S/o how to ensure I’m not a burden on my kids as I age

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most helpful thing my mom has done is being transparent with her assets. We have a spreadsheet, I have account numbers, usernames and passwords. I know where everything is and who to contact if needed.

And I agree that I refuse to burden my children with constant need for attention when I’m older. I’ve been doing the obligatory twice a week visits with my mom for almost a year. It’s a lot. And it’s constant guilt tripping that I’m not there enough.

One thing I would have done differently- not required two independent doctors to certify she is unable to handle her affairs. She trusts me and it was a little hassle to get have to reach out to two doctors for the letters I needed for a POA.

PP, I was curious about your second point: feeling guilt-tripped into spending time with your mom. I hear this sentiment in one form or another frequently on this forum. Is it that you don't have a good relationship with your mom or that she complains that you don't see her enough or what? What would be the ideal frequency to visit with her in your mind? I admit that I too sometimes felt that spending time with my aging parents was a chore, but I also wonder how this could be reframed in our minds or handled differently as we age ourselves. The reality is that people in their 80s are probably not going to have too many friends or social contacts left (many have died or can't manage visits) and we--the offspring--literally may be the only people they see all week. We may find ourselves in this situation as well one day (God help us). I also realize that people are living way too long these days, so these tensions can last for decades. I don't know what the answer is to this, but I am open to hearing from others how to deal with it.

I’m the PP about having to see my mom twice a week. We are very close and I love her very much. She is in assisted living and part of a sub-group there that’s sort of transitionary for people suffering from cognitive impairment. There’s about ten of them and they have separate activities during the week when their counselor is there. So she’s really busy during the week and she has made friends there. I also know that logically that she’s not going to be around forever and I’m going to be devastated when she’s gone. I see her twice a week, every week. Once in an evening after work and one day when I’m off work. If it was up to her I’d come a third time, at a minimum. She’s extremely codependent. Personally I think once a week would be ideal.

My issue is that I’m a total sandwich generation- I have a full time job, a husband, kids, a house to maintain and the remnants of a social life (which has really taken a hit the last year or two). I never have any time for me. All of my time is devoted to others. It takes me months to schedule a haircut or a dental cleaning or a mammogram or anything that isn’t a necessity because there is only so much time in a day. I’ve lost touch with most of my friends because they eventually stop inviting me to things when the answer is always no. I accept the sacrifice I make for kids because that was a choice I made. And I logically recognize that my mom took care of me when I was young so it’s a payback for her. But at what cost?

My mom unloads on me every time I see her with whatever the complaints of the week are. It’s just a totally unhealthy dynamic and one I can’t seem to fix. I may get to her place and she’ll be smiling and happy and enjoying her time and within an hour of my arrival she’s miserable and complaining about this or that or this person or that ailment and it’s a lot. Every visit I leave with a list of things she needs or a list of calls to make to set up appointments for her, and every time I come I bring whatever it is that she indicated she needed from the last visit that I’ve since procured for her. I leave the visits completely drained. Every time, twice a week, it’s absolutely exhausting.

I wish I knew the answer. It’s truly a lose-lose situation.

NP - that sounds awful, PP. I'm sorry. Can you shorten your visits to her? Like, is there a length of time before she starts in with the complaints that you could commit to? Because some of the things you're foregoing to care for her, like mammograms and dental cleanings and close friendships, are necessities. They're investments in your health, for your kids. Put another way, would you want your kids to sacrifice for you to this degree, at the expense of their lives? Just as you chose to have kids, your mom chose to have you. You may still choose to care for her to this degree, but I don't think you need to pay her back for caring for you when you were young. That's what she signed up for in having kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check for all of us: by the time we develop dementia or the like or figure out we’re a burden, it’ll be too late to do anything about it.

right, that's why OP is asking what they can do to "ensure" they aren't a burden to their kids.

OP, the only thing I can think of is memory care. When you hit dementia, you won't even realize that this is what you have, and that life sucks because of it. It becomes your new normal.

Having thought long and hard about this after managing my dad's care for years and watching my SILs manage the care of their parents, these are things we should probably ALL be doing.

