Family annoyance - passive aggressive "niceness"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks to those of you who seem to get it.

It isn't passive aggressive all the time, though sometimes it is.

It is repressed, and muted, and there is never a genuine expression of emotion. Just careful control to not have a feeling, or a want, and never to express a feeling, or a want.

Like politeness that left me constantly guessing if I was ever doing the right thing as a child, and guised politeness when I started dating an abusive alcoholic -- my family could never say anything "bad" about anyone or anything no matter how awful something might be.

So everything is pretend, and wanting what's best, and when my ex was arrested for assaulting me and my kids, it was silence.

And sometimes it's just tiring to be left trying to guess even though as an adult I have my own circle, the little ways their patterns play out exhaust me sometimes, and annoy me that this really is just how it is with them. Mostly though it's my brother repeating all of the patterns that I find hardest.

It just makes things not feel real. Like it's all just for show. Like literally my mother said a few months ago that she had never ever in her life started an argument. (Because that is not "nice")

Thanks for the background, OP. I honestly struggled to understand why you were so bothered by the situations you mentioned (particularly re: your brother and the breakfast-that came across as he and his wife not wanting you to feel stressed out) but now I get why you were triggered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I get it that people that don't have families like this likely won't understand. I'm asking people who do. People who do will get what it's like.

OP, I think if this were actually a problem and that they were truly passive aggressive (instead of merely cluelessly annoying) you would have much, much better examples. There’s someone who responded on the second page about a pregnancy/baby name issue that is actually problematic.

And if you had stronger material, you would have led with it, so don’t bother backtracking and fabricating now. It sounds like the problem is you.

You called it on page 2.

[Anonymous]

What OP is describing is passsive, but not passive aggressive. I think part of her problem is in the framing because she's not defining the issue properly. Other posters in the thread have described truely passive agressive behavior.

I was raised by US southerners and have a good friend who is Midwest-nice and this is exactly how life rolls out with them. Is it sometimes tedious to do the dance, sure, but it's the one they know.

[Anonymous]

How do you know your brother wants the big breakfast? So many people want simple and small first thing. A big greasy breakfast implies a big mess and are he and his wife then indebted to you and charged with all the dishes and cleanup? I can see them wishing you'd rather not in that case and finally telling you to just skip.

[Anonymous]

If that is passive aggtessive bring it on! Can we switch? Mine suck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks to those of you who seem to get it.

It isn't passive aggressive all the time, though sometimes it is.

It is repressed, and muted, and there is never a genuine expression of emotion. Just careful control to not have a feeling, or a want, and never to express a feeling, or a want.

Like politeness that left me constantly guessing if I was ever doing the right thing as a child, and guised politeness when I started dating an abusive alcoholic -- my family could never say anything "bad" about anyone or anything no matter how awful something might be.

So everything is pretend, and wanting what's best, and when my ex was arrested for assaulting me and my kids, it was silence.

And sometimes it's just tiring to be left trying to guess even though as an adult I have my own circle, the little ways their patterns play out exhaust me sometimes, and annoy me that this really is just how it is with them. Mostly though it's my brother repeating all of the patterns that I find hardest.

It just makes things not feel real. Like it's all just for show. Like literally my mother said a few months ago that she had never ever in her life started an argument. (Because that is not "nice")

I think this example is really unfair of you, OP. It’s very difficult to watch your adult child enter into and maintain an abusive relationship and there is very little a parent can do besides reiterate how much they love you. They couldn’t have known whether if they spoke out against your ex, you would return to him and blame them for their words, cut them off etc. You seem to be judging them for not knowing how to respond, and yet you were the one in that relationship.

Your anger at your family seems really misplaced. They might not express themselves the way you do, but that doesn’t make their personalities wrong. You need to learn how to tolerate other people’s differences and not to make assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Maybe the brother doesn’t want to feel like they need to stuff themselves with some huge breakfast that was a performance to prepare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

+1

Same - the midwestern nice is taking expression of emotion as complaining. No thanks.

Yes! Yes! I worked with a woman like this! It was her and her team's JOB to review something and then during the meeting, discuss her team's findings. They said everything was good. Smiles all around. Then after the others left, she said, "Well, I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but this is wrong, that's wrong, " etc
Eyeroll

Niceness is toxic. It's not to be confused with kindness. Letting some one know there's an issue is kindness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks to those of you who seem to get it.

It isn't passive aggressive all the time, though sometimes it is.

It is repressed, and muted, and there is never a genuine expression of emotion. Just careful control to not have a feeling, or a want, and never to express a feeling, or a want.

Like politeness that left me constantly guessing if I was ever doing the right thing as a child, and guised politeness when I started dating an abusive alcoholic -- my family could never say anything "bad" about anyone or anything no matter how awful something might be.

