Big game? Who cares - The NFL, and football in general is worthless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some valid points hidden in that looney-tune rant,

But people loose all credibility when they say that 'football is dying'

It's not. It's thriving. And post-pandemic, youth football participation is increasing.

the game is changing and its locked in as the nation's top sport

Talk about losing credibility - you claim that youth participation is increasing when it's declining:

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-01-24/youth-football-participation-declining-amid-safety-concerns

And it will continue to do so - the talent pipeline is drying up as informed parents who understand the real risks to long term brain health opt for more sensible options for sport.

They(NFL) are making a hard pitch for flag football, which I'm sure is increasing, and they are pitching this to woman, which by any measure is welcomed but at the same time only shows how desperate they are.


They game will still need to substantially and fundamentally change more if it is to remain viable in the long term.

Gee, I wonder what was happening in the 21-22 school year that may have caused football participation to plummet.

Locally, football is increasing: fredericknewspost.com/sports/level/high_school/numbers-are-up-in-football-programs-across-the-county/article_aab5a040-a674-5b6a-af8b-a1ce3c4d4d78.html

For the first time in years, schools are actuallying having to cut players.

It's not what it appears. If you read the article completely, you'll find:

" [...] For one, school enrollments are increasing dramatically across the board ahead of reclassification next year.

Oakdale, which straddled the line between Class 2A and 3A for a long time, is now pushing 4A status. So are Linganore and Frederick High, two longtime 3A schools, and Thomas Johnson, which used to be a 4A school before dropping to 3A. [...]"


So the "increase" in the numbers in this particular small, local instance(Fredrick Co. MD) of perceived increase, is due not to the increase of popularity or interest, it is due to an increase in overall enrollment in the school system, school populations are in some cases almost doubling in size in a very short period of time. In other words, the data need to be normalized or looked at on a "per-capita" basis.

Overall on a larger scale nationally youth participation in contact football has been trending down, not just during COVID, but it's now been trending down for about 15 years and there is no end in sight. Which of course makes sense since there is much better awareness overall of the adverse impact on long term brain health due to the repeated sub-concussive blows that are at the very core nature of the game - there's just no getting around that fact.

Sigh.

Overall, ALL of youth sports is experiencing a decline. Not just football. It was something like a 15% drop in participation in youth sports in the last 10 or 15 years.

I don't know why I always let you trigger me. I know you're a troll that looks for any reason to hate on football, but I always respond. I need to do better at ignoring your posts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Playing football is voluntary. I’d love to see some non-white old men owners.

This, and at this stage you really can't argue that anyone is being tricked into it or doesn't understand the risks. If you have ever talked to a pro football player, they are all in and have zero interest in people like OP "protecting" them from making money playing a game they love and have chosen to play.

Also, pro football players are adults who belong to a union and get a decent amount of financial education and support (from their union, from college programs, etc. -- there's a big push to make sure pro athletes have the tools they need to manage money and make good choices). Most of the major pro leagues in the US (baseball, NBA, football) have good protections in place to help players plan for their time after playing, get access to quality health care, take care of their families, etc. Are the leagues perfect? No. But they have strong unions that work to protect players, which is more than can be said for 99% of workers in this country.

Compare that to sports where the athletes are often minors, are subject to many of the same physical risks, and there is an actual history of true abuse and exploitation. Women's gymnastics, for instance. The US gymnastics team employed an actual pedophile FOR YEARS who was allowed to treat girls as young as 9 or 10 years old without another adult present, while these girls were staying at training facilities away from their families. You want to compare the NFL to the plantations system? NFL players get paychecks, are adults, and can leave whenever they want.

Anyway, the fact that the owners are mostly rich guys born to rich parents is an indictment of the American class system, not football itself. We could eliminate the NFL tomorrow and those guys would still be rich and still find a way to take advantage of their wealth in order to put other people (especially people from poor backgrounds, especially POC) under their control. That's how our capitalist system works. Again, at least NFL players have unions! And make decent money. How about all the rich white guys who own news outlets and pay journalists, who perform a vital public service, poverty wages and gatekeeper so mostly only other rich white people can enter the industry? What about all the rich white guys who own manufacturing companies that outsource all their factories to countries with minimal labor laws and employ children and people in poverty to crank out consumer goods? What about all the rich white guys who control the American food industry and exploit migrant workers for cheap labor while also railing against immigrants in their politics?