*Downsize and get rid of your excess sh** as soon as you can. Your kids will thank you and you won't be so bogged down by your stuff that inertia takes over and you postpone moving to a better place for you.

*Move closer to your kids so that they won't have to scramble to manage your care from long distance.

*Write down detailed information about all your assets, including bank account info and amounts; life insurance policies and any other type of policies; stocks and bonds; annuity plans and amounts; outstanding debts, etc.--write it all down and put it in one master document. Attach the most recent copy of your will. Update yearly. That is what my dad did for me and it made handling his estate a lot easier. It also helped me when I had to fill out paperwork for his move to an assisted living community. If you can't handle your own finances one day, your kids will need to know what you have so they can complete the lengthy financial paperwork required by assisted living, memory care, and continuum of care communities. If you don't want them to know what you have/owe, then appoint someone like a lawyer to handle these things. And while you're at it, put someone on at least one of your accounts so that they have money to pay your bills if you cannot do it for yourself.

*Complete all the necessary medical directives years before you think you need them so there's no second-guessing what you want if you're incapacitated. Give all your kids a copy and one to your primary physician if you have one.

*SAVE at ton of money, at least a million, so that you have enough to cover expenses if you ever need costly care.

*Start taking care of yourself NOW. Prioritize your health so that you can maybe avoid some of the common ailments of aging. Lose the weight, stop smoking, cut back on drinking, do some cardio like walking on most days, start strength training and eating more protein to build muscle (especially if you are a woman), incorporate balance exercises to prevent falls by the time you're 70. (I'm in my early 60s and I've started doing these things now not just to live better in the present but to decrease the chances of health problems down the road). Whatever I do will be better than what my parents did to prepare for old age, which was nothing. We know better so we have to do better.

*Either move to a home that is appropriate for older adults or start renovating your home now so that there is a full bath on the first floor. Move the washer/dryer to the first floor. Get these things in place before you need them.

*Explore elder care options in your current community or any future one you want to move to so that you scope out your options as you age that do not involve burdening your kids. For example, I know someone in DC who lived in a neighborhood (Palisades, I think) with a community organization that organized younger seniors (usually retired and in their 60s and 70s) to do simple chores, run errands, and drive older seniors to appointments so that they could also avail of these forms of assistance as they aged--a sort of organized paying-it-forward. I also know several people who live in cooperative-type neighborhoods where some of these forms of assistance are exchanged. I suspect new models of aging in place will develop in the future that will involve alternatives to depending entirely on our kids. These things are out there. You just have to do some research. Also explore continuum of care communities near you years before you think you need them so that you know what is available and you've done the legwork yourself instead of relying on your kids to do it. There's a whole range of them and they're not all bad. I visited one woman in a really posh one in Bethesda that had a very high buy-in but, if you could afford it, had beautiful apartments and attractive amenities in the independent living side. They are not nursing homes. Increasingly, these communities are appearing in walkable or urban areas, such as this new one being built right on Maple Avenue in downtown Vienna, VA (https://www.sunriseseniorliving.com/communities/va/sunrise-of-vienna). It clearly is catering to people like me who want to be in a walkable community with people of all ages rather than being on an isolated campus with just other older adults.


*Additional "action steps" in response to conversations on this forum:

*For those that say they want to off themselves if/when things get too bad in old age, you may want to research and move to states that allow physician-assisted suicide. Interestingly, DC is one of them, but the states that a lot of seniors move to (Florida, Arizona, the South) do not offer physician-assisted suicide. Maybe advocate for that issue in your own state if it isn't offered.

*For those that complain about having to care for parents they don't like or love, as you age maybe start working on your relationship with your kids if you suspect that your kids will want nothing to do with you later in life. Go to counseling with them now if there's an issue. Work on your relationships with all your kids. Whether you end up being a burden to them or not, there's clearly a lot of adults who harbor anger and resentment towards parents and siblings and that will be amplified exponentially in an elder care situation.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/physician-assisted-suicide-fast-facts/index.html

This is just off the top of my head. I'm looking forward to other peoples' suggestions.

This is amazing! Thank you for sharing!