So everything is pretend, and wanting what's best, and when my ex was arrested for assaulting me and my kids, it was silence.

And sometimes it's just tiring to be left trying to guess even though as an adult I have my own circle, the little ways their patterns play out exhaust me sometimes, and annoy me that this really is just how it is with them. Mostly though it's my brother repeating all of the patterns that I find hardest.

It just makes things not feel real. Like it's all just for show. Like literally my mother said a few months ago that she had never ever in her life started an argument. (Because that is not "nice")

I think this example is really unfair of you, OP. It’s very difficult to watch your adult child enter into and maintain an abusive relationship and there is very little a parent can do besides reiterate how much they love you. They couldn’t have known whether if they spoke out against your ex, you would return to him and blame them for their words, cut them off etc. You seem to be judging them for not knowing how to respond, and yet you were the one in that relationship.

Your anger at your family seems really misplaced. They might not express themselves the way you do, but that doesn’t make their personalities wrong. You need to learn how to tolerate other people’s differences and not to make assumptions.

OP here, I agree but that's the thing - there was no "we love you". Also never in my life heard I'm proud of you or good job. I don't really feel angry about the minor examples but you are right that I am not tolerant of their differences. Maybe sometimes I could tolerate when it's a matter of preference and the outcome is annoyance.

In general I don't have tolerance for them. They are racist and homophobic (believe interracial and gay relationships are sin, wrong, burn in hell situations) and even stuff like yoga - my SIL did yoga and my dad told my brother yoga was sin and my brother told SIL no more yoga and she quit it.

I justify not respecting them. I don't tolerate the more severe issues in my house, around me or my kids. But it definitely affects my ability to tolerate all the little things because to me, they're not just little things. They're symbolic of much bigger attitudes, issues and toxic christianity. Everything is on an agenda to be christian-like so god sees how good they are. Which I do sometimes feel compassion for, but sometimes the constancy is just exhausting and upsetting.

I think you're right that my reactions and emotions are misplaced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m PP. I would NEVER say, “hand me that baby” or “come to grandma.” (I’m not a grandma but something similar.) That makes me cringe. Yes, I want to hold the baby but only if the new mom wants me to and even more so if I’m helping her.

I think these things are annoying you because you assume there’s some fakeness and subterfuge going on, but it sounds to me like you and your family are just wired differently. They are saying what’s true for them.

Exactly - what is the alternative, OP? Would you be happy if people just assumed you would hand over your baby or feed them nice meals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks to those of you who seem to get it.

It isn't passive aggressive all the time, though sometimes it is.

It is repressed, and muted, and there is never a genuine expression of emotion. Just careful control to not have a feeling, or a want, and never to express a feeling, or a want.

Like politeness that left me constantly guessing if I was ever doing the right thing as a child, and guised politeness when I started dating an abusive alcoholic -- my family could never say anything "bad" about anyone or anything no matter how awful something might be.

So everything is pretend, and wanting what's best, and when my ex was arrested for assaulting me and my kids, it was silence.

And sometimes it's just tiring to be left trying to guess even though as an adult I have my own circle, the little ways their patterns play out exhaust me sometimes, and annoy me that this really is just how it is with them. Mostly though it's my brother repeating all of the patterns that I find hardest.

It just makes things not feel real. Like it's all just for show. Like literally my mother said a few months ago that she had never ever in her life started an argument. (Because that is not "nice")

I think this example is really unfair of you, OP. It’s very difficult to watch your adult child enter into and maintain an abusive relationship and there is very little a parent can do besides reiterate how much they love you. They couldn’t have known whether if they spoke out against your ex, you would return to him and blame them for their words, cut them off etc. You seem to be judging them for not knowing how to respond, and yet you were the one in that relationship.

Your anger at your family seems really misplaced. They might not express themselves the way you do, but that doesn’t make their personalities wrong. You need to learn how to tolerate other people’s differences and not to make assumptions.

OP here, I agree but that's the thing - there was no "we love you". Also never in my life heard I'm proud of you or good job. I don't really feel angry about the minor examples but you are right that I am not tolerant of their differences. Maybe sometimes I could tolerate when it's a matter of preference and the outcome is annoyance.

In general I don't have tolerance for them. They are racist and homophobic (believe interracial and gay relationships are sin, wrong, burn in hell situations) and even stuff like yoga - my SIL did yoga and my dad told my brother yoga was sin and my brother told SIL no more yoga and she quit it.

I justify not respecting them. I don't tolerate the more severe issues in my house, around me or my kids. But it definitely affects my ability to tolerate all the little things because to me, they're not just little things. They're symbolic of much bigger attitudes, issues and toxic christianity. Everything is on an agenda to be christian-like so god sees how good they are. Which I do sometimes feel compassion for, but sometimes the constancy is just exhausting and upsetting.