The idea that the NFL is somehow a problem and people should stop playing/watching a game they enjoy because of social justice is laughable. I get it, you don't like football. That's fine, go find something else to do on Sunday and leave us alone.

+100

Plus, dollars to donuts, I bet half these self-righteous anti-NFL dorks watched every minute they could of the World Cup (despite not watching a minute of since the last world cup 4 years ag0), called it 'the real football', acted superior, and totally ignored all the corruption, explotation and human right violations associated with that sport.

Just STFU and let us watch the sports we like

This. If you are worked up about the NFL being a "plantation system" and the Super Bowl being overly commercialized, but follow international soccer and claim it's somehow a better sport, I dare you to explain the economics and politics of the World Cup to me. They sold the World Cup to a country that used slave labor to build the stadiums, many of those people died, and then women and LGBTQ+ people were afraid to attend because of the politics of the host country and those stadiums were half full due to low attendance.

The NFL is flawed and I loathe Roger Goodell and think a lot of the owners are parasites, but football itself is an entertaining sport played by amazing, skilled athletes. There are far worse examples of exploitative sports in the world, starting with soccer.

Classic deflection / "whataboutism" -- Not once has Soccer been raised as a model or blueprint for the NFL/football to follow so why do all the football fans insist on bringing up the flaws of Soccer to somehow defend the issues of the NFL/football that have been raised? It provides no defense to the issues raised about Football.

Having said that - the one very obvious difference between the two is there isn't the risk of adverse impact on long-term brain health associated with playing Soccer that there is in Football.

Lol. Tell me you know nothing about soccer injuries without telling me.

Football has a slightly higher concussion rate, but its just a few points higher (especially girls soccer, if I recall, which has a higher rate of concussions compared to boys soccer for some reason)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some valid points hidden in that looney-tune rant,

But people loose all credibility when they say that 'football is dying'

It's not. It's thriving. And post-pandemic, youth football participation is increasing.

the game is changing and its locked in as the nation's top sport

Talk about losing credibility - you claim that youth participation is increasing when it's declining:

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-01-24/youth-football-participation-declining-amid-safety-concerns

And it will continue to do so - the talent pipeline is drying up as informed parents who understand the real risks to long term brain health opt for more sensible options for sport.

They(NFL) are making a hard pitch for flag football, which I'm sure is increasing, and they are pitching this to woman, which by any measure is welcomed but at the same time only shows how desperate they are.


They game will still need to substantially and fundamentally change more if it is to remain viable in the long term.

Gee, I wonder what was happening in the 21-22 school year that may have caused football participation to plummet.

Locally, football is increasing: fredericknewspost.com/sports/level/high_school/numbers-are-up-in-football-programs-across-the-county/article_aab5a040-a674-5b6a-af8b-a1ce3c4d4d78.html

For the first time in years, schools are actuallying having to cut players.

It's not what it appears. If you read the article completely, you'll find:

" [...] For one, school enrollments are increasing dramatically across the board ahead of reclassification next year.

Oakdale, which straddled the line between Class 2A and 3A for a long time, is now pushing 4A status. So are Linganore and Frederick High, two longtime 3A schools, and Thomas Johnson, which used to be a 4A school before dropping to 3A. [...]"


So the "increase" in the numbers in this particular small, local instance(Fredrick Co. MD) of perceived increase, is due not to the increase of popularity or interest, it is due to an increase in overall enrollment in the school system, school populations are in some cases almost doubling in size in a very short period of time. In other words, the data need to be normalized or looked at on a "per-capita" basis.

Overall on a larger scale nationally youth participation in contact football has been trending down, not just during COVID, but it's now been trending down for about 15 years and there is no end in sight. Which of course makes sense since there is much better awareness overall of the adverse impact on long term brain health due to the repeated sub-concussive blows that are at the very core nature of the game - there's just no getting around that fact.

Sigh.

Overall, ALL of youth sports is experiencing a decline. Not just football. It was something like a 15% drop in participation in youth sports in the last 10 or 15 years.

I don't know why I always let you trigger me. I know you're a troll that looks for any reason to hate on football, but I always respond. I need to do better at ignoring your posts

Well, there just might be a glimmer of hope for you then -- you react to someone who speaks what you deep down know to be the truth so of course you can't not respond.

There is a decline in TEAM sports over a similar period but some of that has been replaced by individual sports/physical activity and decline in participation in contact football has been greater over the past decade. Even the NFL themselves know and admit this so I'm not sure why you and others continue with the denial other than it help you cope. The decline all makes perfect sense from the standpoint of what parent availed of all the information we now know would voluntarily sign their under 15(pre-high school) child up for long-term brain damage? Of course all but the poor and uninformed/uneducated will take a pass on this unnecessary risk to their child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Playing football is voluntary. I’d love to see some non-white old men owners.

