Making religious comments without thinking

[Anonymous]

A secular country would be one in which the majority of people have neither a belief nor a disbelief in religion.

Most Americans consider themselves religious or spiritual in some way, while Christianity is the most widely professed religion in the United States, with Protestantism being the dominant form of Christianity in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A secular country would be one in which the majority of people have neither a belief nor a disbelief in religion.

Most Americans consider themselves religious or spiritual in some way, while Christianity is the most widely professed religion in the United States, with Protestantism being the dominant form of Christianity in the country.

That's not correct. A secular country is one with no official religion. That's us.
It's true though that when we started the puritans were very religious and all the presidents have to profess to be religious to get elected, but really it's an overwhelmingly secular country now. Our real religion is American secular consumerism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A secular country would be one in which the majority of people have neither a belief nor a disbelief in religion.

That's a definition you just made up. No one I have ever heard uses it.

A secular country is one whose government has no religion as part of its government and laws. Like ours. And unlike Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state

Most Americans consider themselves religious or spiritual in some way, while Christianity is the most widely professed religion in the United States, with Protestantism being the dominant form of Christianity in the country.

So what. And those numbers are dropping precipitously. "No religion" is by far the fastest growing belief group.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A secular country would be one in which the majority of people have neither a belief nor a disbelief in religion.

Most Americans consider themselves religious or spiritual in some way, while Christianity is the most widely professed religion in the United States, with Protestantism being the dominant form of Christianity in the country.

That's not correct. A secular country is one with no official religion. That's us.
It's true though that when we started the puritans were very religious and all the presidents have to profess to be religious to get elected, but really it's an overwhelmingly secular country now. Our real religion is American secular consumerism.

That is correct and that is us - the United States of America.

Seriously -- people may choose not to say they are atheist, but if they did, they would not be put in jail for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say I think OP is kind of trolling but I was at a bar the other night and was talking to a guy casually and kind of jokingly told him to give me his elevator pitch of who he was as a person and he kicked it off with 'I am a God fearing Christian' or something like that and I have to admit it took effort to keep the surprise off my face.

Of course there's nothing wrong with that, but it seemed like a very intense way to talk to a girl at a bar who was wearing black lipstick haha.

OP here. Definitely not trolling – genuinely curious, especially when I realized that as a society, we have managed to try to be kind to people who are in the minority. For example, the term "fag" and the usually pejoratively expressed “homosexual” changed over time to “gay” – a positive word. And Now there’s LGBTQ.

As a society, we’re moving away from unconsciously stigmatizing people who are not in the majority. I’d like to see it happen with people who don’t believe in God, too.

I’d sure like to hear from some religious people who think it’s a good idea to avoid using religious speech in secular settings.

I’m religious and I said in the second post on this thread that I don’t think it’s a good idea to ask people what church they belong to. I guess you missed it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Even though we live in a secular democracy, our world is more prone to religious thinking than it is to secular thinking. In real-life small talk and in comments on message boards like this one, people often put things in a religious context, sometimes without realizing or intending it. For people who want to be more sensitive about this when in a non-religious setting, here are some comments to avoid:

- “What church do you go to?”

- “I’ll pray for you.”

And a recent response on this forum to a former Southern Baptist who became an atheist:

- “This is why crap religions piss me off. You shouldn’t be denied a relationship with the eternal energy.”

(pp either doesn’t know or doesn’t care that atheists don’t believe in an eternal energy and thus don’t think in terms of being denied it.)

- “God bless you.”

(Even atheists will say “God bless you” after someone sneezes. It’s automatic! They don’t realize they’ve said it until it’s out. It’s not meant religiously even among religious people. It’s just our way of acknowledging a sneeze. Maybe we could get used to the European focus on health -- “Salud” or “Gesundheit.”)

Any other examples or ideas on how to handle it? Hope to hear from both religious and non-religious people.

You don't get to tell me how to live with my faith.

How to handle it? Not be a bigot

OK so no one gets to tell you how to deal with your faith, but you get to tell others how to deal with theirs.

