What are your thoughts about Anne Boleyn?

[Anonymous]

Op here. I can’t express the joy that I have reading of the replies in this thread. Thank you all so much! I’ve started having an interest in this area of history and am taking in so much information right now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, she was wrongfully murdered. She was accused of infidelity to an insane degree, with a half-dozen men, including her own brother. It’s been reviewed and historians agree that she was not guilty of infidelity.

She was probably guilty of having a pre-contract to Thomas Howard, but it’s not her fault that Archbishop Cranmer worked with Henry and the Howards and the Boleyns to have it put aside.

She was absolutely no angel, but she also helped tear down Catholicsm’s iron grip on all aspects of life in that country at that time. She helped to crack the door that her daughter Elizabeth blew down, creating a country where people had more access to religious freedom, more access to reading Christian texts in English, more personal freedom.

She also helped create a world where women could be ennobled and own land in their own right. She is the first woman to be granted a patent of nobility in her own right.

If you are unaware of how much she directly worked to establish Protestantism in England—alongside Cromwell, who eventually turned into her enemy—you need to read a few of her modern biographies. She oversaw an entire council that was a precursor to Henry’s reformation.

Thomas Howard was her uncle. She wasn't pre-contracted to him. Do you mean Henry Percy?

I love it when the experts appear on DCUM. MUCH more interesting.

What are your favorite non-fiction books about the Tudors and Anne Boleyn? (Or have you read literally anything beyond Philippa Gregory?) I was typing fast and swapped out one person’s name in the middle of about five different thoughts.

NP here. I loved Six Wives by David Starkey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she played politics (converting the king to Protestant) and lost.

She didn’t convert him to Protestant. She was also a catholic - but he wanted a divorce and to remarry and the Pope didn’t let him so he had a tantrum and declared himself the head of a new church.
He was obviously a terror of a person who was so used to getting his own way that he could not fathom anyone who stood up to him (not that many did, Pope excepted) or threatened him in any way. He would kill those who tried.

Not quite that simple, lol.

So what is your quick take? She didn’t convert him. Obviously there was a lot more to it but the very simple version is he wanted to divorce and remarry and the Pope said no. No lol needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She had 6 fingers.

What happened to the other 4?

This was a lie perpetrated by the Anne-haters! She had 5 plus 5 fingers but the Tudor press worked to smear her.

I once read that when we drink tea with our pinkie up, it’s an old-school English way of making fun of poor Anne Boleyn and her supposed sixth finger. I have no idea if this has any truth to it

[Anonymous]

Loving this thread. I rely mostly on historical fiction for my Tudor (and rest of British monarchy) history. Just recently started listening to any podcasts, and now have several suggestions for ones that sound perfect for me. Thanks to the OP and all the PPs!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she played politics (converting the king to Protestant) and lost.

She didn’t convert him to Protestant. She was also a catholic - but he wanted a divorce and to remarry and the Pope didn’t let him so he had a tantrum and declared himself the head of a new church.
He was obviously a terror of a person who was so used to getting his own way that he could not fathom anyone who stood up to him (not that many did, Pope excepted) or threatened him in any way. He would kill those who tried.

Not quite that simple, lol.

So what is your quick take? She didn’t convert him. Obviously there was a lot more to it but the very simple version is he wanted to divorce and remarry and the Pope said no. No lol needed.

I'm not the PP.

My quick take is that like many noble families, the Howard clan was trying to expand and maintain their influence (political, financial). They (like many families) put forward several young women to Henry as mistresses. As his wife continued to not have children, the ambition those families increased. Anne managed to maintain the family's influence without actually having sex with Henry, which is pretty surprising and which was used as a tactic against Anne by the Seymour clan.

On the Henry side of things, he was not raised to be king. He was destined for the church per his maternal grandmother and all his early training was in that department. When his older brother died and he was next in line for the throne, he had a lot more power and less accountability than usual. The pressure to sire an heir starts basically immediately. His father took the crown on the battle field and the monarchy had been going back and forth for the better part of a century. His older wife couldn't have any more kids. He needed one. His wife would not grant the divorce because of her religion, so he broke the religion itself in order to get what he wanted.

I could literally talk about this all night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She had 6 fingers.

What happened to the other 4?

This was a lie perpetrated by the Anne-haters! She had 5 plus 5 fingers but the Tudor press worked to smear her.

I once read that when we drink tea with our pinkie up, it’s an old-school English way of making fun of poor Anne Boleyn and her supposed sixth finger. I have no idea if this has any truth to it

I have never really understood what the actual issue was supposed to be. Some people say it's a double nail on her little finger, and I just can't imagine what that would have looked like. What do you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think she was wrongfully murdered?

Yes but she got her revenge in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She had 6 fingers.

What happened to the other 4?

This was a lie perpetrated by the Anne-haters! She had 5 plus 5 fingers but the Tudor press worked to smear her.

I once read that when we drink tea with our pinkie up, it’s an old-school English way of making fun of poor Anne Boleyn and her supposed sixth finger. I have no idea if this has any truth to it

I have never really understood what the actual issue was supposed to be. Some people say it's a double nail on her little finger, and I just can't imagine what that would have looked like. What do you think?

I recently saw Six and that’s how it was explained there.

[Anonymous]

Anne and the other women should have challenged the men to duels or physical combat.

[Anonymous]

I’m descended from her sister Mary. I’m appreciating this thread.

My understanding is that her parents were so ambitious that they were willing to risk their children. But true - that was the nature of the times.

[Anonymous]

Did King Henry VIII father children through her sister? Multiple books indicate it.

[Anonymous]

I went on a ghost tour in London. We stopped at the Tower of London and heard the very gruesome story of her death.

She did not deserve what she encountered with a complete narcissist. Women have endured so much through the centuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went on a ghost tour in London. We stopped at the Tower of London and heard the very gruesome story of her death.

She did not deserve what she encountered with a complete narcissist. Women have endured so much through the centuries.

Tourist BS. nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just finished reading Wolf Hall. Thomas Cromwell is the main character but it is very much focused on Boleyn. That book definitely gives the impression that anne had a fair amount of agency — was active in planting religious reforms in Henry’s head (like having a. English gospel before it was legal). The whole notion of doing “everything but” with the king for seven years shows an extraordinary sense of will. And as PP pointed out, she really negotiated for a lot of benefits for herself prior to the marriage. It seems like she and Henry had a very volatile relationship though, and it’s at least implied that the sex wasn’t actually that good (plus the pregnancy dies limited that) so once they were married, their relationship faltered. There’s also some historical suggestion that Henry had a genetic blood condition that may have contributed to mental decline as he aged — eg paranoia.

I don’t know the evidence for her fidelity but I wouldn’t be surprised if she were having an affair if only to increase the odds of a male heir. Henry clearly had a problem and if her future hinges on a male heir it might have been fit to look for a sperm donor. I actually would love to see a dna analysis of Elizabeth I and Henry …. She is the only one of his kids that didn’t have massive health problems.

Guessing you’ve watched the miniseries, Wolf Hall. If you have not, it is a MUST SEE. You can purchase it on iTunes or Prime Video. I also heard today in a podcast that they are in production of The Mirror and the Light (the third of the Mantel trilogy).

I agree. Mark Rylance and Claire Foy are amazing in this series. I've watched it several times. If you still have a dvd player, you might be able to borrow it from your library as well.