Diversity of schools - can this work both ways? Am I being unreasonable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here are better questions: are you overlooking/opting out of your closest neighborhood school or otherwise making school choices for reasons that when you really take a hard look at them are fundamentally demographic in nature?
what is the threshold that personally makes you uncomfortable and are there options that make sense for you and your child (e.g., geographic proximity etc.) where you can get maybe a little bit more uncomfortable?
the nice white parents podcast etc. basically found on average white parents are uncomfortable with middle schools that are less than 26% white. it is not entirely lost on me that maps entirely to deal, hardy, latin, basis (the same set of middle schools that a lot of dc urban moms posters repeatedly claim are the "acceptable" ones that they would be willing to consider).

OP here.

The answer to the first is potentially yes (this is all in the future, decisions haven’t been made yet). Or at least, that’s the scenario I’m anticipating.

The second - certainly we’re reviewing all options. I’m just trying to be honest - it’d be so easy to come up with some excuse as to why Dunbar, for example, isn’t in the mix. But truly, honestly, I think it’s demographics.

Your point about all the “acceptable” options on DCUM is well taken. And I bet most/many UMC white parents would have other reasons why those schools are “better” but I think we all know that many of them would be singing a different tune if race wasn’t a factor at all. It’s not some giant coincidence. And I’m trying my best to be aware of that and honest about it and how that shows up in my own feelings and my own life. I mean, we’re past the whole “I don’t see color” crap from the 90s right? That’s not the path for an ally either. Honesty feels like a start.

In answer to your question - certainly 10% and I wouldn’t balk. 5%? I’m not sure. 15 kids out of 300? That’s probably around the line for me. There are other demographic factors too. A few people have mentioned class - it’s an interesting spin off. Would you send your kid to 99% economically disadvantaged school. Also 5% white is going to feel different, I would think, if the other 95% is super homogeneous, that might be harder to swallow than if there were lots of different races and ethnicities represented.

I also have seen I think 2-3 people simply call out that this is racist or I want to be an ally but I’m actually not. I appreciate your candor. I know I can do better and I should do better. Maybe I’m not a true ally because I’m even asking this. But I can say at least that I’m trying.

OP, you are using a lot of hypotheticals. I find it's very hard to even have an honest conversation with *yourself* when using hypotheticals. what is the actual decision that you are trying to make?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

I actually live on the Hill and what happens WAY more frequently is that a family chooses the MS feed (SH, I don't know any E-H families) to keep their kid with their cohort, and then all or most of that cohort bails for charters or private either before MS or after the first year. I've seen this happen three times. It is terrible for the kids, who go from being excited about MS to feeling lonely and isolated, and the parents feel like they missed their shot to get them a positive MS experience.

Families are put in an impossible situation because you get one shot for Basis and Latin in 5th grade and then it's over, and you don't know who is going to take that shot, and who will win it, until it's over. So you can't just assume that your kid's friends are all going to be headed to SH for 6th grade. If they lottery for Basis/Latin and get in, they'll probably go. So you're going to lose part of the cohort in 5th. Then there will be families who didn't get spots and decide that's enough for them to decide to do private or move. And then you have families who will try SH and give up quick.

And you don't know who this will happen to until it's over. One day someone will just say "Oh we were offered a waitlist spot at Latin II and we decided to take it" and now your kid's best friend doesn't go to school with her anymore. And it will happen 5-10 times between 4th and 6th grade.

It's a prisoners dilemma. So yeah, a lot of us decide we're not going to sit around and watch it happen, and seek other MS/HS options in advance. I don't want to be making MS choices in the middle of MS in response to what other families have already done. You have to be proactive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

Let me guess--your kids are in early elementary? Please revisit your sentiment in 4 or 5th grade and then tell us how you are feeling. DS used to attend a charter school. Almost half his grade left between 4th and 5th grade. Was DS happy? Sure, because hardly anything was being demanded of him in terms of academics. He is now at another charter with a HS path. Is he happy? No, not really, but that's because for the first time in his school career, he's being held to reasonable standards and expectations. His short term happiness is not my priority right now--it's the long game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

I actually live on the Hill and what happens WAY more frequently is that a family chooses the MS feed (SH, I don't know any E-H families) to keep their kid with their cohort, and then all or most of that cohort bails for charters or private either before MS or after the first year. I've seen this happen three times. It is terrible for the kids, who go from being excited about MS to feeling lonely and isolated, and the parents feel like they missed their shot to get them a positive MS experience.