You get to make religious statements to non-religious people, but they don't get to say what they believe to you.

That sounds very Christian to me.

You don't have a belief to express. But yes, biting back if a Christian says God bless or Muslim says inshaallah or whatever is obnoxious. Just live your life without needing to be argumentative or nasty. Live and let live

I don't have a belief to express? Says who?

How about this: you keep your beliefs to yourself and we'll have no problem at all. But that's not what you want. You want yours to be the only acceptable ones. Sorry, no. At least not until you are successful in getting your theocracy to change the constitution.

So if you get to say your religious things, people with different beliefs get to say theirs. Like the fact that there is insufficient evidence for what you believe and it is likely untrue.

/ps when people sneeze I say "salut" and it always works.

Do you attempt to correct coworkers and bosses explaining how their religious practices offend you and are "untrue?" just curious how that works

The point. You missed it. By a mile.

DP. OP (you?) asked how to handle religious language and the atheist’s post in question is quite aggressive, so there’s that.

Umm it was in response to

You don't get to tell me how to live with my faith.

How to handle it? Not be a bigot

Followed by

You don't have a belief to express.

Still feel it was "quite aggressive"? Which part?

Umm, the part where you said pp’s belief was “largely untrue.”

Big difference between that confrontational slam of religion and “bless you.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say I think OP is kind of trolling but I was at a bar the other night and was talking to a guy casually and kind of jokingly told him to give me his elevator pitch of who he was as a person and he kicked it off with 'I am a God fearing Christian' or something like that and I have to admit it took effort to keep the surprise off my face.

Of course there's nothing wrong with that, but it seemed like a very intense way to talk to a girl at a bar who was wearing black lipstick haha.

OP here. Definitely not trolling – genuinely curious, especially when I realized that as a society, we have managed to try to be kind to people who are in the minority. For example, the term "fag" and the usually pejoratively expressed “homosexual” changed over time to “gay” – a positive word. And Now there’s LGBTQ.

As a society, we’re moving away from unconsciously stigmatizing people who are not in the majority. I’d like to see it happen with people who don’t believe in God, too.

I’d sure like to hear from some religious people who think it’s a good idea to avoid using religious speech in secular settings.

I’m religious and I said in the second post on this thread that I don’t think it’s a good idea to ask people what church they belong to. I guess you missed it.

Ok definitely not the second post, I posted it several hours ago, but I definitely said I don’t think it’s good idea to ask somebody where they go to church.

Too bad you ignored it.

[Anonymous]

The absence of an established state religion does not mean that a country is secular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though we live in a secular democracy, our world is more prone to religious thinking than it is to secular thinking. In real-life small talk and in comments on message boards like this one, people often put things in a religious context, sometimes without realizing or intending it. For people who want to be more sensitive about this when in a non-religious setting, here are some comments to avoid:

- “What church do you go to?”

- “I’ll pray for you.”

And a recent response on this forum to a former Southern Baptist who became an atheist:

- “This is why crap religions piss me off. You shouldn’t be denied a relationship with the eternal energy.”

(pp either doesn’t know or doesn’t care that atheists don’t believe in an eternal energy and thus don’t think in terms of being denied it.)

- “God bless you.”

(Even atheists will say “God bless you” after someone sneezes. It’s automatic! They don’t realize they’ve said it until it’s out. It’s not meant religiously even among religious people. It’s just our way of acknowledging a sneeze. Maybe we could get used to the European focus on health -- “Salud” or “Gesundheit.”)

Any other examples or ideas on how to handle it? Hope to hear from both religious and non-religious people.

Bless your heart!


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE thereof;

How do you define "Free exercise"?

The Free Exercise Clause protects an individual's right not only to believe what he or she would like but also to practice it. The clause protects individuals from laws that would expressly inhibit them from engaging in religious practices.

We don’t personally define what it means. The meaning has already been established.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The absence of an established state religion does not mean that a country is secular.

It does mean the country is secular. Maybe you're thinking of the people living in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The absence of an established state religion does not mean that a country is secular.

It does mean the country is secular. Maybe you're thinking of the people living in the country.