This, and at this stage you really can't argue that anyone is being tricked into it or doesn't understand the risks. If you have ever talked to a pro football player, they are all in and have zero interest in people like OP "protecting" them from making money playing a game they love and have chosen to play.

Also, pro football players are adults who belong to a union and get a decent amount of financial education and support (from their union, from college programs, etc. -- there's a big push to make sure pro athletes have the tools they need to manage money and make good choices). Most of the major pro leagues in the US (baseball, NBA, football) have good protections in place to help players plan for their time after playing, get access to quality health care, take care of their families, etc. Are the leagues perfect? No. But they have strong unions that work to protect players, which is more than can be said for 99% of workers in this country.

Compare that to sports where the athletes are often minors, are subject to many of the same physical risks, and there is an actual history of true abuse and exploitation. Women's gymnastics, for instance. The US gymnastics team employed an actual pedophile FOR YEARS who was allowed to treat girls as young as 9 or 10 years old without another adult present, while these girls were staying at training facilities away from their families. You want to compare the NFL to the plantations system? NFL players get paychecks, are adults, and can leave whenever they want.

Anyway, the fact that the owners are mostly rich guys born to rich parents is an indictment of the American class system, not football itself. We could eliminate the NFL tomorrow and those guys would still be rich and still find a way to take advantage of their wealth in order to put other people (especially people from poor backgrounds, especially POC) under their control. That's how our capitalist system works. Again, at least NFL players have unions! And make decent money. How about all the rich white guys who own news outlets and pay journalists, who perform a vital public service, poverty wages and gatekeeper so mostly only other rich white people can enter the industry? What about all the rich white guys who own manufacturing companies that outsource all their factories to countries with minimal labor laws and employ children and people in poverty to crank out consumer goods? What about all the rich white guys who control the American food industry and exploit migrant workers for cheap labor while also railing against immigrants in their politics?

The idea that the NFL is somehow a problem and people should stop playing/watching a game they enjoy because of social justice is laughable. I get it, you don't like football. That's fine, go find something else to do on Sunday and leave us alone.

+100

Plus, dollars to donuts, I bet half these self-righteous anti-NFL dorks watched every minute they could of the World Cup (despite not watching a minute of since the last world cup 4 years ag0), called it 'the real football', acted superior, and totally ignored all the corruption, explotation and human right violations associated with that sport.

Just STFU and let us watch the sports we like

This. If you are worked up about the NFL being a "plantation system" and the Super Bowl being overly commercialized, but follow international soccer and claim it's somehow a better sport, I dare you to explain the economics and politics of the World Cup to me. They sold the World Cup to a country that used slave labor to build the stadiums, many of those people died, and then women and LGBTQ+ people were afraid to attend because of the politics of the host country and those stadiums were half full due to low attendance.

The NFL is flawed and I loathe Roger Goodell and think a lot of the owners are parasites, but football itself is an entertaining sport played by amazing, skilled athletes. There are far worse examples of exploitative sports in the world, starting with soccer.

Classic deflection / "whataboutism" -- Not once has Soccer been raised as a model or blueprint for the NFL/football to follow so why do all the football fans insist on bringing up the flaws of Soccer to somehow defend the issues of the NFL/football that have been raised? It provides no defense to the issues raised about Football.

Having said that - the one very obvious difference between the two is there isn't the risk of adverse impact on long-term brain health associated with playing Soccer that there is in Football.

Lol. Tell me you know nothing about soccer injuries without telling me.

Football has a slightly higher concussion rate, but its just a few points higher (especially girls soccer, if I recall, which has a higher rate of concussions compared to boys soccer for some reason)

That must be a nervous "lol" because you seem confused - let me see if I can help you understand better.

Concussions are only part of the story/contributing factor to CTE and long-term brain health, not the ONLY factor.

So to just do an x to y comparison of concussion rate is just wrong.

The current research shows that the many, many sub-concussive blows that take place over years likely play more of a role in CTE and long-term brain health. So, whereas these sub-concussive blows are a core part of and fundamental to the sport of football, they are not and only occasional/incidental to soccer.