Families are put in an impossible situation because you get one shot for Basis and Latin in 5th grade and then it's over, and you don't know who is going to take that shot, and who will win it, until it's over. So you can't just assume that your kid's friends are all going to be headed to SH for 6th grade. If they lottery for Basis/Latin and get in, they'll probably go. So you're going to lose part of the cohort in 5th. Then there will be families who didn't get spots and decide that's enough for them to decide to do private or move. And then you have families who will try SH and give up quick.

And you don't know who this will happen to until it's over. One day someone will just say "Oh we were offered a waitlist spot at Latin II and we decided to take it" and now your kid's best friend doesn't go to school with her anymore. And it will happen 5-10 times between 4th and 6th grade.

It's a prisoners dilemma. So yeah, a lot of us decide we're not going to sit around and watch it happen, and seek other MS/HS options in advance. I don't want to be making MS choices in the middle of MS in response to what other families have already done. You have to be proactive.

This exactly. Thank you for explaining so cogently

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

Let me guess--your kids are in early elementary? Please revisit your sentiment in 4 or 5th grade and then tell us how you are feeling. DS used to attend a charter school. Almost half his grade left between 4th and 5th grade. Was DS happy? Sure, because hardly anything was being demanded of him in terms of academics. He is now at another charter with a HS path. Is he happy? No, not really, but that's because for the first time in his school career, he's being held to reasonable standards and expectations. His short term happiness is not my priority right now--it's the long game.

Spot on!!! Our kid loved their ES...and learned jack-all. They are now in a new school where they are getting their a** kicked. I love it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

I actually live on the Hill and what happens WAY more frequently is that a family chooses the MS feed (SH, I don't know any E-H families) to keep their kid with their cohort, and then all or most of that cohort bails for charters or private either before MS or after the first year. I've seen this happen three times. It is terrible for the kids, who go from being excited about MS to feeling lonely and isolated, and the parents feel like they missed their shot to get them a positive MS experience.

Families are put in an impossible situation because you get one shot for Basis and Latin in 5th grade and then it's over, and you don't know who is going to take that shot, and who will win it, until it's over. So you can't just assume that your kid's friends are all going to be headed to SH for 6th grade. If they lottery for Basis/Latin and get in, they'll probably go. So you're going to lose part of the cohort in 5th. Then there will be families who didn't get spots and decide that's enough for them to decide to do private or move. And then you have families who will try SH and give up quick.

And you don't know who this will happen to until it's over. One day someone will just say "Oh we were offered a waitlist spot at Latin II and we decided to take it" and now your kid's best friend doesn't go to school with her anymore. And it will happen 5-10 times between 4th and 6th grade.

It's a prisoners dilemma. So yeah, a lot of us decide we're not going to sit around and watch it happen, and seek other MS/HS options in advance. I don't want to be making MS choices in the middle of MS in response to what other families have already done. You have to be proactive.

On board with everything you said except that it is a prisoner's dilemma. In order for it to be so the outcomes have to be equal, save for the choices of others. In this case SH does not measure up to Latin/BASIS/private except for perhaps known cohort. People who left for Latin didn't do so because the quality of SH was the same but for the concern about others leaving. They chose Latin because it is an objectively better environment with an objectively better HS path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

I actually live on the Hill and what happens WAY more frequently is that a family chooses the MS feed (SH, I don't know any E-H families) to keep their kid with their cohort, and then all or most of that cohort bails for charters or private either before MS or after the first year. I've seen this happen three times. It is terrible for the kids, who go from being excited about MS to feeling lonely and isolated, and the parents feel like they missed their shot to get them a positive MS experience.

Families are put in an impossible situation because you get one shot for Basis and Latin in 5th grade and then it's over, and you don't know who is going to take that shot, and who will win it, until it's over. So you can't just assume that your kid's friends are all going to be headed to SH for 6th grade. If they lottery for Basis/Latin and get in, they'll probably go. So you're going to lose part of the cohort in 5th. Then there will be families who didn't get spots and decide that's enough for them to decide to do private or move. And then you have families who will try SH and give up quick.

And you don't know who this will happen to until it's over. One day someone will just say "Oh we were offered a waitlist spot at Latin II and we decided to take it" and now your kid's best friend doesn't go to school with her anymore. And it will happen 5-10 times between 4th and 6th grade.

It's a prisoners dilemma. So yeah, a lot of us decide we're not going to sit around and watch it happen, and seek other MS/HS options in advance. I don't want to be making MS choices in the middle of MS in response to what other families have already done. You have to be proactive.

