Are mean kids happy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You would never know how mean some kids & teens really are by chatting with them at a family gathering or any setting where there’s adults watching. They’re charming and hide their meanness VERY well!

This is something that drives me nuts sometimes. This is what differentiates "mean girl" behavior (or "relational aggression", which is what we should call it since boys can do it to) from bullying or just being a mean person.

A "mean girl" is rarely actually unpleasant, rude, or openly cruel to someone. Their cruelty is all done as subterfuge, often with plausible deniability ("oh I had not idea Larla was even there -- I certainly wasn't trying to exclude her"), and they are usually extremely good at working the refs. Meaning they can be very charming, helpful, even kind to parents, teachers, other popular kids, etc.

One of the meanest people I've ever encountered is best known in my home town for donating a kidney to a kid we went to school with. And while I'm really glad that kid got her kidney and don't deny that was a very kind thing to do, I also 100% believe she did it in part because she knew it would buy her a ton of goodwill to cover up for her incredibly controlling and nasty behavior. And it worked -- a few years later there was this huge problem with a team she was coaching and rampant bullying and harassment of the kids by the coaching staff, and there was no way she wasn't involved but she wound up being the only one not fired. I think people just couldn't reconcile the accusations with her image as just an incredibly kind and generous person, an image she carefully cultivated specifically to cover up what a terrible person she could be.

My high school guidance counselor, assigned based on the first letter of my last name, said multiple nasty things toward me, wrote nasty emails, routinely ignored emails and was just awful. Made me cry in front of her.

The year after I graduated, there was an article in my hometown’s local newspaper praising her as “Woman of the year of [insert name of city].” The article was gushing with praise for her on multiple fronts. I almost barfed reading it.

[Anonymous]

I was a mean girl all the way through high school and was very happy. I am smart and organized and outgoing, and felt like I knew better than all my friends so bossed them around, and gave them a hard time when they went against me. It wasn't until college and meeting a new friend who I found out was popular because she was so nice to everyone that I learned there was a different way. Learned a lot from her and changed my approach to relationships. I was a very happy kid, and am a happy adult, though as an adult maybe more at peace in my soul because I'm kinder than I used to be.

[Anonymous]

The mean girl from my college was pretty and snobbish. She married a gorgeous playwright and scion from a philanthropic family. Works for a great cause, but now is really really fat.

I think she is probably not a bad person but is deeply unhappy. She tortured some of my friends, but was ok to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a mean girl all the way through high school and was very happy. I am smart and organized and outgoing, and felt like I knew better than all my friends so bossed them around, and gave them a hard time when they went against me. It wasn't until college and meeting a new friend who I found out was popular because she was so nice to everyone that I learned there was a different way. Learned a lot from her and changed my approach to relationships. I was a very happy kid, and am a happy adult, though as an adult maybe more at peace in my soul because I'm kinder than I used to be.

. Your soul is at peace. Is your health good too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a mean girl all the way through high school and was very happy. I am smart and organized and outgoing, and felt like I knew better than all my friends so bossed them around, and gave them a hard time when they went against me. It wasn't until college and meeting a new friend who I found out was popular because she was so nice to everyone that I learned there was a different way. Learned a lot from her and changed my approach to relationships. I was a very happy kid, and am a happy adult, though as an adult maybe more at peace in my soul because I'm kinder than I used to be.

. Your soul is at peace. Is your health good too?

Lol, yes, I'm thriving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You would never know how mean some kids & teens really are by chatting with them at a family gathering or any setting where there’s adults watching. They’re charming and hide their meanness VERY well!

THIS. Times a million. Some of the MEANEST kids in my DD's year are the ones who the parents think are soooooooooooooooo nice. They've not heard how she talks out of earshot of them. The things she says about other people. The vicious texts she has sent. The exclusionary behavior she engages in.

Like most bullies and a-holes, these people hide it well. And when they act, it's not always obvious. They know just how far to go out in the open to have plausible deniability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The mean girl from my college was pretty and snobbish. She married a gorgeous playwright and scion from a philanthropic family. Works for a great cause, but now is really really fat.

I think she is probably not a bad person but is deeply unhappy. She tortured some of my friends, but was ok to me.

A mean girl in grade school had a perfect life for many years. She died at age 55 from ALS. So sad, like being buried alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd is on the receiving end of mean girl behavior in high school from a former friend. My dd is a sweet, empathetic kid and didn't do anything to deserve it. I know that people say there's always two sides of a story, but other people who know my kid and this situation say the same. And my dd isn't the only target of this particular girl. One parent commented to me that their daughter who is still friends with this girl is afraid to essentially be unfriended by said queen bee so she walks on eggshells around her.

So while I'm not happy that my dd is targeted, I'm relieved that they're no longer friends. I sometimes wonder about this queen bee mean girl in particular but also other mean kids. Is she happy because she is at the top of the social totem pole? Is she happy because she has this control and other people know it? Or is she deep down sad and insecure? Does she feel remorse for the way she's acting or does she justify it? Are bullies bullies because they are hiding something?

There are many sides to every story. Just because you think your DD is an angel and that those girls are bullies doesn’t mean that that’s even close to the case.

+1000 your perception is very unlikely to be accurate. Especially since you seem to be looking to validate that your DD’s frenimy is unhappy/miserable so as to make your DD superior, which is really pathetic. They are still kids. Lots of growth for all still to come.

Op here. I'm not trying to create a narrative that they're unhappy. My dd mentioned that ex friend is always happy because she appears to in school. That's what triggered my question, it made me wonder if she truly is happy, and if mean kids are secure or insecure. I've mentioned before my dd is not her only "victim".



