I hate when people assume I have a ton of free time because I SAH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I SAH for about 4 years and definitely agree that free time was not always a benefit (especially once naptime went away!), since if there's no money to outsource lawn care, house cleaning, special enrichment classes etc it's all on you to fill those roles.

But my kids loved going to the store with me when they were 2, so I'm not sure that's something I would avoid. I'd hand them things to put into the cart, we would check out the fresh flowers in the deli section and name the colors, and find so many new and different things to talk about.

I felt that way too until Covid happened and I stopped taking my kid to the store. Then I discovered anew that grocery shopping without a 2 year old is much, much easier than doing it with one. I also don't mind taking my kids to the store and when I was a SAHM it could be a welcome distraction because they viewed it as a form of entertainment and I could get an errand done in the process. But the idea that grocery shopping with a small child is "leisure time" is deranged. It's not.

Exactly. These are the same people who frame a mother getting a 10 minute shower in peace once a week as "self care".

It's way easier to shop without a toddler. But if you have to shop and you have to entertain a toddler for three hours, I personally prefer to kill two birds with one stone and save my toddler-free time for ACTUAL leisure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have more time than someone that works all day and has child care and household responsibilities at night. Makes sense?

Time for what, though? You don't have time to do anything alone. Ever. When I worked, I could easily carve out 10-45 minutes to take care of something alone if I needed to. I SAH now and get zero minutes without children. Every time I use the bathroom, it's interrupted. You can drag kids to CVS or whatever, but that's not really "free time" as it'd take 30 minutes where if you could step out alone, it'd take 5 minutes. Plus, household responsibilities by working parents are cut. They aren't making lunch (and most times nannies prep dinner for kids at least). I have to try to make doctor's appointments on off hours because I literally don't have 10 minutes to sit through a phone menu in silence and look at my calendar to make an appointment. It's far easier to get stuff done during an office job than while watching kids at home. 4-5 hours of my day are out and about with the kids so doing small things like responding to an email or paying a bill online or buying new underwear for your kids online isn't doable. I'm no mommy martyr, I love my life, but acting like SAHPs have the ability to chat on the phone for an hour is a joke. It's "time", but it's not "free time".

How old are your kids? I have days like this, but also this is why God gave us Netflix.

4 and a difficult 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone's boundaries and capacities are different regardless of SAH or WOH. We all know (or are!) SAH parents who stay home precisely so they CAN be involved with the PTA, have more time for working out or working around the house, be the one who volunteers to pick up random things for the kids' classroom, etc. So it's a little rich to sneer that yes, you stay at home, but you are still omg too busy to do these things. The better tack is to graciously hold your boundary if there is ever an incorrect assumption of how you specifically choose to use your time: "I'm sorry, I'm not available to do x at y time." Don't make it a thing.

Well said. And it's certainly reasonable to assume that a SAHM has more free time than a WOH mom!

Not if the children are under the age of 3 (or 4, depending on when they start PK). Being the full time caregiver for a 2 year old will absolutely melt your brain. The idea that it's easier for someone in that situation to do things for other people is crazy. To go back to OP's original point, imagine if you hired a nanny to care for your 2 year old and then the nanny was like "ok, but I've got a bunch of volunteer stuff to do for the PTA at my kid's school, and also I need to run some errands for some of my friends and neighbors, and pick up my sister's friends from school because she has a real job."

A 2 year old is a full time, exhausting job. Full stop. Anyone with kids, whether you SAHed or not, should know that. If you have ever spent 2-3 hours caring for a child this age, you should understand that it does not lend itself to a leisurely life of volunteer work and getting in workouts. When I was a SAHM of a child this age, I probably showered twice a week and regularly just ate cheese slices and an orange for 90% of my meals because I barely had time to take care of myself, much less do favors for friends.

Being a full time parent is exhausting and time consuming, no one is disputing that. The point that a lot of you are missing is that it’s not actually a job - no one is paying you for it, it’s not labor in the Marxian sense. And because of that, you are not accountable to anyone else for your time or performance. You have total flexibility and determination over your day.

Tell that to the 2 year old! Can I watch you explain Karl Marx while he screams at you that he wants yellow cheese, not white cheese, and he wants it RIGHT NOW! You could sell tickets to this little pay and become a true capitalist!

I have young kids, I understand how they act. That does not change the fact that watching your own kids is not a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You have more time than someone that works all day and has child care and household responsibilities at night. Makes sense?

Exactly. No one is saying you are lounging around doing nothing, but imagine being at work 8 hours a day, plus an hour commute each way, and then tack on seeing your child for an hour or two in the evening and then needing to call your parents to check in.

