Why isn’t divorce justified if my wife lets herself slide or withholds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not what I signed up for.

What did SHE sign up for — and is she getting it? If you’re going to be entitled and transactional, it goes both ways. Also, pictures would be nice. If your wife’s body has changed slightly with time and perhaps pregnancies, and you’re a demanding wildebeest, that would be useful to know.

+1. OP, did you keep your girlish figure into middle age? Going bald or gray? ED?

I bet OP has a huge belly. Almost all middle aged men seem to. Did OP's DW sign up for the huge belly, unkempt hygiene, slob, doesn't do laundry, cook, help with kids?

What do you do, OP, to help your DW keep her girlish figure? Do you make $$$ so she can do to the gym; do you watch the kids; do you cook healthy meals?

Inquiring minds want to know, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not what I signed up for.

Did she sign up for more than 1/2 of childcare, housework, emotional abuse, etc.?

[Anonymous]

You can get divorced now, OP. No one is stopping you.

[Anonymous]

So lame to come to DCUM looking for validation. If your marriage isn't working, get a divorce - you sound like you resent and have contempt for her, so you would both be better off, as would your kids. You sound shallow and angry.

[Anonymous]

Eh, I dunno. DH and I made a pact that if we let ourselves go and become slobs/fat, we're allowed to divorce each other. (Not immediately - I think we said you have 2 years to get yourself together and spouse is on the hook for helping you get there whether it be exercising, dieting with you, or taking you to therapy appts - being good and supportive).

I think it's good to keep your body and mind in decent shape. For yourself and your spouse.

That said, I agree with the other PPs here - OP is probably a slob and lazy person himself, just given the nonexistent effort he put into this post and replying to messages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not what I signed up for.

Are you what she signed up for?

If you have a problem with ordinary aging, then you've got a rude awakening: none of us is getting out of this alive or unscathed.

That said, before you complain about the mother of your children being soft around the middle... do you have rock-hard abs? Because if she's squishy at least she has an excuse. If you're a fat load yourself, then guess what? You could bond over a fitness journey together. Congratulations! But also STFU.

I'm so grossed out by men who complain about their wives not being fit. Meanwhile, as a woman, I work out on the rowing machine at the gym next to these paunchy dad-bods and blow them out of the fake water. It's a little bit of fun proving to them that they're out of shape, especially compared to a 100lb women who's had 3 children. Just in case they want to belittle their wives, they can get a little taste of their own imperfections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's wrong to feel entitled to somebody else's body for the sake of your own gratification. Also the reason you wife is "letting herself slide" and "withholding" is because she doesn't want to look cute for or have sex with somebody who feels entitled to her body for his own gratification. You're not treating her like her own person with her own desires, feelings, etc.

As for divorce being justified, I dunno. Depends on how many innocents will be hurt by the divorce.

I’m a woman but I loathe this stance. Of course his wife should be treated like her own person, and likewise, she should be intimate with her husband; it’s part of marriage and if it’s not happening, it’s time for counseling. Nobody should be forced to endure a sexless marriage. And I say this as someone who lost my drive and struggle with this in my own marriage.

He may not be entitled to her body, but he’s entitled to divorce. The part about “letting herself go” does rub me the wrong way, though.

Jesus you are ridiculous move to Missouri with the other hand maids

DP and as psycho feminist as they come but I agree. No woman should be pressured into s3x. No woman should be forced into s3x. But those two central truisms are not incompatible with another truth, 'barring specific exceptional circumstances, people enter into marriage with the expectation of having regular s3x and not having s3x with your spouse will likely lead to a significant degradation in the quality of the relationship, up to and including divorce'.

'No one should have to endure a sexless marriage' is directly compatible with 'no one should be forced to have sex they don't want to have'. Both mean that both parties in the relationship have agency and can advocate for their own needs. Both mean that all relationships are voluntary, as they should be.

I think if someone is unhappy in a marriage and you can't work out an acceptable situation with your spouse, you should divorce, so this isn't me suggesting someone unhappy in a sexless marriage should stick out out. I don't care if they do or don't.

But I disagree with the bolded "truth". Unless it's been made explicit in your decision/agreement to get married that one or both partners expects regular sex throughout the entire marriage, I think most people assume sex is going to drop off after kids and in middle age. Plus if this is your expectation, you better have a conversation about what "regular" means and see if it matches your spouse because there are lots of people who would consider once-a-month sex to be regular, where as there are other people who consider that basically sexless.

While some people do maintain frequent sex after kids and as they get older, most couples drop off considerably during this time. When I got married in my early 30s, I did not assume we'd be maintaining our level of activity in perpetuity for the rest of our lives, and indeed, we haven't. In fact, for periods when we had very young kids, I would say our marriage was basically sexless for several years (like fewer than 6x a year). But no one involved was like "What?! I didn't sign up for this!" even if we were a little surprised by the degree by which sex decreased, because it was so obviously explainable by the circumstances -- hard pregnancies, PPD, normal newborn sleeplessness, very typical exhaustion from babies/toddlers/preschoolers. There is a solid 2 years in there where I went to bed at like 9:30 pretty much every night and was still exhausted 100% of the time and it is actually impressive we had sex at all during those years.