+1

Especially that last part. Too many elders are without, and some that are not, and who may have built in accommodations thanks to their spouse, tend to not feel the need to work on their relationships, which is a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check for all of us: by the time we develop dementia or the like or figure out we’re a burden, it’ll be too late to do anything about it.

right, that's why OP is asking what they can do to "ensure" they aren't a burden to their kids.

OP, the only thing I can think of is memory care. When you hit dementia, you won't even realize that this is what you have, and that life sucks because of it. It becomes your new normal.

Having thought long and hard about this after managing my dad's care for years and watching my SILs manage the care of their parents, these are things we should probably ALL be doing.

*Downsize and get rid of your excess sh** as soon as you can. Your kids will thank you and you won't be so bogged down by your stuff that inertia takes over and you postpone moving to a better place for you.

*Move closer to your kids so that they won't have to scramble to manage your care from long distance.

*Write down detailed information about all your assets, including bank account info and amounts; life insurance policies and any other type of policies; stocks and bonds; annuity plans and amounts; outstanding debts, etc.--write it all down and put it in one master document. Attach the most recent copy of your will. Update yearly. That is what my dad did for me and it made handling his estate a lot easier. It also helped me when I had to fill out paperwork for his move to an assisted living community. If you can't handle your own finances one day, your kids will need to know what you have so they can complete the lengthy financial paperwork required by assisted living, memory care, and continuum of care communities. If you don't want them to know what you have/owe, then appoint someone like a lawyer to handle these things. And while you're at it, put someone on at least one of your accounts so that they have money to pay your bills if you cannot do it for yourself.

*Complete all the necessary medical directives years before you think you need them so there's no second-guessing what you want if you're incapacitated. Give all your kids a copy and one to your primary physician if you have one.

*SAVE at ton of money, at least a million, so that you have enough to cover expenses if you ever need costly care.

*Start taking care of yourself NOW. Prioritize your health so that you can maybe avoid some of the common ailments of aging. Lose the weight, stop smoking, cut back on drinking, do some cardio like walking on most days, start strength training and eating more protein to build muscle (especially if you are a woman), incorporate balance exercises to prevent falls by the time you're 70. (I'm in my early 60s and I've started doing these things now not just to live better in the present but to decrease the chances of health problems down the road). Whatever I do will be better than what my parents did to prepare for old age, which was nothing. We know better so we have to do better.

*Either move to a home that is appropriate for older adults or start renovating your home now so that there is a full bath on the first floor. Move the washer/dryer to the first floor. Get these things in place before you need them.

*Explore elder care options in your current community or any future one you want to move to so that you scope out your options as you age that do not involve burdening your kids. For example, I know someone in DC who lived in a neighborhood (Palisades, I think) with a community organization that organized younger seniors (usually retired and in their 60s and 70s) to do simple chores, run errands, and drive older seniors to appointments so that they could also avail of these forms of assistance as they aged--a sort of organized paying-it-forward. I also know several people who live in cooperative-type neighborhoods where some of these forms of assistance are exchanged. I suspect new models of aging in place will develop in the future that will involve alternatives to depending entirely on our kids. These things are out there. You just have to do some research. Also explore continuum of care communities near you years before you think you need them so that you know what is available and you've done the legwork yourself instead of relying on your kids to do it. There's a whole range of them and they're not all bad. I visited one woman in a really posh one in Bethesda that had a very high buy-in but, if you could afford it, had beautiful apartments and attractive amenities in the independent living side. They are not nursing homes. Increasingly, these communities are appearing in walkable or urban areas, such as this new one being built right on Maple Avenue in downtown Vienna, VA (https://www.sunriseseniorliving.com/communities/va/sunrise-of-vienna). It clearly is catering to people like me who want to be in a walkable community with people of all ages rather than being on an isolated campus with just other older adults.


*Additional "action steps" in response to conversations on this forum:

*For those that say they want to off themselves if/when things get too bad in old age, you may want to research and move to states that allow physician-assisted suicide. Interestingly, DC is one of them, but the states that a lot of seniors move to (Florida, Arizona, the South) do not offer physician-assisted suicide. Maybe advocate for that issue in your own state if it isn't offered.