I’m a working mom and I disagree with this. Yes, I’m doing eight hours more of work per day than a SAHP, but they’re doing eight hours more of childcare than I am. Who has more time could go either way. For example, if you’ve got a chill two year old who plays well independently and takes a long afternoon nap, you’ve got more time than someone who works as a waitress in a busy restaurant. If you’ve got a wild two year old who doesn’t nap, you’ve got less time than someone who works in a low key desk job with a lot of flexibility. And of course there’s lots of in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone's boundaries and capacities are different regardless of SAH or WOH. We all know (or are!) SAH parents who stay home precisely so they CAN be involved with the PTA, have more time for working out or working around the house, be the one who volunteers to pick up random things for the kids' classroom, etc. So it's a little rich to sneer that yes, you stay at home, but you are still omg too busy to do these things. The better tack is to graciously hold your boundary if there is ever an incorrect assumption of how you specifically choose to use your time: "I'm sorry, I'm not available to do x at y time." Don't make it a thing.

Well said. And it's certainly reasonable to assume that a SAHM has more free time than a WOH mom!

Not if the children are under the age of 3 (or 4, depending on when they start PK). Being the full time caregiver for a 2 year old will absolutely melt your brain. The idea that it's easier for someone in that situation to do things for other people is crazy. To go back to OP's original point, imagine if you hired a nanny to care for your 2 year old and then the nanny was like "ok, but I've got a bunch of volunteer stuff to do for the PTA at my kid's school, and also I need to run some errands for some of my friends and neighbors, and pick up my sister's friends from school because she has a real job."

A 2 year old is a full time, exhausting job. Full stop. Anyone with kids, whether you SAHed or not, should know that. If you have ever spent 2-3 hours caring for a child this age, you should understand that it does not lend itself to a leisurely life of volunteer work and getting in workouts. When I was a SAHM of a child this age, I probably showered twice a week and regularly just ate cheese slices and an orange for 90% of my meals because I barely had time to take care of myself, much less do favors for friends.

Being a full time parent is exhausting and time consuming, no one is disputing that. The point that a lot of you are missing is that it’s not actually a job - no one is paying you for it, it’s not labor in the Marxian sense. And because of that, you are not accountable to anyone else for your time or performance. You have total flexibility and determination over your day.

Tell that to the 2 year old! Can I watch you explain Karl Marx while he screams at you that he wants yellow cheese, not white cheese, and he wants it RIGHT NOW! You could sell tickets to this little pay and become a true capitalist!

I have young kids, I understand how they act. That does not change the fact that watching your own kids is not a job.

PP is using job and labor as terms of art. It's definitely WORK, and hard work! But if you're not answerable to someone else it's not "labor" or "a job." Fun fact: by these definitions hunter gatherers and freeholding subsistence farmers are also not engaged in labor!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being home with kids may not mean a lot of free time, but it’s certainly more FLEXIBLE than working outside the house. I can run that errand / watch that friend’s kid when they have an emergency / make that phone call, because I can either rearrange my day to make it work or do it while I’m doing other stuff. I have a baby on two naps right now, but when I have a toddler on one nap I LOVE midday errands. I would so much rather walk around the empty grocery store showing him all the different fruit as we shop than sit at home intensively parenting. I would love to have phone calls while I’m making lunch or folding laundry.

But then, I also prefer to call myself a housewife vs a SAHM. I don’t have my attention entirely on my kids the whole time I’m at home. I am also cooking, cleaning, and making all the arrangements for our lives. I wouldn’t want a nanny doing that for HER life, but if I had a WOH job I’d love to pay someone to do it for ours…

Depends on the kid and the job. Lots of people with WFH jobs have that exact flexibility. And some people have more challenging kids than others. I had a 3 year old who went through a phase of having enormous meltdowns any time our schedule changed in any way. That didn't feel flexible AT ALL. Doing basic stuff like going to the grocery story required a ton of work on my part to get my kid ready for that slight change in routine. I would have watched a friend's kid in an emergency, but I also would have known it would almost certainly cause massive struggles with my extremely strong-willed kid.

Anyway, there's just no way to compare these things. Some kids are easier. Some ages are easier. Some jobs are easier. You absolutely cannot assume that a SAHM has more free time or greater flexiblity than someone with a job (hello, the whole point of OP's post is that nanny is a job, and it's not super flexible or filled with free time, so why would you assume being a SAHM is?).

Yes, it definitely depends on the kid. But the difference is that being a SAHM is like being a freelancer and being a nanny is being an employee. Either way you have stuff you have to get done, and it's rude to assume that because someone isn't answerable to an outside "boss" that they can do whatever you want them to do! But it's also true that if your spouse is hit by a car and you need to go to the ER, your SAH or freelancer friend will probably be able to rearrange their day more easily to watch your kids more easily than your nanny or WOH friend.

As a freelancer who used to SAHM, the answer to this is: maybe. It's true that being a SAHM, and being a freelancer, allows you to structure your work (and yes, it is work either way) however you see fit. And most at-will employment does not (though some does -- those jobs do exist). But that doesn't mean you never have deadlines or critical things that cannot be moved or postponed.

Regarding your example of needing someone to watch your kid while you went to the hospital, I honestly think it's up in the air as to who is best able to do this. What if the SAHM is taking her kid to the doctor that afternoon? What if her kid has a horrible virus? What if the freelancer is under an intense deadline? And what if the WOH parent is having a not-super-busy day at work (they happen!). The WOH parent's kid is in childcare already, so she may actually be best able to help you out, if she has the kind of job where she could say "Hey, my friend just got hit by a car and I need to pick their kid up from school while they are at the hospital." I have been in many jobs where my boss would have responded to that with "Of course, go! I hope your friend is okay!" Whereas it would be super awkward to tell a freelance client that I need to postpone a deadline for this reason, because I rarely have that kind of personal relationship and rapport with my clients that I did with a boss of several years. And as a SAHM, if I had a sick kid at home, I could probably figure out a way to do it, but it would be hard.