This exactly. Thank you for explaining so cogently

This is why we're moving soon. We have two kids. Maybe my older child will do ok with the IB school, but what if my 2nd child doesn't? What if my older child gets to lottery into a school that really works for them, but my 2nd child doesn't because they're far enough apart in age that sibling preference doesn't help after elementary school? So we'll move somewhere where both kids have the best shot of doing well with minimal needing to move schools again in the midst of middle school or highschool.

[Anonymous]

No, I would not. Why are you contemplating it? Are the academics fantastic? Is it a great environment? What else do you know about this school other than the demographics?

School is where your child will spend the vast majority of his/her waking hours. Let them be happy at school. Don't make every aspect of their school existence a lesson of some sort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

I actually live on the Hill and what happens WAY more frequently is that a family chooses the MS feed (SH, I don't know any E-H families) to keep their kid with their cohort, and then all or most of that cohort bails for charters or private either before MS or after the first year. I've seen this happen three times. It is terrible for the kids, who go from being excited about MS to feeling lonely and isolated, and the parents feel like they missed their shot to get them a positive MS experience.

Families are put in an impossible situation because you get one shot for Basis and Latin in 5th grade and then it's over, and you don't know who is going to take that shot, and who will win it, until it's over. So you can't just assume that your kid's friends are all going to be headed to SH for 6th grade. If they lottery for Basis/Latin and get in, they'll probably go. So you're going to lose part of the cohort in 5th. Then there will be families who didn't get spots and decide that's enough for them to decide to do private or move. And then you have families who will try SH and give up quick.

And you don't know who this will happen to until it's over. One day someone will just say "Oh we were offered a waitlist spot at Latin II and we decided to take it" and now your kid's best friend doesn't go to school with her anymore. And it will happen 5-10 times between 4th and 6th grade.

It's a prisoners dilemma. So yeah, a lot of us decide we're not going to sit around and watch it happen, and seek other MS/HS options in advance. I don't want to be making MS choices in the middle of MS in response to what other families have already done. You have to be proactive.

This exactly. Thank you for explaining so cogently

This is why we're moving soon. We have two kids. Maybe my older child will do ok with the IB school, but what if my 2nd child doesn't? What if my older child gets to lottery into a school that really works for them, but my 2nd child doesn't because they're far enough apart in age that sibling preference doesn't help after elementary school? So we'll move somewhere where both kids have the best shot of doing well with minimal needing to move schools again in the midst of middle school or highschool.

Before you jump to the 'burbs, do spend some time investigating those schools with the same critical eye you do DC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

I actually live on the Hill and what happens WAY more frequently is that a family chooses the MS feed (SH, I don't know any E-H families) to keep their kid with their cohort, and then all or most of that cohort bails for charters or private either before MS or after the first year. I've seen this happen three times. It is terrible for the kids, who go from being excited about MS to feeling lonely and isolated, and the parents feel like they missed their shot to get them a positive MS experience.

Families are put in an impossible situation because you get one shot for Basis and Latin in 5th grade and then it's over, and you don't know who is going to take that shot, and who will win it, until it's over. So you can't just assume that your kid's friends are all going to be headed to SH for 6th grade. If they lottery for Basis/Latin and get in, they'll probably go. So you're going to lose part of the cohort in 5th. Then there will be families who didn't get spots and decide that's enough for them to decide to do private or move. And then you have families who will try SH and give up quick.

And you don't know who this will happen to until it's over. One day someone will just say "Oh we were offered a waitlist spot at Latin II and we decided to take it" and now your kid's best friend doesn't go to school with her anymore. And it will happen 5-10 times between 4th and 6th grade.

It's a prisoners dilemma. So yeah, a lot of us decide we're not going to sit around and watch it happen, and seek other MS/HS options in advance. I don't want to be making MS choices in the middle of MS in response to what other families have already done. You have to be proactive.

This exactly. Thank you for explaining so cogently

This is why we're moving soon. We have two kids. Maybe my older child will do ok with the IB school, but what if my 2nd child doesn't? What if my older child gets to lottery into a school that really works for them, but my 2nd child doesn't because they're far enough apart in age that sibling preference doesn't help after elementary school? So we'll move somewhere where both kids have the best shot of doing well with minimal needing to move schools again in the midst of middle school or highschool.

Before you jump to the 'burbs, do spend some time investigating those schools with the same critical eye you do DC schools.

I am. There is nowhere that is ideal. It's a really, really difficult decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not. Why are you contemplating it? Are the academics fantastic? Is it a great environment? What else do you know about this school other than the demographics?

School is where your child will spend the vast majority of his/her waking hours. Let them be happy at school. Don't make every aspect of their school existence a lesson of some sort.

