If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

historical figures are not needed to form a religion -- e.g., american indian religions and european paganism. People just dream up this stuff and sometimes a name gets attached to it and sometimes it doesn't.

Also, you don't have to be crazy -- just in search of meaning.

It's immaterial whether Jesus existed or not. Christianity certainly exists and has been a force in the world for centuries.

If it were proven that there was no Jesus, no crucifixion and no resurrection, Christianity would still probably survive.

It might not thrive, but it's already dying even with a lot of people still believing in it -- just not as many as before.

Since people are no longer burned at the stake for not believing, it's easer to come out as an atheist.

Focus, people.

OP is specifically addressing the origins of Christianity, because this is something that atheists have kept coming back to over the past few days. Not whether atheists feel comfortable coming out.

I think OP’s point is that so many independent but similar testimonies emerged that it suggests an actual person. You’d need Big European Religion to coordinate a similar rollout in the absence of a real person who did real things. Which obviously seems really improbable. Props, though, for going bravely down the path of silly conspiracy theories.

I doubt that dedicated Christians spend too much time wondering or worrying about if Jesus was a real person. It's the teachings of love and acceptance and charity that they care about and would likely continue to practice even if there were proof that Jesus was not real.

I hear this quite often, but what about the other stuff? Like the virgin birth, bodily resurrection, and salvation being possible ONLY by believing in Jesus ? You believe that stuff? Or just the "teaching of love and acceptance and charity?" (i.e., the good things, I acknowledge).

This discussion is about OP's premise that Jesus did not exist historically.

Fair enough. I am willing to accept he did. But was responding to the pp that said "It's the teachings of love and acceptance and charity that they care about and would likely continue to practice even if there were proof that Jesus was not real." Is that o.k. with you?

[Anonymous]

So who did the Romans crucify then?

[Anonymous]

I'm not convinced so many men and women would willingly be martyred to preach the gospel. Crucified, beheaded, burned, boiled. Why would so many do it for a lie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So who did the Romans crucify then?

Did the Romans keep written records?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not convinced so many men and women would willingly be martyred to preach the gospel. Crucified, beheaded, burned, boiled. Why would so many do it for a lie?

Why would do many people people die in the name of Trump?

People are fundamentally stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So who did the Romans crucify then?

Sh1t ton of people.

And?

[Anonymous]

There was a person named Jesus, no doubt. Most of the religion, however, was created by Paul. He never actually met Jesus. Unless you consider that rather bizarre incident on the road to Damascus. Color me skeptical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was *most likely* a person named Jesus, no doubt. Most of the religion, however, was created by Paul. He never actually met Jesus. Unless you consider that rather bizarre incident on the road to Damascus. Color me skeptical.

FIFY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So who did the Romans crucify then?

Thousands of people. You think they only crucified one guy?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was *most likely* a person named Jesus, no doubt. Most of the religion, however, was created by Paul. He never actually met Jesus. Unless you consider that rather bizarre incident on the road to Damascus. Color me skeptical.

FIFY

o.k., I'm willing to assume there was. But only because of circumstantial evidence, which in some arenas is not considered good enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not convinced so many men and women would willingly be martyred to preach the gospel. Crucified, beheaded, burned, boiled. Why would so many do it for a lie?

Why would do many people people die in the name of Trump?

People are fundamentally stupid.

Nope, sorry. No one is being boiled in oil for Trump. At the threat of such torment, they'd turn on him in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not convinced so many men and women would willingly be martyred to preach the gospel. Crucified, beheaded, burned, boiled. Why would so many do it for a lie?

Why would do many people people die in the name of Trump?

People are fundamentally stupid.

Nope, sorry. No one is being boiled in oil for Trump. At the threat of such torment, they'd turn on him in a heartbeat.

Many people have been willing to die in the name of Trump.

https://amp.beaconjournal.com/amp/6446852001
https://www.bbc.com/news/52012242
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1253285

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Certainly Paul was be-bopping all over Ancient Rome writing letters and starting churches within 50 years of his death. And his writings and behavior are much too organized to believe he was schizophrenic. So, where did this theology come from? Was there some group of crazy people who made it all up, including a central figure who never existed?

historical figures are not needed to form a religion -- e.g., american indian religions and european paganism. People just dream up this stuff and sometimes a name gets attached to it and sometimes it doesn't.

Also, you don't have to be crazy -- just in search of meaning.

It's immaterial whether Jesus existed or not. Christianity certainly exists and has been a force in the world for centuries.

If it were proven that there was no Jesus, no crucifixion and no resurrection, Christianity would still probably survive.

It might not thrive, but it's already dying even with a lot of people still believing in it -- just not as many as before.

Since people are no longer burned at the stake for not believing, it's easer to come out as an atheist.

Focus, people.

OP is specifically addressing the origins of Christianity, because this is something that atheists have kept coming back to over the past few days. Not whether atheists feel comfortable coming out.

I think OP’s point is that so many independent but similar testimonies emerged that it suggests an actual person. You’d need Big European Religion to coordinate a similar rollout in the absence of a real person who did real things. Which obviously seems really improbable. Props, though, for going bravely down the path of silly conspiracy theories.

I doubt that dedicated Christians spend too much time wondering or worrying about if Jesus was a real person. It's the teachings of love and acceptance and charity that they care about and would likely continue to practice even if there were proof that Jesus was not real.

I hear this quite often, but what about the other stuff? Like the virgin birth, bodily resurrection, and salvation being possible ONLY by believing in Jesus ? You believe that stuff? Or just the "teaching of love and acceptance and charity?" (i.e., the good things, I acknowledge).

Some people stop believing when they learn stuff about Christian history that was never touched upon in Sunday school or church. Others don't care - it's the big picture, and their family tradition that keeps them going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not convinced so many men and women would willingly be martyred to preach the gospel. Crucified, beheaded, burned, boiled. Why would so many do it for a lie?

They didn't think of it as a lie, but as a deeply held belief. And they also believe, that their martyrdom will result in eternal life. remember the 9-11 hijackers? They thought they were getting 21 virgins in heaven!

Also, consider that these days, no one is being beheaded, etc, for being Christian -- at least in most of the world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was *most likely* a person named Jesus, no doubt. Most of the religion, however, was created by Paul. He never actually met Jesus. Unless you consider that rather bizarre incident on the road to Damascus. Color me skeptical.

FIFY

o.k., I'm willing to assume there was. But only because of circumstantial evidence, which in some arenas is not considered good enough.

There were lots of people named Jesus back then. Still are.