NP. The original poster said "secular nation," which can definitely mean "the people" not merely the state. PP also followed that up with:

"The majority of those who live in this country are, and have always been, religious.

Many Americans practice Christianity, their individual beliefs have influenced society"

The meaning was very clear that most Americans are Christians and thus Christian belief underlies a lot of Americans culture.

[Anonymous]

I really think that being set off by incidental religious expressions suggests that the person disturbed by them has very little confidence in their own moral beliefs and is afraid they be missing something either positively or negatively.

For example, there are religions that do not eat pork. I come from an ethnic background where pork is a celebratory dish. It doesn’t bother me an iota when people mention that pork is against their religion. As long as they’re not picking a fight who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think that being set off by incidental religious expressions suggests that the person disturbed by them has very little confidence in their own moral beliefs and is afraid they be missing something either positively or negatively.

For example, there are religions that do not eat pork. I come from an ethnic background where pork is a celebratory dish. It doesn’t bother me an iota when people mention that pork is against their religion. As long as they’re not picking a fight who cares?

Would it bother you if they said they thought no one should eat pork? What if they offered you pork and were offended when you didn't take it? In that situation, would you tell them that in your religion pork is a celebratory dish? What if you were a vegetarian atheist - would you tell them that?

[Anonymous]

If someone goes rabid if I say "bless you" after they sneeze, then I know to avoid that person like a plague because they might have a personality disorder with endless potential perceived slights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even though we live in a secular democracy, our world is more prone to religious thinking than it is to secular thinking. In real-life small talk and in comments on message boards like this one, people often put things in a religious context, sometimes without realizing or intending it. For people who want to be more sensitive about this when in a non-religious setting, here are some comments to avoid:

- “What church do you go to?”

- “I’ll pray for you.”

And a recent response on this forum to a former Southern Baptist who became an atheist:

- “This is why crap religions piss me off. You shouldn’t be denied a relationship with the eternal energy.”

(pp either doesn’t know or doesn’t care that atheists don’t believe in an eternal energy and thus don’t think in terms of being denied it.)

- “God bless you.”

(Even atheists will say “God bless you” after someone sneezes. It’s automatic! They don’t realize they’ve said it until it’s out. It’s not meant religiously even among religious people. It’s just our way of acknowledging a sneeze. Maybe we could get used to the European focus on health -- “Salud” or “Gesundheit.”)

Any other examples or ideas on how to handle it? Hope to hear from both religious and non-religious people.

You don't get to tell me how to live with my faith.

How to handle it? Not be a bigot

OK so no one gets to tell you how to deal with your faith, but you get to tell others how to deal with theirs.

You get to make religious statements to non-religious people, but they don't get to say what they believe to you.

That sounds very Christian to me.

You don't have a belief to express. But yes, biting back if a Christian says God bless or Muslim says inshaallah or whatever is obnoxious. Just live your life without needing to be argumentative or nasty. Live and let live

I don't have a belief to express? Says who?

How about this: you keep your beliefs to yourself and we'll have no problem at all. But that's not what you want. You want yours to be the only acceptable ones. Sorry, no. At least not until you are successful in getting your theocracy to change the constitution.

So if you get to say your religious things, people with different beliefs get to say theirs. Like the fact that there is insufficient evidence for what you believe and it is likely untrue.

/ps when people sneeze I say "salut" and it always works.

Do you attempt to correct coworkers and bosses explaining how their religious practices offend you and are "untrue?" just curious how that works

The point. You missed it. By a mile.

DP. OP (you?) asked how to handle religious language and the atheist’s post in question is quite aggressive, so there’s that.

Umm it was in response to

You don't get to tell me how to live with my faith.

How to handle it? Not be a bigot

Followed by

You don't have a belief to express.

Still feel it was "quite aggressive"? Which part?

Umm, the part where you said pp’s belief was “largely untrue.”

Big difference between that confrontational slam of religion and “bless you.”

Exactly my point. You think one position is fine to express but the other is "aggressive". That's hypocrisy, and that makes you a hypocrite.