*For those that complain about having to care for parents they don't like or love, as you age maybe start working on your relationship with your kids if you suspect that your kids will want nothing to do with you later in life. Go to counseling with them now if there's an issue. Work on your relationships with all your kids. Whether you end up being a burden to them or not, there's clearly a lot of adults who harbor anger and resentment towards parents and siblings and that will be amplified exponentially in an elder care situation.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/physician-assisted-suicide-fast-facts/index.html

This is just off the top of my head. I'm looking forward to other peoples' suggestions.

This is amazing! Thank you for sharing!

+1

Especially that last part. Too many elders are without, and some that are not, and who may have built in accommodations thanks to their spouse, tend to not feel the need to work on their relationships, which is a shame.

DP - I completely agree about the need for adults to work on their relationships, but not to the extent of going to family therapy with adult kids. Individual therapy, sure, but not family. It's a hell of a lot of hard work; if my difficult parent wanted me to go to family therapy to fix the problems they created, that would make things much worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If people are serious about not becoming a burden you need to choose an age at which you still have your faculties and make a decision to unalive yourself at that point. For me, it 80. But in reality, most people aren’t willing to go that far.

How about if you get just plain mean and miserable? Real question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most helpful thing my mom has done is being transparent with her assets. We have a spreadsheet, I have account numbers, usernames and passwords. I know where everything is and who to contact if needed.

And I agree that I refuse to burden my children with constant need for attention when I’m older. I’ve been doing the obligatory twice a week visits with my mom for almost a year. It’s a lot. And it’s constant guilt tripping that I’m not there enough.

One thing I would have done differently- not required two independent doctors to certify she is unable to handle her affairs. She trusts me and it was a little hassle to get have to reach out to two doctors for the letters I needed for a POA.

PP, I was curious about your second point: feeling guilt-tripped into spending time with your mom. I hear this sentiment in one form or another frequently on this forum. Is it that you don't have a good relationship with your mom or that she complains that you don't see her enough or what? What would be the ideal frequency to visit with her in your mind? I admit that I too sometimes felt that spending time with my aging parents was a chore, but I also wonder how this could be reframed in our minds or handled differently as we age ourselves. The reality is that people in their 80s are probably not going to have too many friends or social contacts left (many have died or can't manage visits) and we--the offspring--literally may be the only people they see all week. We may find ourselves in this situation as well one day (God help us). I also realize that people are living way too long these days, so these tensions can last for decades. I don't know what the answer is to this, but I am open to hearing from others how to deal with it.

I’m the PP about having to see my mom twice a week. We are very close and I love her very much. She is in assisted living and part of a sub-group there that’s sort of transitionary for people suffering from cognitive impairment. There’s about ten of them and they have separate activities during the week when their counselor is there. So she’s really busy during the week and she has made friends there. I also know that logically that she’s not going to be around forever and I’m going to be devastated when she’s gone. I see her twice a week, every week. Once in an evening after work and one day when I’m off work. If it was up to her I’d come a third time, at a minimum. She’s extremely codependent. Personally I think once a week would be ideal.

My issue is that I’m a total sandwich generation- I have a full time job, a husband, kids, a house to maintain and the remnants of a social life (which has really taken a hit the last year or two). I never have any time for me. All of my time is devoted to others. It takes me months to schedule a haircut or a dental cleaning or a mammogram or anything that isn’t a necessity because there is only so much time in a day. I’ve lost touch with most of my friends because they eventually stop inviting me to things when the answer is always no. I accept the sacrifice I make for kids because that was a choice I made. And I logically recognize that my mom took care of me when I was young so it’s a payback for her. But at what cost?

My mom unloads on me every time I see her with whatever the complaints of the week are. It’s just a totally unhealthy dynamic and one I can’t seem to fix. I may get to her place and she’ll be smiling and happy and enjoying her time and within an hour of my arrival she’s miserable and complaining about this or that or this person or that ailment and it’s a lot. Every visit I leave with a list of things she needs or a list of calls to make to set up appointments for her, and every time I come I bring whatever it is that she indicated she needed from the last visit that I’ve since procured for her. I leave the visits completely drained. Every time, twice a week, it’s absolutely exhausting.