[/quot

OP hopefully it’s not my child you are talking about? We really try hard to instill good values and kindness but our child has had to stand up on multiple occasions to defend herself - and sometimes standing up appears mean to others

This is not what most of us are talking about so if that's all your DD is doing, we're probably not talking about her.

[Anonymous]

My girls are in high school and college. Thinking back, the other girls from grade school and middle school who were the worst to them had parents who eventually divorced. Looking back, it's like they were projecting the negative energy on the home front on to their peers at school. Perhaps as a means of control, or seeking assert some sort of control, over what was happening behind the scenes at home with unhappy, checked-out parents. The girl who was worst of all to one of my daughters had parents hating each other and divorce during the middle school years. Suddenly, everything made sense to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good friend of mine’s DD is a mean girl. I’ve known her since she was a baby and the tendency was always there but her parents really contribute to it by giving a ton of positive feedback and attention for external “achievements” (looks, sports, anything where they can point out that she’s better than someone else). I have never heard them compliment her being kind, or acknowledge when she’s less than the best. It has given me a new understanding of how some people become mean girls. They believe they are only valuable in comparison to someone else. It’s a sad way to live.

There's something to this. I know kids like this with parents like this and I think these kids feel good a lot (because they are successful at meeting they standards their parents have set) but that this good feeling is very shadow and must be fed all the time.

One thing I struggle with in regards to my own DD is that she sees how these kids get lots of validation for their looks and athletic success and she also wants that validation, and doesn't always feel good when we praise her for being kind, patient, working hard, or helping others. She appreciates it, but she wants to shine like those other kids. And I get it, it's how I felt at that age, too.

She has her own strengths and I'm hoping as she gets older and those pay off more (right now being cute and good at sports is huge but as they get older, other things do start to matter), she will develop more confidence and feel less envious of those kids who are always in the limelight for looking the right way and having athletic skill. But it's so hard now, knowing she fantasizes about being the girl with the perfect, shiny hair who always looks pulled together and scores the winning goal and gets fawned over by all the adults, when she's the very kind, artistic and creative but painfully shy kid in the corner who always looks a little messy despite our best efforts. I think she is wonderful and smart and interesting and funny, but she doesn't shine like the other kids do and she gets overlooked a lot.

It's hard to have empathy for the kids getting constant praise in that context, even if I can see how it's hard for them, too.

[Anonymous]

When I went to my high school reunion I was in a food line and the man in front of me was friendly, making General comments about the food and looking at me as he was talking. I thought it was harmless and polite, I didn’t think he was flirting. I didn’t know he was the husband of the mean girl in my class until she rushed over and said, “what are you talking about?” and gave me an evil look. Like I was going to steal her husband! I realized how miserable she must be to be constantly threatened by girls who are prettier than her. Her behavior made sense then.

[Anonymous]

The meanest girl in my daughter's school has all the adults fooled. She's a Girl Scout, sporty, and generally participates in so many activities with smiles.

She also bullies a lot of kids in the class. I've been trying to convince my daughter not to be friends with her anymore - but it's hard because she's the center of their social group.

She seems happy but no one really knows do they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My girls are in high school and college. Thinking back, the other girls from grade school and middle school who were the worst to them had parents who eventually divorced. Looking back, it's like they were projecting the negative energy on the home front on to their peers at school. Perhaps as a means of control, or seeking assert some sort of control, over what was happening behind the scenes at home with unhappy, checked-out parents. The girl who was worst of all to one of my daughters had parents hating each other and divorce during the middle school years. Suddenly, everything made sense to me.

Yes, I find a lot of the mean girls that I knew from school, or that I see in my child's school have parents that divorced. They are so busy trying to make sure they kid is ok and showering attention on them, they don't realize what mean kids they have.

[Anonymous]

I was mean as a kid and didn't know I was unhappy until I stopped and thought about it later. I feel bad that I made so many of my friends unhappy. They didn't deserve it. They had stronger character than I do. I just felt so agitated by what I saw as others' shortcomings. I needed to get a conscience and eventually did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good friend of mine’s DD is a mean girl. I’ve known her since she was a baby and the tendency was always there but her parents really contribute to it by giving a ton of positive feedback and attention for external “achievements” (looks, sports, anything where they can point out that she’s better than someone else). I have never heard them compliment her being kind, or acknowledge when she’s less than the best. It has given me a new understanding of how some people become mean girls. They believe they are only valuable in comparison to someone else. It’s a sad way to live.

There's something to this. I know kids like this with parents like this and I think these kids feel good a lot (because they are successful at meeting they standards their parents have set) but that this good feeling is very shadow and must be fed all the time.

One thing I struggle with in regards to my own DD is that she sees how these kids get lots of validation for their looks and athletic success and she also wants that validation, and doesn't always feel good when we praise her for being kind, patient, working hard, or helping others. She appreciates it, but she wants to shine like those other kids. And I get it, it's how I felt at that age, too.

She has her own strengths and I'm hoping as she gets older and those pay off more (right now being cute and good at sports is huge but as they get older, other things do start to matter), she will develop more confidence and feel less envious of those kids who are always in the limelight for looking the right way and having athletic skill. But it's so hard now, knowing she fantasizes about being the girl with the perfect, shiny hair who always looks pulled together and scores the winning goal and gets fawned over by all the adults, when she's the very kind, artistic and creative but painfully shy kid in the corner who always looks a little messy despite our best efforts. I think she is wonderful and smart and interesting and funny, but she doesn't shine like the other kids do and she gets overlooked a lot.

It's hard to have empathy for the kids getting constant praise in that context, even if I can see how it's hard for them, too.

Keep your DD busy in activites that genuinely interest her. She'll find that she shines there and not worry so much about the kids who shine in other ways, whether they are mean or not. I'm trying to practice what I'm preaching, too