It's not that there is no risk of CTE from a career in soccer it that it's far, far less than football.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some valid points hidden in that looney-tune rant,

But people loose all credibility when they say that 'football is dying'

It's not. It's thriving. And post-pandemic, youth football participation is increasing.

the game is changing and its locked in as the nation's top sport

Talk about losing credibility - you claim that youth participation is increasing when it's declining:

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-01-24/youth-football-participation-declining-amid-safety-concerns

And it will continue to do so - the talent pipeline is drying up as informed parents who understand the real risks to long term brain health opt for more sensible options for sport.

They(NFL) are making a hard pitch for flag football, which I'm sure is increasing, and they are pitching this to woman, which by any measure is welcomed but at the same time only shows how desperate they are.


They game will still need to substantially and fundamentally change more if it is to remain viable in the long term.

Gee, I wonder what was happening in the 21-22 school year that may have caused football participation to plummet.

Locally, football is increasing: fredericknewspost.com/sports/level/high_school/numbers-are-up-in-football-programs-across-the-county/article_aab5a040-a674-5b6a-af8b-a1ce3c4d4d78.html

For the first time in years, schools are actuallying having to cut players.

It's not what it appears. If you read the article completely, you'll find:

" [...] For one, school enrollments are increasing dramatically across the board ahead of reclassification next year.

Oakdale, which straddled the line between Class 2A and 3A for a long time, is now pushing 4A status. So are Linganore and Frederick High, two longtime 3A schools, and Thomas Johnson, which used to be a 4A school before dropping to 3A. [...]"


So the "increase" in the numbers in this particular small, local instance(Fredrick Co. MD) of perceived increase, is due not to the increase of popularity or interest, it is due to an increase in overall enrollment in the school system, school populations are in some cases almost doubling in size in a very short period of time. In other words, the data need to be normalized or looked at on a "per-capita" basis.

Overall on a larger scale nationally youth participation in contact football has been trending down, not just during COVID, but it's now been trending down for about 15 years and there is no end in sight. Which of course makes sense since there is much better awareness overall of the adverse impact on long term brain health due to the repeated sub-concussive blows that are at the very core nature of the game - there's just no getting around that fact.

Sigh.

Overall, ALL of youth sports is experiencing a decline. Not just football. It was something like a 15% drop in participation in youth sports in the last 10 or 15 years.

I don't know why I always let you trigger me. I know you're a troll that looks for any reason to hate on football, but I always respond. I need to do better at ignoring your posts

This,

Not sure why this person routinely goes to multiple different threads to troll on football, but its honestly pretty sad and pathetic.

It's no secret that families that let their kids play tackle know the risk, and accept the risk. It's also no secret that most families report that they are satisfied with their decision.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with threads like this? Feel superior to other parents bc you have a higher risk tolerance? Is that the endgame?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some valid points hidden in that looney-tune rant,

But people loose all credibility when they say that 'football is dying'

It's not. It's thriving. And post-pandemic, youth football participation is increasing.

the game is changing and its locked in as the nation's top sport

Talk about losing credibility - you claim that youth participation is increasing when it's declining:

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-01-24/youth-football-participation-declining-amid-safety-concerns

And it will continue to do so - the talent pipeline is drying up as informed parents who understand the real risks to long term brain health opt for more sensible options for sport.

They(NFL) are making a hard pitch for flag football, which I'm sure is increasing, and they are pitching this to woman, which by any measure is welcomed but at the same time only shows how desperate they are.


They game will still need to substantially and fundamentally change more if it is to remain viable in the long term.

Gee, I wonder what was happening in the 21-22 school year that may have caused football participation to plummet.

Locally, football is increasing: fredericknewspost.com/sports/level/high_school/numbers-are-up-in-football-programs-across-the-county/article_aab5a040-a674-5b6a-af8b-a1ce3c4d4d78.html

For the first time in years, schools are actuallying having to cut players.

It's not what it appears. If you read the article completely, you'll find:

" [...] For one, school enrollments are increasing dramatically across the board ahead of reclassification next year.

Oakdale, which straddled the line between Class 2A and 3A for a long time, is now pushing 4A status. So are Linganore and Frederick High, two longtime 3A schools, and Thomas Johnson, which used to be a 4A school before dropping to 3A. [...]"


So the "increase" in the numbers in this particular small, local instance(Fredrick Co. MD) of perceived increase, is due not to the increase of popularity or interest, it is due to an increase in overall enrollment in the school system, school populations are in some cases almost doubling in size in a very short period of time. In other words, the data need to be normalized or looked at on a "per-capita" basis.

