If you left a private school because of bullying or exclusion, what was the tipping point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what the reasonable expectation is here, that somehow bullying exists only in public schools and shouldn't in private schools?

I think it’s reasonable to assume that if it’s a private school with many levels of leadership and you are paying $50k a year per kid and their mantra is No bullying, then the school will help out and look into bad behaviors seriously.
And those progressive schools harping about socio-emotional stuff should coach children and parents out of bullying conflicts together. Or have serious talks with repeat offenders.

But what percentage of private schools are actually progressive and emphasize social/emotional well-being? My guess is that most don't.

Our does and has bullying and badmouthing going on galore. Meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Ours does and there isn't bullying and badmouthing going on galore. Meaningful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can she be in a different class next year with different kids? If she is going to be with same kids for the duration I would switch too.

There are no other classes - it’s one class per grade.

OP, just curious, do you have other children at the school? We are in a similar situation with our fourth grade DD at a small school with just one class per grade. DD is really struggling socially and we’re considering public, but we have another child who has lucked out and is in a class with mostly easy going kids and seems to be thriving at the small school. Overall, I’m not thrilled with how the school handles mean kids so am tempted to pull both kids out. Just wondering if you’ve got another kid factoring into your decision.

Hi this is OP - another child is not factoring into the decision. But even if I had two there, I would not mind separating them if that's what worked best. If 4th is rough for your daughter, often it only gets worse as they get older. Also I know plenty of families that have their kids split - some or one in public and the other(s) in private. The problem with small kids is when even one kid leaves or one kid joins, the entire dynamic of the class can shift.

My kid went to a K-8 with one class per grade.

Do you have any sense that the kids who are being mean have any kind of social skills-related disability? I later learned two or three kids got outside support due to anxiety or trouble reading social cues. We looked into this for my kid. The advice my kid (then in 4th) was given to stand up for themselves or set boundaries might help in a workplace, but not in a class with 22 Catholic kids who will be together for 5 years. I pulled my kid out of that program because it was not kind.

Is the kind of bullying "excluding" or ignoring (relational)? Are they not being chosen for team/groups? Is it related to appearance in some way?

Is there a person at school that is there full time to address feelings, or is the "counselor" the priest/principal/just as nice teacher?

In making your decision, can you try to think about switching "up" as in towards a place where there is a program your child likes (coding after school, a good choir, a science lab....) and better social-emotional support on site, so they can upgrade to things that will help them develop in a loving way instead of fleeing. This may require some research.

I think in the end, if you can't find a work around, helping your child learn when to leave an emotionally abusive environment is a good message.

Just also try to make sure you can talk to someone who will give you the full story of the social dynamics of the class. There is usually a queen bee mom who knows what's going on with everyone, and sometimes 2-3 girls are so afraid of being cast out of clique, they alienate the person who could take their spot.

The book Queen Bees and Wanna Be-s is amazing. Mean Girls was based on it.

This is great advice. The class is so small though (think under 12) and is predominantly boys. Therefore, there is no room to move away from these girls. It is excluding and sometimes ignoring but not because my kid has social issues - the kids who are doing the ignoring seem to lack certain social skills but happen to be louder and more aggressive, so rule the nest. And for background - my child attended another, bigger school and had a wide group of friends so it is not a relational/social skills issue. These girls seem to take pride in not being the one excluded so they do whatever they can to make sure the they are not *that* person who is left out. There is no counselor. And oddly, there is no Queen Bee mom (and I know what you mean by this) - the moms are checked out, meaning they aren't monitoring their kids social media use or access to phones, etc. so they are not too invested in being tuned into what is influencing their kids. I just hate watching her want to desperately to belong and it not happening. It crushes me in a way that surprises me because I just feel so bad for her. For some reason she think she should just "tough it out" but I honestly don't think it will get better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ours does and there isn't bullying and badmouthing going on galore. Meaningful.

I think at the end of the day, if a school has a group of 5 girls who are bullying and excluding one kid, the school has to look at the economics of it. Do they potentially lose $35,000 tuition x 5 girls (plus donations) or one kid at just $35,000. In a public school, these considerations are not relevant but in a private school they are.

I also want to point out that if you have a kid that you think is of above average intelligence or excels in a particular area and therefore, think that private is a good fit, sometimes that is not the right option. Some kids are in private because the parents are wealthy and want them in a more controlled and sanitized environment that prevents them from being exposed to the real world. With that sometimes comes an environment which includes children who do not have the best social skills, lack empathy and are used to a home environment where there are no or minimal consequences for negative behavior. I don't know how you root out schools that have this issue but I have found that smaller schools tend to have this this problem more than bigger schools. In many ways, your public might be a better option because of the wide variety of personality types available to choose as friends. Also, with neighborhood schools, parents know each other and it's easier and beneficial to address these issues given everyone is part of the same community.

