Family annoyance - passive aggressive "niceness"

[Anonymous]

Your family is very Japanese! I know they're probably not, but the manners are the same. It is considered rude to be forthright, and polite to go round about. So I've been steeped in these courtesies my whole life. When it's people you know, it's usually easy to tell what they want exactly. When it's strangers, these communication methods allay guilt and shame because everyone saves face, a very important concept in Japanese culture.

I really don't think you can blame your siblings for acting in this way if they learned this from your mother.
And maybe your mother learned this from her parents.
It also seems as if you may express your emotions a little too bluntly for their sensibilities, and they are scared of you. Maybe they feel they have to walk on eggshells around you, and that nothing they do is right!

So if you think they want to hold the baby, give them the baby for a little while. If you think they might want something else to eat, you can ask them the day before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I get it that people that don't have families like this likely won't understand. I'm asking people who do. People who do will get what it's like.

I understand!!! My stepmother is like this and it drives me batty. I’ve read this far in the thread because I was looking for useful answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Your family is very Japanese! I know they're probably not, but the manners are the same. It is considered rude to be forthright, and polite to go round about. So I've been steeped in these courtesies my whole life. When it's people you know, it's usually easy to tell what they want exactly. When it's strangers, these communication methods allay guilt and shame because everyone saves face, a very important concept in Japanese culture.

I really don't think you can blame your siblings for acting in this way if they learned this from your mother.
And maybe your mother learned this from her parents.
It also seems as if you may express your emotions a little too bluntly for their sensibilities, and they are scared of you. Maybe they feel they have to walk on eggshells around you, and that nothing they do is right!

So if you think they want to hold the baby, give them the baby for a little while. If you think they might want something else to eat, you can ask them the day before.

This is a very useful answer!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I get it that people that don't have families like this likely won't understand. I'm asking people who do. People who do will get what it's like.

My mom is like this - but it is not really nice. If visiting, she will go on and on about how we should not do so much - or go on and on how they do not need anything. But the thing is - she is not being nice. I know she turns around and complains about what we do offer (because she will do, it when she thinks I cannot hear her). It is an annoying act. Or - she is actually mad because she wants to be the best host. So if we have something like homemade rolls, she is actually angry because she uses store bought. Store bought is fine. I just wanted to make home made rolls.

It also is just a control thing - she wants to decide what a meal should be like. So I get it OP. With the big breakfast, just say you like to do it now and then, and if they do not feel like eating it, they do not have to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The common denominator is you.

Are you coming off as stressed? Do you seem annoyed? Check in and be honest with your own behavior.

#1. Maybe your mom has been reading right here on DCUM that grandparents, when visiting in the early days, should focus on being helpful rather than just on wanting to hold the baby. Is she going a little overboard? Yeah, maybe. But her intention is good: she wants you to hold the baby whenever you want to, and she knows her holding the baby is a secondary priority.

#2. Maybe—whether you can admit it or not—you are one of those stressed-out, huffy, put-upon hostesses. Maybe in your guests’ mind, the production is obviously a stress to you, and they would rather have you relaxed and serving Wegmans muffins than put-upon and serving French toast.

Reflect. Again: the common denominator is you.

This!!!!

Your MIL is worried about your overreaction so she doesn't ask to hold the baby.

No one actually likes or wants the breakfast because you freak out about how much work it is.

It's you, op. You are the problem.

[Anonymous]

I can see what you're saying OP, but this seems like entry level passive-aggression. Yes, annoying over time, but as someone who has 40+ years of family interactions with some Grade A Dysfunction that includes passive aggression, enmeshment, co-dependency, you name it, this doesn't strike me as a big deal. For example:

When I was pregnant, we didn't want to share baby names because we were struggling to decide. My mother declared to my father and to my sister (but not to me) that our refusal to share names was pushing her into a deep depression and she felt uninvolved in my pregnancy and like she was being pushed away. Instead of telling me this directly, my dad started texting me periodically to say my mom "seemed depressed" and "could use some cheering up" from me. Eventually these escalated to "I'm worried your mother might self-harm" even though I was absolutely calling and reaching out during this time, but my mom would sound totally happy on the phone with me (though then also randomly call me and sound sad so I had reason to believe what my dad was saying, but when I asked her point blank if she was doing okay, she'd tell me she was "great, thrilled, so excited about my grand baby!") I had no idea that he was implying her upset was related to my pregnancy or any of my actions. Meanwhile, my sister became obviously angry with me during this time but refused to say why, until after several months of clearly irritated behavior (rolling her eyes at me, glaring at me during meals, leaving rooms when I spoke), she finally blew up at me and said I was "ruining [our mother's] life" by selfishly refusing to tell my mom what baby names we were considering.

Keep in mind I was 4-9 months pregnant with my first child while all this was going on, AND my FIL had just been diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer and given 6 months to a year to live.

What you are describing sounds annoying, for sure. I get it. Especially when repeated all the time. It's like "Minnesota Nice" if you've ever encountered that. But it's manageable. Try to focus on your own communication and be as clear as possible, and learn to detach when they use passive aggression to try and make you responsible for their emotional state. Let them own their own feelings and simply focus on clear communication on your end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The common denominator is you.

Are you coming off as stressed? Do you seem annoyed? Check in and be honest with your own behavior.

#1. Maybe your mom has been reading right here on DCUM that grandparents, when visiting in the early days, should focus on being helpful rather than just on wanting to hold the baby. Is she going a little overboard? Yeah, maybe. But her intention is good: she wants you to hold the baby whenever you want to, and she knows her holding the baby is a secondary priority.

