Lia Thomas - Will this change college sports for women or a nothingburger?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10282301/Transgender-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-smashes-records-weekend-meets-14-SECONDS-ahead-rival.html

Twitter is going crazy about Lia Thomas’ record-setting performance last weekend. Do you think she is a unicorn and we should all just calm down or is it likely that women who were born male fundamentally change college sports and scholarships?

Not fundamentally because stories like this are exceedingly rare. But for the athletes in these particular swimming events, this is a difficult situation.

Exceedingly rare now, but wait 5-10 years. That is OP's whole point.

A "difficult situation?" That's the best you can do?

what do you want? My kid is not the strongest athlete in her sport. She competes hard. there was one transgender kid on the team who was not talented at all regardless of gender...which is typical. most people are not gifted athletes.

I don't think this is a common situation at all. That swimmer was transgender AND a good athlete. That is a rare combination.

The transgender males could have a physical disadvantage in sports competitions when trying to compete against male athletes. That is what it is.

I dont understand what you want? where are these people supposed to compete?

Birth sex only. Obviously

Sports were separated by biological birth sex, not gender, because of biological/physical differences (on average). Now we are permitting anyone of any gender to compete as the birth sex they choose regardless of their actual birth sex. The "transgender sports issue" is one of the most prominent examples of the trans rights movement moving from "gender identity is separate from biological sex" to "if you identify as a woman, you are a biological woman." I'm not sure how long it will take, but it seems obvious that if this course continues, eventually transwomen will hold the records in every single woman's sport.

Well not this one. Lisa did not beat the Olympic or world record. And that will only happen if some transgender athlete comes along that is good enough which is statistically unlikely. Did not a transgender weight lifter at the olympics fail to win anything?

She did not medal. A Canadian transgender athlete on the woman's soccer team got a medal. That is a little confusing. Should not he compete on the men's team?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don't see how it fundamentally changes college sports. This is the only transgender college athlete I have ever heard of. Ever.

You don’t get out much, do you?

Just list all the others and educated us about how transformational this apparently is. Are there hundreds out there? Who are they?

NP and you’re missing op’s point. The question is not about the current situation. The question is about where this leads in the future

Transgender people are not new.

Men competing as women and breaking long held records in their sports is absolutely new.

Did you watch any of the East Germans in the Olympics?

They weren’t men pretending to be women, just to rack up wins.

They were women on very large doses of testosterone and steroids. Their stories post Olympics are sad. After the doping stopped their bodies were messed up permanently. I believe there were a lot of suicides much later.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10282301/Transgender-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-smashes-records-weekend-meets-14-SECONDS-ahead-rival.html

Twitter is going crazy about Lia Thomas’ record-setting performance last weekend. Do you think she is a unicorn and we should all just calm down or is it likely that women who were born male fundamentally change college sports and scholarships?

Not fundamentally because stories like this are exceedingly rare. But for the athletes in these particular swimming events, this is a difficult situation.

Exceedingly rare now, but wait 5-10 years. That is OP's whole point.

A "difficult situation?" That's the best you can do?

what do you want? My kid is not the strongest athlete in her sport. She competes hard. there was one transgender kid on the team who was not talented at all regardless of gender...which is typical. most people are not gifted athletes.

I don't think this is a common situation at all. That swimmer was transgender AND a good athlete. That is a rare combination.

The transgender males could have a physical disadvantage in sports competitions when trying to compete against male athletes. That is what it is.

I dont understand what you want? where are these people supposed to compete?

Birth sex only. Obviously

Sports were separated by biological birth sex, not gender, because of biological/physical differences (on average). Now we are permitting anyone of any gender to compete as the birth sex they choose regardless of their actual birth sex. The "transgender sports issue" is one of the most prominent examples of the trans rights movement moving from "gender identity is separate from biological sex" to "if you identify as a woman, you are a biological woman." I'm not sure how long it will take, but it seems obvious that if this course continues, eventually transwomen will hold the records in every single woman's sport.

Well not this one. Lisa did not beat the Olympic or world record. And that will only happen if some transgender athlete comes along that is good enough which is statistically unlikely. Did not a transgender weight lifter at the olympics fail to win anything?

She did not medal. A Canadian transgender athlete on the woman's soccer team got a medal. That is a little confusing. Should not he compete on the men's team?

One would think but the men's team may not align with the appropriate pronoun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10282301/Transgender-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-smashes-records-weekend-meets-14-SECONDS-ahead-rival.html

Twitter is going crazy about Lia Thomas’ record-setting performance last weekend. Do you think she is a unicorn and we should all just calm down or is it likely that women who were born male fundamentally change college sports and scholarships?

Not fundamentally because stories like this are exceedingly rare. But for the athletes in these particular swimming events, this is a difficult situation.

Exceedingly rare now, but wait 5-10 years. That is OP's whole point.

A "difficult situation?" That's the best you can do?

what do you want? My kid is not the strongest athlete in her sport. She competes hard. there was one transgender kid on the team who was not talented at all regardless of gender...which is typical. most people are not gifted athletes.

I don't think this is a common situation at all. That swimmer was transgender AND a good athlete. That is a rare combination.

The transgender males could have a physical disadvantage in sports competitions when trying to compete against male athletes. That is what it is.

I dont understand what you want? where are these people supposed to compete?