I truly believe there are about 5% of DCUM parents who really prioritize sending their kid to a very diverse school. The rest of us care about diversity but care about academics and environment more. Diversity is a nice to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i think its okay to not choose say eastern for your child for high school. but a problem i see is people pulling happy kids out in upper elementary school and skipping out on the middle school feeder (which their child wants to attend w established friends) because they are concerned about high school. that always strikes me as a little bit like the woman who leans out professionally at a stage before she even has kids or something.

I actually live on the Hill and what happens WAY more frequently is that a family chooses the MS feed (SH, I don't know any E-H families) to keep their kid with their cohort, and then all or most of that cohort bails for charters or private either before MS or after the first year. I've seen this happen three times. It is terrible for the kids, who go from being excited about MS to feeling lonely and isolated, and the parents feel like they missed their shot to get them a positive MS experience.

Families are put in an impossible situation because you get one shot for Basis and Latin in 5th grade and then it's over, and you don't know who is going to take that shot, and who will win it, until it's over. So you can't just assume that your kid's friends are all going to be headed to SH for 6th grade. If they lottery for Basis/Latin and get in, they'll probably go. So you're going to lose part of the cohort in 5th. Then there will be families who didn't get spots and decide that's enough for them to decide to do private or move. And then you have families who will try SH and give up quick.

And you don't know who this will happen to until it's over. One day someone will just say "Oh we were offered a waitlist spot at Latin II and we decided to take it" and now your kid's best friend doesn't go to school with her anymore. And it will happen 5-10 times between 4th and 6th grade.

It's a prisoners dilemma. So yeah, a lot of us decide we're not going to sit around and watch it happen, and seek other MS/HS options in advance. I don't want to be making MS choices in the middle of MS in response to what other families have already done. You have to be proactive.

This exactly. Thank you for explaining so cogently

This is why we're moving soon. We have two kids. Maybe my older child will do ok with the IB school, but what if my 2nd child doesn't? What if my older child gets to lottery into a school that really works for them, but my 2nd child doesn't because they're far enough apart in age that sibling preference doesn't help after elementary school? So we'll move somewhere where both kids have the best shot of doing well with minimal needing to move schools again in the midst of middle school or highschool.

Before you jump to the 'burbs, do spend some time investigating those schools with the same critical eye you do DC schools.

I am. There is nowhere that is ideal. It's a really, really difficult decision.

It is. The trouble and the blessing of DC is school choice. Lots of options, but with that comes plenty of stress and fomo. The trouble with the burbs is that there are no options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not. Why are you contemplating it? Are the academics fantastic? Is it a great environment? What else do you know about this school other than the demographics?

School is where your child will spend the vast majority of his/her waking hours. Let them be happy at school. Don't make every aspect of their school existence a lesson of some sort.

I truly believe there are about 5% of DCUM parents who really prioritize sending their kid to a very diverse school. The rest of us care about diversity but care about academics and environment more. Diversity is a nice to have.

Diversity is not a top priority for me. My two major concerns are caliber of academics and safety of environment. There are other minor concerns but I've never thought to check the demographics. It is unimportant to me.
This area is so diverse anyway that by virtue of living in DC metro kids will get enough "diversity" anyway. I don't think it has to ben an intentional act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not. Why are you contemplating it? Are the academics fantastic? Is it a great environment? What else do you know about this school other than the demographics?

School is where your child will spend the vast majority of his/her waking hours. Let them be happy at school. Don't make every aspect of their school existence a lesson of some sort.

I truly believe there are about 5% of DCUM parents who really prioritize sending their kid to a very diverse school. The rest of us care about diversity but care about academics and environment more. Diversity is a nice to have.

Diversity is not a top priority for me. My two major concerns are caliber of academics and safety of environment. There are other minor concerns but I've never thought to check the demographics. It is unimportant to me.
This area is so diverse anyway that by virtue of living in DC metro kids will get enough "diversity" anyway. I don't think it has to ben an intentional act.

PP here. Yep, me too. And I think so is the overwhelming majority of parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not. Why are you contemplating it? Are the academics fantastic? Is it a great environment? What else do you know about this school other than the demographics?

School is where your child will spend the vast majority of his/her waking hours. Let them be happy at school. Don't make every aspect of their school existence a lesson of some sort.

I truly believe there are about 5% of DCUM parents who really prioritize sending their kid to a very diverse school. The rest of us care about diversity but care about academics and environment more. Diversity is a nice to have.

This is true for white parents. for POC, diversity actually is a priority, bc we don't want our kids to be the "only" and subject to horrific racism. So we are searching for a school that has it all -- academics and diversity.