[Anonymous]

So the class only has 10-11 students, most are boys, and the 4-5 girls are mean to her and exclude her? I would pull her out if the school right now and either send her to public or homeschool her the rest of the year. Everyday you keep her in that environment is harming her self-esteem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can she be in a different class next year with different kids? If she is going to be with same kids for the duration I would switch too.

There are no other classes - it’s one class per grade.

OP, just curious, do you have other children at the school? We are in a similar situation with our fourth grade DD at a small school with just one class per grade. DD is really struggling socially and we’re considering public, but we have another child who has lucked out and is in a class with mostly easy going kids and seems to be thriving at the small school. Overall, I’m not thrilled with how the school handles mean kids so am tempted to pull both kids out. Just wondering if you’ve got another kid factoring into your decision.

Hi this is OP - another child is not factoring into the decision. But even if I had two there, I would not mind separating them if that's what worked best. If 4th is rough for your daughter, often it only gets worse as they get older. Also I know plenty of families that have their kids split - some or one in public and the other(s) in private. The problem with small kids is when even one kid leaves or one kid joins, the entire dynamic of the class can shift.

My kid went to a K-8 with one class per grade.

Do you have any sense that the kids who are being mean have any kind of social skills-related disability? I later learned two or three kids got outside support due to anxiety or trouble reading social cues. We looked into this for my kid. The advice my kid (then in 4th) was given to stand up for themselves or set boundaries might help in a workplace, but not in a class with 22 Catholic kids who will be together for 5 years. I pulled my kid out of that program because it was not kind.

Is the kind of bullying "excluding" or ignoring (relational)? Are they not being chosen for team/groups? Is it related to appearance in some way?

Is there a person at school that is there full time to address feelings, or is the "counselor" the priest/principal/just as nice teacher?

In making your decision, can you try to think about switching "up" as in towards a place where there is a program your child likes (coding after school, a good choir, a science lab....) and better social-emotional support on site, so they can upgrade to things that will help them develop in a loving way instead of fleeing. This may require some research.

I think in the end, if you can't find a work around, helping your child learn when to leave an emotionally abusive environment is a good message.

Just also try to make sure you can talk to someone who will give you the full story of the social dynamics of the class. There is usually a queen bee mom who knows what's going on with everyone, and sometimes 2-3 girls are so afraid of being cast out of clique, they alienate the person who could take their spot.

The book Queen Bees and Wanna Be-s is amazing. Mean Girls was based on it.

This is great advice. The class is so small though (think under 12) and is predominantly boys. Therefore, there is no room to move away from these girls. It is excluding and sometimes ignoring but not because my kid has social issues - the kids who are doing the ignoring seem to lack certain social skills but happen to be louder and more aggressive, so rule the nest. And for background - my child attended another, bigger school and had a wide group of friends so it is not a relational/social skills issue. These girls seem to take pride in not being the one excluded so they do whatever they can to make sure the they are not *that* person who is left out. There is no counselor. And oddly, there is no Queen Bee mom (and I know what you mean by this) - the moms are checked out, meaning they aren't monitoring their kids social media use or access to phones, etc. so they are not too invested in being tuned into what is influencing their kids. I just hate watching her want to desperately to belong and it not happening. It crushes me in a way that surprises me because I just feel so bad for her. For some reason she think she should just "tough it out" but I honestly don't think it will get better.

I am so sorry, and I know how that hurts.

Unless she is open to making boy buddies (and they are as well) it sounds like you have an answer in your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the class only has 10-11 students, most are boys, and the 4-5 girls are mean to her and exclude her? I would pull her out if the school right now and either send her to public or homeschool her the rest of the year. Everyday you keep her in that environment is harming her self-esteem.

Privates larger with 2-4 classrooms per grade suffer same queen bee issue and do nothing about it year after year. Everyone keeps hoping the influx of new students every so often will dilute things but has not. New kids fall into her games and don’t want to be badmouthed so keep them up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the class only has 10-11 students, most are boys, and the 4-5 girls are mean to her and exclude her? I would pull her out if the school right now and either send her to public or homeschool her the rest of the year. Everyday you keep her in that environment is harming her self-esteem.

Privates larger with 2-4 classrooms per grade suffer same queen bee issue and do nothing about it year after year. Everyone keeps hoping the influx of new students every so often will dilute things but has not. New kids fall into her games and don’t want to be badmouthed so keep them up.

The new kids can't change the dynamics because the social structure is already in place when they arrive. As new students, they are even more eager to fit in so will fall in line wherever they can and won't rock the boat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can she be in a different class next year with different kids? If she is going to be with same kids for the duration I would switch too.

There are no other classes - it’s one class per grade.

OP, just curious, do you have other children at the school? We are in a similar situation with our fourth grade DD at a small school with just one class per grade. DD is really struggling socially and we’re considering public, but we have another child who has lucked out and is in a class with mostly easy going kids and seems to be thriving at the small school. Overall, I’m not thrilled with how the school handles mean kids so am tempted to pull both kids out. Just wondering if you’ve got another kid factoring into your decision.