I wish I knew the answer. It’s truly a lose-lose situation.

wow. This is.....a lot. I'm truly sympathetic, PP. I'm wondering (I genuinely don't know, so asking) - does the assisted living place have social workers or others you could meet with and discuss this dynamic? They must see it a lot, I would think, and they must also not want to see their patient go from happy and content to grumbling and distraught when her daughter visits. I have to imagine it's disruptive to her care, too? Is there a resource somewhere within the system that could help break this dynamic a bit? (as another poster said, you're probably the only one she feels she can dump her fears and feelings on, but there's a point where this is just too much).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality check for all of us: by the time we develop dementia or the like or figure out we’re a burden, it’ll be too late to do anything about it.

right, that's why OP is asking what they can do to "ensure" they aren't a burden to their kids.

OP, the only thing I can think of is memory care. When you hit dementia, you won't even realize that this is what you have, and that life sucks because of it. It becomes your new normal.

Having thought long and hard about this after managing my dad's care for years and watching my SILs manage the care of their parents, these are things we should probably ALL be doing.

*Downsize and get rid of your excess sh** as soon as you can. Your kids will thank you and you won't be so bogged down by your stuff that inertia takes over and you postpone moving to a better place for you.

*Move closer to your kids so that they won't have to scramble to manage your care from long distance.

*Write down detailed information about all your assets, including bank account info and amounts; life insurance policies and any other type of policies; stocks and bonds; annuity plans and amounts; outstanding debts, etc.--write it all down and put it in one master document. Attach the most recent copy of your will. Update yearly. That is what my dad did for me and it made handling his estate a lot easier. It also helped me when I had to fill out paperwork for his move to an assisted living community. If you can't handle your own finances one day, your kids will need to know what you have so they can complete the lengthy financial paperwork required by assisted living, memory care, and continuum of care communities. If you don't want them to know what you have/owe, then appoint someone like a lawyer to handle these things. And while you're at it, put someone on at least one of your accounts so that they have money to pay your bills if you cannot do it for yourself.

*Complete all the necessary medical directives years before you think you need them so there's no second-guessing what you want if you're incapacitated. Give all your kids a copy and one to your primary physician if you have one.

*SAVE at ton of money, at least a million, so that you have enough to cover expenses if you ever need costly care.

*Start taking care of yourself NOW. Prioritize your health so that you can maybe avoid some of the common ailments of aging. Lose the weight, stop smoking, cut back on drinking, do some cardio like walking on most days, start strength training and eating more protein to build muscle (especially if you are a woman), incorporate balance exercises to prevent falls by the time you're 70. (I'm in my early 60s and I've started doing these things now not just to live better in the present but to decrease the chances of health problems down the road). Whatever I do will be better than what my parents did to prepare for old age, which was nothing. We know better so we have to do better.

*Either move to a home that is appropriate for older adults or start renovating your home now so that there is a full bath on the first floor. Move the washer/dryer to the first floor. Get these things in place before you need them.

*Explore elder care options in your current community or any future one you want to move to so that you scope out your options as you age that do not involve burdening your kids. For example, I know someone in DC who lived in a neighborhood (Palisades, I think) with a community organization that organized younger seniors (usually retired and in their 60s and 70s) to do simple chores, run errands, and drive older seniors to appointments so that they could also avail of these forms of assistance as they aged--a sort of organized paying-it-forward. I also know several people who live in cooperative-type neighborhoods where some of these forms of assistance are exchanged. I suspect new models of aging in place will develop in the future that will involve alternatives to depending entirely on our kids. These things are out there. You just have to do some research. Also explore continuum of care communities near you years before you think you need them so that you know what is available and you've done the legwork yourself instead of relying on your kids to do it. There's a whole range of them and they're not all bad. I visited one woman in a really posh one in Bethesda that had a very high buy-in but, if you could afford it, had beautiful apartments and attractive amenities in the independent living side. They are not nursing homes. Increasingly, these communities are appearing in walkable or urban areas, such as this new one being built right on Maple Avenue in downtown Vienna, VA (https://www.sunriseseniorliving.com/communities/va/sunrise-of-vienna). It clearly is catering to people like me who want to be in a walkable community with people of all ages rather than being on an isolated campus with just other older adults.