I find this very difficult. I don't know - maybe there are just some things that they don't get to do.

I don't think (many?) people will "fake it" to be more competitive (though past history with some countries tells me that might just be exactly what some do. So maybe, at the most elite levels, it's just one of those things that you simply don't get to do. Oh well. Life goes on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So - why is this a record?

Not an expert - but the 1650 is a giraffe event. Basically you have to swim it in a 25 yard pool. Pretty much every competitive pool today is 50m. So - you have to dig around a bit.

But - this new “record” was 15.59 and change. Perhaps not a surprise - the record is 15.03 and change held by Ledecky from her college days. Yes - oh boy - a new pool record. Better write home about that.

The 1650 is competed at I think all NCAA meets (but maybe just invitationals). The winner at NCAA champs last March was 15:41.86 after an entire season of competing and the taper and preparation of a big meet. That champion the previous November swam 16:01.93.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So - why is this a record?

Not an expert - but the 1650 is a giraffe event. Basically you have to swim it in a 25 yard pool. Pretty much every competitive pool today is 50m. So - you have to dig around a bit.

But - this new “record” was 15.59 and change. Perhaps not a surprise - the record is 15.03 and change held by Ledecky from her college days. Yes - oh boy - a new pool record. Better write home about that.

This isn’t accurate…
Collegiate swimming is always held in 25yd pools (as are HS meets and most club meets held in the September- April season).

Many pools at colleges or other large facilities are able to be set up as a 50m course (Olympic distance) or a 25yd course by moving a “bulkhead”.

The 1650 is a yards race (done in 25yd lengths) and the comparable event in a 50m pool is the 1500. They are both casually referred to as the “mile”.

I believe college meets either race the 1000yd free or 1650yd free, decided upon by a variety of factors meet to meet, so either is swam less often during the college season than some other events that are standard at every meet. So in that way, there are fewer opportunities to break a pool record.

[Anonymous]

Not close to a record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not close to a record.

These are the NCAA women’s swimming records: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/swimming_rb/WomensSwimRecs.pdf

These are the meet results: https://gozips.com/documents/2021/12/3//2021_Zippy_Invite_friday_results.pdf?id=16731

Thompson’s 500 yard free style (4:34:06 ) was exactly 10 seconds slower than Ledckey’s (4:24.06).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not close to a record.

These are the NCAA women’s swimming records: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/swimming_rb/WomensSwimRecs.pdf

These are the meet results: https://gozips.com/documents/2021/12/3//2021_Zippy_Invite_friday_results.pdf?id=16731

Thompson’s 500 yard free style (4:34:06 ) was exactly 10 seconds slower than Ledckey’s (4:24.06).

No records in the other races:

Thomas 200 - 1:41.93
Thomas 100 - 49.02

[Anonymous]

I don’t know a lot about swimming. How likely is she to be able to drop huge amounts of time before the NCAA championships?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not close to a record.

These are the NCAA women’s swimming records: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/swimming_rb/WomensSwimRecs.pdf

These are the meet results: https://gozips.com/documents/2021/12/3//2021_Zippy_Invite_friday_results.pdf?id=16731

Thompson’s 500 yard free style (4:34:06 ) was exactly 10 seconds slower than Ledckey’s (4:24.06).

Ledecky is a man too so void both?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a lot about swimming. How likely is she to be able to drop huge amounts of time before the NCAA championships?

It seems like it’s possible that Lia’s times will actually go down?

This study showed a decrease in muscle volume after hormone therapy.

“ In TW, the corresponding parameters decreased by –5% (muscle volume) and –4% (CSA), while density remained unaltered. The TM increased strength over the assessment period, while the TW generally maintained their strength levels.” (TW stands for transwoman)

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/105/3/e805/5651219?redirectedFrom=fulltext

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10282301/Transgender-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-smashes-records-weekend-meets-14-SECONDS-ahead-rival.html

Twitter is going crazy about Lia Thomas’ record-setting performance last weekend. Do you think she is a unicorn and we should all just calm down or is it likely that women who were born male fundamentally change college sports and scholarships?

Not fundamentally because stories like this are exceedingly rare. But for the athletes in these particular swimming events, this is a difficult situation.

Exceedingly rare now, but wait 5-10 years. That is OP's whole point.

A "difficult situation?" That's the best you can do?

what do you want? My kid is not the strongest athlete in her sport. She competes hard. there was one transgender kid on the team who was not talented at all regardless of gender...which is typical. most people are not gifted athletes.

I don't think this is a common situation at all. That swimmer was transgender AND a good athlete. That is a rare combination.

The transgender males could have a physical disadvantage in sports competitions when trying to compete against male athletes. That is what it is.

I dont understand what you want? where are these people supposed to compete?

I find this very difficult. I don't know - maybe there are just some things that they don't get to do.

I don't think (many?) people will "fake it" to be more competitive (though past history with some countries tells me that might just be exactly what some do. So maybe, at the most elite levels, it's just one of those things that you simply don't get to do. Oh well. Life goes on.

And this is basically what it boils down to. And I agree with it. Not everyone is entitled to do anything they want, in any way they want, in any circumstance. But in todays climate, many are bending over backwards to ensure that this is the case. I’m not so sure this is the “good thing” that some think it is.

[Anonymous]

Trans needs their own Olympics like the special Olympics