Overall on a larger scale nationally youth participation in contact football has been trending down, not just during COVID, but it's now been trending down for about 15 years and there is no end in sight. Which of course makes sense since there is much better awareness overall of the adverse impact on long term brain health due to the repeated sub-concussive blows that are at the very core nature of the game - there's just no getting around that fact.

Sigh.

Overall, ALL of youth sports is experiencing a decline. Not just football. It was something like a 15% drop in participation in youth sports in the last 10 or 15 years.

I don't know why I always let you trigger me. I know you're a troll that looks for any reason to hate on football, but I always respond. I need to do better at ignoring your posts

This,

Not sure why this person routinely goes to multiple different threads to troll on football, but its honestly pretty sad and pathetic.

It's no secret that families that let their kids play tackle know the risk, and accept the risk. It's also no secret that most families report that they are satisfied with their decision.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with threads like this? Feel superior to other parents bc you have a higher risk tolerance? Is that the endgame?

Do they really know the risk they are accepting, though? ... not to mention they aren't really "accepting risk" they are exposing their child to unnecessary risk of impaired long-term brain health would be the more truthful way to phrase it.

Also, not directly related to this discussion but worth mentioning is that people are generally awful at understanding/estimating risk:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/smarter-living/why-youre-probably-not-so-great-at-risk-assessment.html


Findings from a paper published in 2017:

Led by Drs. Jesse Mez and Dan Daneshvar, the authors examined a case series of 202 former American football players, finding CTE in 99% of the NFL players studied, 91% of the college football players, and 21% of the high school players. This paper received widespread global attention as it put a spotlight on the burgeoning research into the issue of CTE in football players.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28742910/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some valid points hidden in that looney-tune rant,

But people loose all credibility when they say that 'football is dying'

It's not. It's thriving. And post-pandemic, youth football participation is increasing.

the game is changing and its locked in as the nation's top sport

Talk about losing credibility - you claim that youth participation is increasing when it's declining:

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-01-24/youth-football-participation-declining-amid-safety-concerns

And it will continue to do so - the talent pipeline is drying up as informed parents who understand the real risks to long term brain health opt for more sensible options for sport.

They(NFL) are making a hard pitch for flag football, which I'm sure is increasing, and they are pitching this to woman, which by any measure is welcomed but at the same time only shows how desperate they are.


They game will still need to substantially and fundamentally change more if it is to remain viable in the long term.

Gee, I wonder what was happening in the 21-22 school year that may have caused football participation to plummet.

Locally, football is increasing: fredericknewspost.com/sports/level/high_school/numbers-are-up-in-football-programs-across-the-county/article_aab5a040-a674-5b6a-af8b-a1ce3c4d4d78.html

For the first time in years, schools are actuallying having to cut players.

It's not what it appears. If you read the article completely, you'll find:

" [...] For one, school enrollments are increasing dramatically across the board ahead of reclassification next year.

Oakdale, which straddled the line between Class 2A and 3A for a long time, is now pushing 4A status. So are Linganore and Frederick High, two longtime 3A schools, and Thomas Johnson, which used to be a 4A school before dropping to 3A. [...]"


So the "increase" in the numbers in this particular small, local instance(Fredrick Co. MD) of perceived increase, is due not to the increase of popularity or interest, it is due to an increase in overall enrollment in the school system, school populations are in some cases almost doubling in size in a very short period of time. In other words, the data need to be normalized or looked at on a "per-capita" basis.

Overall on a larger scale nationally youth participation in contact football has been trending down, not just during COVID, but it's now been trending down for about 15 years and there is no end in sight. Which of course makes sense since there is much better awareness overall of the adverse impact on long term brain health due to the repeated sub-concussive blows that are at the very core nature of the game - there's just no getting around that fact.

Sigh.

Overall, ALL of youth sports is experiencing a decline. Not just football. It was something like a 15% drop in participation in youth sports in the last 10 or 15 years.

I don't know why I always let you trigger me. I know you're a troll that looks for any reason to hate on football, but I always respond. I need to do better at ignoring your posts

This,

Not sure why this person routinely goes to multiple different threads to troll on football, but its honestly pretty sad and pathetic.

It's no secret that families that let their kids play tackle know the risk, and accept the risk. It's also no secret that most families report that they are satisfied with their decision.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with threads like this? Feel superior to other parents bc you have a higher risk tolerance? Is that the endgame?

Do they really know the risk they are accepting, though? ... not to mention they aren't really "accepting risk" they are exposing their child to unnecessary risk of impaired long-term brain health would be the more truthful way to phrase it.