*Additional "action steps" in response to conversations on this forum:

*For those that say they want to off themselves if/when things get too bad in old age, you may want to research and move to states that allow physician-assisted suicide. Interestingly, DC is one of them, but the states that a lot of seniors move to (Florida, Arizona, the South) do not offer physician-assisted suicide. Maybe advocate for that issue in your own state if it isn't offered.

*For those that complain about having to care for parents they don't like or love, as you age maybe start working on your relationship with your kids if you suspect that your kids will want nothing to do with you later in life. Go to counseling with them now if there's an issue. Work on your relationships with all your kids. Whether you end up being a burden to them or not, there's clearly a lot of adults who harbor anger and resentment towards parents and siblings and that will be amplified exponentially in an elder care situation.
https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/physician-assisted-suicide-fast-facts/index.html

This is just off the top of my head. I'm looking forward to other peoples' suggestions.

This is amazing! Thank you for sharing!

+1

Especially that last part. Too many elders are without, and some that are not, and who may have built in accommodations thanks to their spouse, tend to not feel the need to work on their relationships, which is a shame.

DP - I completely agree about the need for adults to work on their relationships, but not to the extent of going to family therapy with adult kids. Individual therapy, sure, but not family. It's a hell of a lot of hard work; if my difficult parent wanted me to go to family therapy to fix the problems they created, that would make things much worse.

Yeah, old people gonna old.

[Anonymous]

Holy cow, who on earth can afford these assisted living places? Even if you sell your house, every penny will be sunk into assisted living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here you go OP. I did the google search for you. It isn't Switzerland, but Canada is much closer. https://alzheimer.ca/en/help-support/im-caring-person-living-dementia/end-life-care/medical-assistance-dying

There is information out there that is easily accessible via internet. I recall reading a book about making a decision in advance about ending your life and the complications when it is for future and not current disability. I can't for the life of me remember what book this was in (I think one about Alzheimer's), but main takeaway is that you have to plan this out well in advance.

Looks like it's generally only for Canadians and not visitors. Not helpful for most of us.

Eligibility: must "be eligible for health services funded by the Canadian federal government, or a province or territory (or during the applicable minimum period of residence or waiting period for eligibility). Generally, visitors to Canada are not eligible for [Medical assistance in dying] MAID."

[Anonymous]

Such a universal concern and experience, and such wonderful advice and shared pain here.

I have shepherded my parents through their decline and difficult deaths now and have added to my intentions a couple of things based on what they did (or didn't do):

- setting up as much as possible in advance, clearing our your junk, having your affairs in order (as so well articulated elsewhere here) is a MASSIVE gift to whomever will be closing out the details of your life. Streamline your accounts, put someone you trust on a joint checking account so they can pay bills with your money, etc...
- be explicit w/ your children (or appropriate people) about your wishes so they feel ok about making life-sustaining or limiting decisions if necessary. Have your DNR or MOLST (medical orders for life sustaining treatment) paperwork signed, current, copied to all relevant people, and posted on your refrigerator.
- let your kids know - while you are well, sane, fully in your faculties - that you have had a wonderful life. That you do not want to be a burden to them. That it is ok to prioritize their kids' needs over their parent's needs, etc...

I came from a very dysfunctional and abusive household, but I have an enduring and incredibly powerful memory with my father that was a huge gift. About 18 months before he died, when he was in a nursing home and both he and my mother had just weathered incredibly scary medical issues which I had managed, he said: "I want to say something to you. You have my full and total support for any decisions you need to make, at any time, about anything. I want you to know that I trust your judgment and I support any decision you make."

We weren't having a serious conversation, he didn't put it into context, but he very much intended it as a serious, blanket statement.

It was of such profound comfort to me when I had to make so many difficult choices in following years. It was a touchstone for me that I will never forget.

So I intend to give that same gift to my kids (once I can say it truthfully - ha ha ha) and will do that in conversation and in writing. I want to let them off the hook of guilt and doubt in advance.