Just the audacity of thinking you can commit to a LIFELONG relationship with someone and expect sex to maintain the same consistency the entire time, regardless of life circumstances. If that's your expectation, you should definitely discuss it up front because I think it's really unrealistic for the average couple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, why do you still want to get with her if she's let herself slide? These seem like mutually exclusive problems.

This. Pick a lane OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's wrong to feel entitled to somebody else's body for the sake of your own gratification. Also the reason you wife is "letting herself slide" and "withholding" is because she doesn't want to look cute for or have sex with somebody who feels entitled to her body for his own gratification. You're not treating her like her own person with her own desires, feelings, etc.

As for divorce being justified, I dunno. Depends on how many innocents will be hurt by the divorce.

I’m a woman but I loathe this stance. Of course his wife should be treated like her own person, and likewise, she should be intimate with her husband; it’s part of marriage and if it’s not happening, it’s time for counseling. Nobody should be forced to endure a sexless marriage. And I say this as someone who lost my drive and struggle with this in my own marriage.

He may not be entitled to her body, but he’s entitled to divorce. The part about “letting herself go” does rub me the wrong way, though.

Jesus you are ridiculous move to Missouri with the other hand maids

DP and as psycho feminist as they come but I agree. No woman should be pressured into s3x. No woman should be forced into s3x. But those two central truisms are not incompatible with another truth, 'barring specific exceptional circumstances, people enter into marriage with the expectation of having regular s3x and not having s3x with your spouse will likely lead to a significant degradation in the quality of the relationship, up to and including divorce'.

'No one should have to endure a sexless marriage' is directly compatible with 'no one should be forced to have sex they don't want to have'. Both mean that both parties in the relationship have agency and can advocate for their own needs. Both mean that all relationships are voluntary, as they should be.

I think if someone is unhappy in a marriage and you can't work out an acceptable situation with your spouse, you should divorce, so this isn't me suggesting someone unhappy in a sexless marriage should stick out out. I don't care if they do or don't.

But I disagree with the bolded "truth". Unless it's been made explicit in your decision/agreement to get married that one or both partners expects regular sex throughout the entire marriage, I think most people assume sex is going to drop off after kids and in middle age. Plus if this is your expectation, you better have a conversation about what "regular" means and see if it matches your spouse because there are lots of people who would consider once-a-month sex to be regular, where as there are other people who consider that basically sexless.

While some people do maintain frequent sex after kids and as they get older, most couples drop off considerably during this time. When I got married in my early 30s, I did not assume we'd be maintaining our level of activity in perpetuity for the rest of our lives, and indeed, we haven't. In fact, for periods when we had very young kids, I would say our marriage was basically sexless for several years (like fewer than 6x a year). But no one involved was like "What?! I didn't sign up for this!" even if we were a little surprised by the degree by which sex decreased, because it was so obviously explainable by the circumstances -- hard pregnancies, PPD, normal newborn sleeplessness, very typical exhaustion from babies/toddlers/preschoolers. There is a solid 2 years in there where I went to bed at like 9:30 pretty much every night and was still exhausted 100% of the time and it is actually impressive we had sex at all during those years.

Just the audacity of thinking you can commit to a LIFELONG relationship with someone and expect sex to maintain the same consistency the entire time, regardless of life circumstances. If that's your expectation, you should definitely discuss it up front because I think it's really unrealistic for the average couple.

This is sad

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by “justified?” Marriage is not an obligation. If you are unhappy, divorce. Own your decisions and don’t blame others for your circumstances. Unhappy? LEAVE.

[Anonymous]

You can divorce for whatever reason you wish. It's called irreconcilable differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You signed up to rape someone at will and control their body? Weird.

You're the weird one. Like, what?

[Anonymous]

The women on this site are so weird. No one would want to stay married to an overweight slob who doesn't even want to have sex. That goes both ways. Y'all are delusional. Get real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's wrong to feel entitled to somebody else's body for the sake of your own gratification. Also the reason you wife is "letting herself slide" and "withholding" is because she doesn't want to look cute for or have sex with somebody who feels entitled to her body for his own gratification. You're not treating her like her own person with her own desires, feelings, etc.

As for divorce being justified, I dunno. Depends on how many innocents will be hurt by the divorce.

I’m a woman but I loathe this stance. Of course his wife should be treated like her own person, and likewise, she should be intimate with her husband; it’s part of marriage and if it’s not happening, it’s time for counseling. Nobody should be forced to endure a sexless marriage. And I say this as someone who lost my drive and struggle with this in my own marriage.

He may not be entitled to her body, but he’s entitled to divorce. The part about “letting herself go” does rub me the wrong way, though.

Jesus you are ridiculous move to Missouri with the other hand maids

That’s the regular man pretending to be a woman poster. They’re terrible at it, but they keep trying.

[Anonymous]

Nothing weird about telling a man he better not be a fat unattractive slob who doesn't know how to flirt and be romantically attentive to his wife - before he bloviates about how she's letting herself go.

I won't listen to jackasses.