Also, not directly related to this discussion but worth mentioning is that people are generally awful at understanding/estimating risk:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/smarter-living/why-youre-probably-not-so-great-at-risk-assessment.html


Findings from a paper published in 2017:

Led by Drs. Jesse Mez and Dan Daneshvar, the authors examined a case series of 202 former American football players, finding CTE in 99% of the NFL players studied, 91% of the college football players, and 21% of the high school players. This paper received widespread global attention as it put a spotlight on the burgeoning research into the issue of CTE in football players.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28742910/

FYI - I'm a risk manager

Also, research shows people tend to both overestimate AND underestimate risks, often based off their personal biases. Basically, we generally approach risk from an emotional state of mind, not a logical/practical one.

Which is what both of us are doing right now.

But to answer your question, yes, most people are aware of the injury risks of tackle football. Those that allow their children to do likely underestimate the risk. Those that say no based off the risk are likely overestimating it. Especially those that say no to football out of risk of injury but allow other contact sports. People think that is a good mitigation; a small reduction based on switching sports would be considered an ineffectual mitigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The whole enterprise leverages historical racist plantation construct and is, in and of itself, systemically racist, exploitative, and most of all, detrimental to the long term health and brain health to mostly minorities who play.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/league-of-denial/

Eff the NFL

Whereas blacks comprise roughly 13% of the population in the USA overall, they make up 70% of the NFL.

If we look at the makeup of positions, Center and QB are really the only positions that are more "white" as a percentage.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/

There are now about one third of the teams with starting QBs who are black(up from 5 in 2017) but this still then begs the question of the imbalance of ownership, leadership and management vis-a-vis the player makeup.

So, even given the health repercussions of the game, one could possibly make an argument in its favor if the ownership, leadership and management looked even just a hint of what the player makeup looks like, since there is real danger and detriment to long-term health and brain health/function for those who step on the field. But it doesn't . Not even close:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-racial-divide-one-chart-154059660.html

There is another aspect to this that I won't get into in detail but that is Government "promotion" of this morally corrupt enterprise through favorable tax code, tax incentives and other regulation and zoning.

Another related discussion/debate would be the big business of College Football and its exploitation of minorities vs. the risks of health and brain health as discussed above and how they(and indirectly state governments via tax dollars) subsidize the NFL.

I don't have a solution to propose. Personally, I think that the NFL/Football as it currently exists is dying. It's decline or evolution may be decades in the making but it will need to change drastically or become extinct. I think this is something that people should be aware of but I find in discussing it, most people really haven't given this much thought.

What say you, DCUM?




zyxt

I say you are a nutcase and this thread doesn't belong in sports. i think jeff should delete

lol - how's this working out for you?

[Anonymous]

It's called the Super Bowl, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some valid points hidden in that looney-tune rant,

But people loose all credibility when they say that 'football is dying'

It's not. It's thriving. And post-pandemic, youth football participation is increasing.

the game is changing and its locked in as the nation's top sport

Talk about losing credibility - you claim that youth participation is increasing when it's declining:

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-01-24/youth-football-participation-declining-amid-safety-concerns

And it will continue to do so - the talent pipeline is drying up as informed parents who understand the real risks to long term brain health opt for more sensible options for sport.

They(NFL) are making a hard pitch for flag football, which I'm sure is increasing, and they are pitching this to woman, which by any measure is welcomed but at the same time only shows how desperate they are.


They game will still need to substantially and fundamentally change more if it is to remain viable in the long term.

Gee, I wonder what was happening in the 21-22 school year that may have caused football participation to plummet.

Locally, football is increasing: fredericknewspost.com/sports/level/high_school/numbers-are-up-in-football-programs-across-the-county/article_aab5a040-a674-5b6a-af8b-a1ce3c4d4d78.html

For the first time in years, schools are actuallying having to cut players.

It's not what it appears. If you read the article completely, you'll find:

" [...] For one, school enrollments are increasing dramatically across the board ahead of reclassification next year.

Oakdale, which straddled the line between Class 2A and 3A for a long time, is now pushing 4A status. So are Linganore and Frederick High, two longtime 3A schools, and Thomas Johnson, which used to be a 4A school before dropping to 3A. [...]"


So the "increase" in the numbers in this particular small, local instance(Fredrick Co. MD) of perceived increase, is due not to the increase of popularity or interest, it is due to an increase in overall enrollment in the school system, school populations are in some cases almost doubling in size in a very short period of time. In other words, the data need to be normalized or looked at on a "per-capita" basis.