Hi this is OP - another child is not factoring into the decision. But even if I had two there, I would not mind separating them if that's what worked best. If 4th is rough for your daughter, often it only gets worse as they get older. Also I know plenty of families that have their kids split - some or one in public and the other(s) in private. The problem with small kids is when even one kid leaves or one kid joins, the entire dynamic of the class can shift.

My kid went to a K-8 with one class per grade.

Do you have any sense that the kids who are being mean have any kind of social skills-related disability? I later learned two or three kids got outside support due to anxiety or trouble reading social cues. We looked into this for my kid. The advice my kid (then in 4th) was given to stand up for themselves or set boundaries might help in a workplace, but not in a class with 22 Catholic kids who will be together for 5 years. I pulled my kid out of that program because it was not kind.

Is the kind of bullying "excluding" or ignoring (relational)? Are they not being chosen for team/groups? Is it related to appearance in some way?

Is there a person at school that is there full time to address feelings, or is the "counselor" the priest/principal/just as nice teacher?

In making your decision, can you try to think about switching "up" as in towards a place where there is a program your child likes (coding after school, a good choir, a science lab....) and better social-emotional support on site, so they can upgrade to things that will help them develop in a loving way instead of fleeing. This may require some research.

I think in the end, if you can't find a work around, helping your child learn when to leave an emotionally abusive environment is a good message.

Just also try to make sure you can talk to someone who will give you the full story of the social dynamics of the class. There is usually a queen bee mom who knows what's going on with everyone, and sometimes 2-3 girls are so afraid of being cast out of clique, they alienate the person who could take their spot.

The book Queen Bees and Wanna Be-s is amazing. Mean Girls was based on it.

This is great advice. The class is so small though (think under 12) and is predominantly boys. Therefore, there is no room to move away from these girls. It is excluding and sometimes ignoring but not because my kid has social issues - the kids who are doing the ignoring seem to lack certain social skills but happen to be louder and more aggressive, so rule the nest. And for background - my child attended another, bigger school and had a wide group of friends so it is not a relational/social skills issue. These girls seem to take pride in not being the one excluded so they do whatever they can to make sure the they are not *that* person who is left out. There is no counselor. And oddly, there is no Queen Bee mom (and I know what you mean by this) - the moms are checked out, meaning they aren't monitoring their kids social media use or access to phones, etc. so they are not too invested in being tuned into what is influencing their kids. I just hate watching her want to desperately to belong and it not happening. It crushes me in a way that surprises me because I just feel so bad for her. For some reason she think she should just "tough it out" but I honestly don't think it will get better.

I am so sorry, and I know how that hurts.

Unless she is open to making boy buddies (and they are as well) it sounds like you have an answer in your heart.

That's possible but at this age fitting in with girls is really important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what the reasonable expectation is here, that somehow bullying exists only in public schools and shouldn't in private schools?

I think it’s reasonable to assume that if it’s a private school with many levels of leadership and you are paying $50k a year per kid and their mantra is No bullying, then the school will help out and look into bad behaviors seriously.
And those progressive schools harping about socio-emotional stuff should coach children and parents out of bullying conflicts together. Or have serious talks with repeat offenders.

But what percentage of private schools are actually progressive and emphasize social/emotional well-being? My guess is that most don't.

My child suffered terribly in a private, sweet progressive school. Had nothing to do with the school and its purported ethos and everything to do with the kids in the class. Sometimes at these small schools there’s a class with toxic chemistry and the only thing to do is leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can she be in a different class next year with different kids? If she is going to be with same kids for the duration I would switch too.

There are no other classes - it’s one class per grade.

OP, is this a school within the Diocese of Arlington? We are moving to a parochial school, also one class per grade. Not the main reason for pulling her out of public school, but DD contends with being ignored, called names and even some physical bullying at school, which we have addressed over the last couple of months. She now has high expectations of going to her new school, but if your child's school is also in the Diocese of Arlington (and there are very few schools with one class per grade in that area), it'd very likely be the same school....

[Anonymous]

A couple of toxic kids were driving the social circle at DC's school and given the small size of the school, it didn't leave much option for making friends for DC.
There was a time when silent bullying reared its ugly head to verbal bullying, and DC stood up to the bully.
Verbal bullying stopped but silent bullying continued. It would likely continue into subsequent grades.

IMO, silent bullying is not something that can easily be fixed. Nor do I expect that my DC should "tough it out".
School, parents, students should all be involved to deal with it. But the moms at our school were just as clique-y, so I was not very hopeful about the situation.
We pulled DC out.


What is the school counselor doing to address the situation? And the parents of the students?
They might help you decide what to do.

[Anonymous]

Get her out of that school, no matter what! Life's too short.

[Anonymous]

At 10 years old I would talk to the parents of the mean kids. To the school if this doesn't work. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

This happens at every middle school, they’re adolescent kids who are changing and growing. What matters is how proactive you are, communicating with school and how staff deals with it