. The school is in a far corner. It even has a disjoint island and most of the residents live closer to other HS. Sure, after 40+ years the impact of that boundary is probably different than its original intent to segregate but it really makes no sense.

When Churchill boundary is right next to Wootton high school and Richard Montgomery HS is also close by, there is not much area left to Wootton to be close. Just look at the boundary map, you’ll understand wootton HS being in the corner of its boundary is unavoidable no matter how to redistrict.

It's because the southwestern part of the county has to be sent north or east to one of the high schools (only Poolesville is to the west). So you ended up with the River Road-adjacent neighborhoods being divided between Northwest, Wootton, Churchill and Whitman.

These high schools were built too close together so some of them will have to end up being in the far corner of their boundaries. Gaithersburg HS is also in its far corner. Now building crown HS so close to both Gaithersburg and Wootton will only make boundaries look even more wacky.

In addition to the inevitable wacky HS boundaries, I cannot understand how this is going to play out without MS utilization getting totally screwed up. It makes sense in terms of HS boundaries to pull northern Wootton feeders into Crown, but doing so is going to make middle school utilization far worse, because Frost and/or CJ would become more underutilized while whichever MS those kids go to will become immediately overcrowded.

MCPS really should have planned a new middle school to give themselves more flexibility.

They don't necessarily have to change the MS assignments. Crown could end up with several split articulated middle schools feeding to it

Agree.

Crown will have a student capacity of 2,219. Hopefully they won't try to fill to capacity immediately and leaving it at 90% would make sense to accommodate +/- variations.

A minimum of 1,403 students to reduce overcrowding is expected - 478 QO, 373 NW, 368 RM, and 184 Gaithersburg projected in the CIP for overcapacity. All of those schools are in the Top-10 overcrowded County High Schools. That leaves 816 (100% day-1 utilization) to 594 (90% utilization) slots to pull.

My guess is MCPS needs to pull students into Crown from:
- Northern portions of Cabin John MS (Wootton HS) - Churchill also needs to shed 157 students, so the losses at Wootton (which isn't projected to be overcrowded) will probably absorb some of those students and Wootton boundaries would shift south.
- West of 270 portion of Julius West MS (Richard Montgomery HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk due to RM overcrowding and that it's very close
- West and North portions of Frost MS (Wootton HS) - I think Travillah will move to Crown so Frost can pick up adjacent students
- West boundary of Forest Oak MS (Gaithersburg HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it's walkers
- Eastern portion of Ridgeview MS (Quince Orchard HS) - likely due to school proximity
- Lakeland Parks MS (both QO and Northwest HS) - this one I think is a slam dunk since it reduces overcrowding at two schools

The projection of overcrowding from last year’s CIP was significantly higher. I remember QO has 600+, RM400+, Gaithersburg 300+, Northwest 300+. Is the enrollment down? Maybe there isn’t much overcrowding in a few years if the trend continues.
I also recall they plan to build a magnet program in crown, which would take about 400 slots (100 per year).

Check CIP '25 Appendix E (https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/planning/cipmaster/). If they're using a different document, please post the link since someone may be fudging the numbers in their own favor. If that's happening MCPS and the BOE need to be called out on it. Putting a Magnet at Crown would make sense, since it will help deflect recent criticism of their "two corners Magnet" approach and provide more accessibility. It also fits nicely with the 594 capacity number. It's a good move actually so kudo's to whomever came up with it?