Overall on a larger scale nationally youth participation in contact football has been trending down, not just during COVID, but it's now been trending down for about 15 years and there is no end in sight. Which of course makes sense since there is much better awareness overall of the adverse impact on long term brain health due to the repeated sub-concussive blows that are at the very core nature of the game - there's just no getting around that fact.

Sigh.

Overall, ALL of youth sports is experiencing a decline. Not just football. It was something like a 15% drop in participation in youth sports in the last 10 or 15 years.

I don't know why I always let you trigger me. I know you're a troll that looks for any reason to hate on football, but I always respond. I need to do better at ignoring your posts

This,

Not sure why this person routinely goes to multiple different threads to troll on football, but its honestly pretty sad and pathetic.

It's no secret that families that let their kids play tackle know the risk, and accept the risk. It's also no secret that most families report that they are satisfied with their decision.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with threads like this? Feel superior to other parents bc you have a higher risk tolerance? Is that the endgame?

Do they really know the risk they are accepting, though? ... not to mention they aren't really "accepting risk" they are exposing their child to unnecessary risk of impaired long-term brain health would be the more truthful way to phrase it.

Also, not directly related to this discussion but worth mentioning is that people are generally awful at understanding/estimating risk:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/smarter-living/why-youre-probably-not-so-great-at-risk-assessment.html


Findings from a paper published in 2017:

Led by Drs. Jesse Mez and Dan Daneshvar, the authors examined a case series of 202 former American football players, finding CTE in 99% of the NFL players studied, 91% of the college football players, and 21% of the high school players. This paper received widespread global attention as it put a spotlight on the burgeoning research into the issue of CTE in football players.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28742910/

FYI - I'm a risk manager

Also, research shows people tend to both overestimate AND underestimate risks, often based off their personal biases. Basically, we generally approach risk from an emotional state of mind, not a logical/practical one.

Which is what both of us are doing right now.

But to answer your question, yes, most people are aware of the injury risks of tackle football. Those that allow their children to do likely underestimate the risk. Those that say no based off the risk are likely overestimating it. Especially those that say no to football out of risk of injury but allow other contact sports. People think that is a good mitigation; a small reduction based on switching sports would be considered an ineffectual mitigation.

Fair enough

I think you are more the exception than the rule.

To be clear, I'm not talking about injury risks in general, which I would agree are fairly well known and understood - I'm talking about the much more recent knowledge and understanding of the risks of impact of long-term brain health/damage, which I would argue aren't particularly well known and understood but the public in general and parents specifically.

Since this is an "injury" that is not immediate in its impact, like a broken bone, sprain, torn ligament, and also only now beginning to be understood, I think most people don't understand it and thus aren't able to really judge the risk.

In looking at the numbers available, which I summarized above, they found brain damage in over 90% of college players and over 20% of high school players. I don't think you can say it's an emotional based argument - over 20% of the brains of those you play just at the high school level had evidence of long term brain damage due to this participation.

It's my supposition that most parents don't really understand this and therefor aren't making a fully informed evaluation of the risk to their sons.

And since this is a direct threat to the business of the NFL, they will(and have) do anything to obscure and downplay the risk.

And true to form, in their handling of care and compensation of former players suffering from long-term brain damage from their time in the NFL there have been disparities along racial lines in the treatment that they receive.

[Anonymous]

I agree completely, OP. And we never allowed our kids (Black, FWIW) to play.

[Anonymous]

I really don't care about sportsball. I'm there for the food and the half time show and to hang out with my friends. It's the 1 football game a year my family watches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The whole enterprise leverages historical racist plantation construct and is, in and of itself, systemically racist, exploitative, and most of all, detrimental to the long term health and brain health to mostly minorities who play.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/league-of-denial/

Eff the NFL

Whereas blacks comprise roughly 13% of the population in the USA overall, they make up 70% of the NFL.

If we look at the makeup of positions, Center and QB are really the only positions that are more "white" as a percentage.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/

There are now about one third of the teams with starting QBs who are black(up from 5 in 2017) but this still then begs the question of the imbalance of ownership, leadership and management vis-a-vis the player makeup.