#2. Maybe—whether you can admit it or not—you are one of those stressed-out, huffy, put-upon hostesses. Maybe in your guests’ mind, the production is obviously a stress to you, and they would rather have you relaxed and serving Wegmans muffins than put-upon and serving French toast.

Reflect. Again: the common denominator is you.

Agreed, I think this is FAR more in OP's head, rather than them all doing something to bother her.

I think they sound very in tune with OP's stressors and anxieties... maybe she doesn't realize she's giving off this energy though?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The common denominator is you.

Are you coming off as stressed? Do you seem annoyed? Check in and be honest with your own behavior.

#1. Maybe your mom has been reading right here on DCUM that grandparents, when visiting in the early days, should focus on being helpful rather than just on wanting to hold the baby. Is she going a little overboard? Yeah, maybe. But her intention is good: she wants you to hold the baby whenever you want to, and she knows her holding the baby is a secondary priority.

#2. Maybe—whether you can admit it or not—you are one of those stressed-out, huffy, put-upon hostesses. Maybe in your guests’ mind, the production is obviously a stress to you, and they would rather have you relaxed and serving Wegmans muffins than put-upon and serving French toast.

Reflect. Again: the common denominator is you.

In #2 above, OP’s brother says “we don’t want you to feel like you have to…” Thra is pretty much the definition of passive aggressive. It may be a back-handed attempt to be polite, but it’s not. It’s poor manners to be passive aggressive. If you don’t want a big breakfast, say it politely, “we prefer not to eat a large breakfast.” If you think OP seems stressed and huffy, say it, “making the big breakfast seems to stress you out.”

OP, I get it. I also would be annoyed in your shoes if my family couldn’t simply state what they were saying without using a passive voice. And if I told them they were being passive, they wouldn’t get it at all. So… no advice, but I do understand your frustration.

This is SUCH a bad take.
You think that TELLING her that making the breakfast seems to stress her out would be taken positively by the OP, lol??
After you nuts??
THAT is called being aggressive, however #2 is just being polite and considerate.

It seems like you're lacking as much insight as the OP issue.

[Anonymous]

My mom is very very nice and generous to everyone. It's her true nature. But...it comes at a cost because in order to make everyone happy, there's always some lacking somewhere--a lack of communication, being incredibly late for one person because she couldn't say no to the other person. There's always this dance to try and figure out what is going on because she can't please everyone but she tries hard. And yes she wants to bend over backwards to make huge meals for others, but if someone does it for her she feels awkward like she put them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I get it that people that don't have families like this likely won't understand. I'm asking people who do. People who do will get what it's like.

OP, I think if this were actually a problem and that they were truly passive aggressive (instead of merely cluelessly annoying) you would have much, much better examples. There’s someone who responded on the second page about a pregnancy/baby name issue that is actually problematic.

And if you had stronger material, you would have led with it, so don’t bother backtracking and fabricating now. It sounds like the problem is you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can see what you're saying OP, but this seems like entry level passive-aggression. Yes, annoying over time, but as someone who has 40+ years of family interactions with some Grade A Dysfunction that includes passive aggression, enmeshment, co-dependency, you name it, this doesn't strike me as a big deal. For example:

When I was pregnant, we didn't want to share baby names because we were struggling to decide. My mother declared to my father and to my sister (but not to me) that our refusal to share names was pushing her into a deep depression and she felt uninvolved in my pregnancy and like she was being pushed away. Instead of telling me this directly, my dad started texting me periodically to say my mom "seemed depressed" and "could use some cheering up" from me. Eventually these escalated to "I'm worried your mother might self-harm" even though I was absolutely calling and reaching out during this time, but my mom would sound totally happy on the phone with me (though then also randomly call me and sound sad so I had reason to believe what my dad was saying, but when I asked her point blank if she was doing okay, she'd tell me she was "great, thrilled, so excited about my grand baby!") I had no idea that he was implying her upset was related to my pregnancy or any of my actions. Meanwhile, my sister became obviously angry with me during this time but refused to say why, until after several months of clearly irritated behavior (rolling her eyes at me, glaring at me during meals, leaving rooms when I spoke), she finally blew up at me and said I was "ruining [our mother's] life" by selfishly refusing to tell my mom what baby names we were considering.

Keep in mind I was 4-9 months pregnant with my first child while all this was going on, AND my FIL had just been diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer and given 6 months to a year to live.

What you are describing sounds annoying, for sure. I get it. Especially when repeated all the time. It's like "Minnesota Nice" if you've ever encountered that. But it's manageable. Try to focus on your own communication and be as clear as possible, and learn to detach when they use passive aggression to try and make you responsible for their emotional state. Let them own their own feelings and simply focus on clear communication on your end.

This is awful! I’m so sorry it happened to you! No one deserves that for your mom and sister while big and pregnant and vulnerable especially with your first!

[Anonymous]

OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

+1

Same - the midwestern nice is taking expression of emotion as complaining. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

Better midwestern nice than whatever this is. Imagine making this kind of generalization about women your husband loves and who love him. Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I married into a family of Ohio Christians who are Midwestern nice. It seemed so wonderful at first compared to my family of outward dysfunction. I’ve learned over time that what I thought was impeccable manners is actually repression. The women in particular are infantilized simpletons. I don’t have any advice, just that I understand.

Wow. I feel for your in laws. Hopefully your spouse divorces you and find someone kinder.