I think you're right that my reactions and emotions are misplaced.

So you have a lot more going on here... sounds like you are the one with hidden resentment who is not honest in your interactions. I feel sorry for your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

+1

Same - the midwestern nice is taking expression of emotion as complaining. No thanks.

Yes! Yes! I worked with a woman like this! It was her and her team's JOB to review something and then during the meeting, discuss her team's findings. They said everything was good. Smiles all around. Then after the others left, she said, "Well, I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but this is wrong, that's wrong, " etc
Eyeroll

Niceness is toxic. It's not to be confused with kindness. Letting some one know there's an issue is kindness.

Dp. Women can't win. Either they are "angry" "bossy" or "aggressive" or too passive nice or toxic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

+1

Same - the midwestern nice is taking expression of emotion as complaining. No thanks.

Yes! Yes! I worked with a woman like this! It was her and her team's JOB to review something and then during the meeting, discuss her team's findings. They said everything was good. Smiles all around. Then after the others left, she said, "Well, I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but this is wrong, that's wrong, " etc
Eyeroll

Niceness is toxic. It's not to be confused with kindness. Letting some one know there's an issue is kindness.

Dp. Women can't win. Either they are "angry" "bossy" or "aggressive" or too passive nice or toxic

Yes, saying what mean and meaning what you say is b1tchy to some people who are not used to being direct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

Wow. I feel for your in laws. Hopefully your spouse divorces you and find someone kinder.

Ha ha ha ha ha! As if. He never will initiate a divorce - not ever, no matter what. I’ve gotten fed up over the years and tried but he has never entertained it even in our lowest points as a couple. Part of the Midwestern nice upbringing means that his top ambition in life was to be a husband. Raising my kids to be much different- to value actual authenticity over outward appearances and to make sure both DDs and DSs know that it is ok for women to aspire to more than SAHM or elementary school teachers (no hate to those roles - but girls shouldn’t be railroaded into that if they want to take a different path).

I grew up in the Midwest. Your posts are drowning in stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks to those of you who seem to get it.

It isn't passive aggressive all the time, though sometimes it is.

It is repressed, and muted, and there is never a genuine expression of emotion. Just careful control to not have a feeling, or a want, and never to express a feeling, or a want.

Like politeness that left me constantly guessing if I was ever doing the right thing as a child, and guised politeness when I started dating an abusive alcoholic -- my family could never say anything "bad" about anyone or anything no matter how awful something might be.

So everything is pretend, and wanting what's best, and when my ex was arrested for assaulting me and my kids, it was silence.

And sometimes it's just tiring to be left trying to guess even though as an adult I have my own circle, the little ways their patterns play out exhaust me sometimes, and annoy me that this really is just how it is with them. Mostly though it's my brother repeating all of the patterns that I find hardest.

It just makes things not feel real. Like it's all just for show. Like literally my mother said a few months ago that she had never ever in her life started an argument. (Because that is not "nice")

I think this example is really unfair of you, OP. It’s very difficult to watch your adult child enter into and maintain an abusive relationship and there is very little a parent can do besides reiterate how much they love you. They couldn’t have known whether if they spoke out against your ex, you would return to him and blame them for their words, cut them off etc. You seem to be judging them for not knowing how to respond, and yet you were the one in that relationship.

Your anger at your family seems really misplaced. They might not express themselves the way you do, but that doesn’t make their personalities wrong. You need to learn how to tolerate other people’s differences and not to make assumptions.

OP here, I agree but that's the thing - there was no "we love you". Also never in my life heard I'm proud of you or good job. I don't really feel angry about the minor examples but you are right that I am not tolerant of their differences. Maybe sometimes I could tolerate when it's a matter of preference and the outcome is annoyance.

In general I don't have tolerance for them. They are racist and homophobic (believe interracial and gay relationships are sin, wrong, burn in hell situations) and even stuff like yoga - my SIL did yoga and my dad told my brother yoga was sin and my brother told SIL no more yoga and she quit it.

I justify not respecting them. I don't tolerate the more severe issues in my house, around me or my kids. But it definitely affects my ability to tolerate all the little things because to me, they're not just little things. They're symbolic of much bigger attitudes, issues and toxic christianity. Everything is on an agenda to be christian-like so god sees how good they are. Which I do sometimes feel compassion for, but sometimes the constancy is just exhausting and upsetting.

I think you're right that my reactions and emotions are misplaced.

So you have a lot more going on here... sounds like you are the one with hidden resentment who is not honest in your interactions. I feel sorry for your family.

+1. Now OP makes sense. It's actually HER problem with HER attitudes and judgment. She feels superior and is judging them.