So, even given the health repercussions of the game, one could possibly make an argument in its favor if the ownership, leadership and management looked even just a hint of what the player makeup looks like, since there is real danger and detriment to long-term health and brain health/function for those who step on the field. But it doesn't . Not even close:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-racial-divide-one-chart-154059660.html

There is another aspect to this that I won't get into in detail but that is Government "promotion" of this morally corrupt enterprise through favorable tax code, tax incentives and other regulation and zoning.

Another related discussion/debate would be the big business of College Football and its exploitation of minorities vs. the risks of health and brain health as discussed above and how they(and indirectly state governments via tax dollars) subsidize the NFL.

I don't have a solution to propose. Personally, I think that the NFL/Football as it currently exists is dying. It's decline or evolution may be decades in the making but it will need to change drastically or become extinct. I think this is something that people should be aware of but I find in discussing it, most people really haven't given this much thought.

What say you, DCUM?




zyxt

Offensive lineman are typically white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The whole enterprise leverages historical racist plantation construct and is, in and of itself, systemically racist, exploitative, and most of all, detrimental to the long term health and brain health to mostly minorities who play.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/league-of-denial/

Eff the NFL

Whereas blacks comprise roughly 13% of the population in the USA overall, they make up 70% of the NFL.

If we look at the makeup of positions, Center and QB are really the only positions that are more "white" as a percentage.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/

There are now about one third of the teams with starting QBs who are black(up from 5 in 2017) but this still then begs the question of the imbalance of ownership, leadership and management vis-a-vis the player makeup.

So, even given the health repercussions of the game, one could possibly make an argument in its favor if the ownership, leadership and management looked even just a hint of what the player makeup looks like, since there is real danger and detriment to long-term health and brain health/function for those who step on the field. But it doesn't . Not even close:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-racial-divide-one-chart-154059660.html

There is another aspect to this that I won't get into in detail but that is Government "promotion" of this morally corrupt enterprise through favorable tax code, tax incentives and other regulation and zoning.

Another related discussion/debate would be the big business of College Football and its exploitation of minorities vs. the risks of health and brain health as discussed above and how they(and indirectly state governments via tax dollars) subsidize the NFL.

I don't have a solution to propose. Personally, I think that the NFL/Football as it currently exists is dying. It's decline or evolution may be decades in the making but it will need to change drastically or become extinct. I think this is something that people should be aware of but I find in discussing it, most people really haven't given this much thought.

What say you, DCUM?




zyxt

Offensive lineman are typically white.

That's a dated perception and more recent stats simply don't support that.

The only lineman position that you could still say is "typically white" is Center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The whole enterprise leverages historical racist plantation construct and is, in and of itself, systemically racist, exploitative, and most of all, detrimental to the long term health and brain health to mostly minorities who play.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/league-of-denial/

Eff the NFL

Whereas blacks comprise roughly 13% of the population in the USA overall, they make up 70% of the NFL.

If we look at the makeup of positions, Center and QB are really the only positions that are more "white" as a percentage.

https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/

There are now about one third of the teams with starting QBs who are black(up from 5 in 2017) but this still then begs the question of the imbalance of ownership, leadership and management vis-a-vis the player makeup.

So, even given the health repercussions of the game, one could possibly make an argument in its favor if the ownership, leadership and management looked even just a hint of what the player makeup looks like, since there is real danger and detriment to long-term health and brain health/function for those who step on the field. But it doesn't . Not even close:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-racial-divide-one-chart-154059660.html

There is another aspect to this that I won't get into in detail but that is Government "promotion" of this morally corrupt enterprise through favorable tax code, tax incentives and other regulation and zoning.

Another related discussion/debate would be the big business of College Football and its exploitation of minorities vs. the risks of health and brain health as discussed above and how they(and indirectly state governments via tax dollars) subsidize the NFL.

I don't have a solution to propose. Personally, I think that the NFL/Football as it currently exists is dying. It's decline or evolution may be decades in the making but it will need to change drastically or become extinct. I think this is something that people should be aware of but I find in discussing it, most people really haven't given this much thought.

What say you, DCUM?




zyxt

This is funny. There was a danger zone for the NFL where things could have gone south for them. But that passed during the pandemic. Bigger now than ever. It does not look like thre are dark clouds at all. Could that change --- sure but it is really not likely. There is plantation construct. That is crap. People choose to play or not. They know the risks. It could be at one time some did not but all know them now. No one has to play at college or the NFL. Ownership? If you own it you own it -- can't fix that. It will ocst you $3 billion to buy. Anyone who has it can buy.

It is a great sport to watch and to play. NFL is a show. It is big money all over. You are free to not like it but it is not dying now or for a while.