So the answer is: it depends! Which is why you shouldn't assume that just because someone is a SAHM or a freelancer or single or childfree or whatever, that they are available to you. No one's life is more important than anyone else's life. It's good to help friends when they need you. It's also good to say thank you and recognize when you've imposed. That doesn't mean "never impose" but acknowledge that your friend's time matters and isn't just free for the taking because they are "just" a SAHM.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm a 50-something SAHM of teens. Try that one on for size. My mom mantra is this: what other moms think of me is none of my business.

I don't spend time ruminating on what other women who might say "hi" at most think of me or how I do things. I do things the way I want to do them. Pondering how some other mom might think is a waste of my time and energy, and it gets me nowhere.

You run your day as you need to, OP. You do not need the approval of other mothers. Lead with a quiet confidence. People who criticize are almost always miserable people in their minds and hearts, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone's boundaries and capacities are different regardless of SAH or WOH. We all know (or are!) SAH parents who stay home precisely so they CAN be involved with the PTA, have more time for working out or working around the house, be the one who volunteers to pick up random things for the kids' classroom, etc. So it's a little rich to sneer that yes, you stay at home, but you are still omg too busy to do these things. The better tack is to graciously hold your boundary if there is ever an incorrect assumption of how you specifically choose to use your time: "I'm sorry, I'm not available to do x at y time." Don't make it a thing.

Well said. And it's certainly reasonable to assume that a SAHM has more free time than a WOH mom!

Not if the children are under the age of 3 (or 4, depending on when they start PK). Being the full time caregiver for a 2 year old will absolutely melt your brain. The idea that it's easier for someone in that situation to do things for other people is crazy. To go back to OP's original point, imagine if you hired a nanny to care for your 2 year old and then the nanny was like "ok, but I've got a bunch of volunteer stuff to do for the PTA at my kid's school, and also I need to run some errands for some of my friends and neighbors, and pick up my sister's friends from school because she has a real job."

A 2 year old is a full time, exhausting job. Full stop. Anyone with kids, whether you SAHed or not, should know that. If you have ever spent 2-3 hours caring for a child this age, you should understand that it does not lend itself to a leisurely life of volunteer work and getting in workouts. When I was a SAHM of a child this age, I probably showered twice a week and regularly just ate cheese slices and an orange for 90% of my meals because I barely had time to take care of myself, much less do favors for friends.

Being a full time parent is exhausting and time consuming, no one is disputing that. The point that a lot of you are missing is that it’s not actually a job - no one is paying you for it, it’s not labor in the Marxian sense. And because of that, you are not accountable to anyone else for your time or performance. You have total flexibility and determination over your day.

Tell that to the 2 year old! Can I watch you explain Karl Marx while he screams at you that he wants yellow cheese, not white cheese, and he wants it RIGHT NOW! You could sell tickets to this little pay and become a true capitalist!

I have young kids, I understand how they act. That does not change the fact that watching your own kids is not a job.

It's not a job since you don't get paid. It is labor, and has enormous economic value, which is something Marx might have understood if he had cared for his own children instead of relying on the unpaid labor of women to care for those children while he wrote. Which is why his take is not definitive and deserves some updating and input from the people who have been performing this unpaid labor for all time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being home with kids may not mean a lot of free time, but it’s certainly more FLEXIBLE than working outside the house. I can run that errand / watch that friend’s kid when they have an emergency / make that phone call, because I can either rearrange my day to make it work or do it while I’m doing other stuff. I have a baby on two naps right now, but when I have a toddler on one nap I LOVE midday errands. I would so much rather walk around the empty grocery store showing him all the different fruit as we shop than sit at home intensively parenting. I would love to have phone calls while I’m making lunch or folding laundry.

But then, I also prefer to call myself a housewife vs a SAHM. I don’t have my attention entirely on my kids the whole time I’m at home. I am also cooking, cleaning, and making all the arrangements for our lives. I wouldn’t want a nanny doing that for HER life, but if I had a WOH job I’d love to pay someone to do it for ours…

Depends on the kid and the job. Lots of people with WFH jobs have that exact flexibility. And some people have more challenging kids than others. I had a 3 year old who went through a phase of having enormous meltdowns any time our schedule changed in any way. That didn't feel flexible AT ALL. Doing basic stuff like going to the grocery story required a ton of work on my part to get my kid ready for that slight change in routine. I would have watched a friend's kid in an emergency, but I also would have known it would almost certainly cause massive struggles with my extremely strong-willed kid.

Anyway, there's just no way to compare these things. Some kids are easier. Some ages are easier. Some jobs are easier. You absolutely cannot assume that a SAHM has more free time or greater flexiblity than someone with a job (hello, the whole point of OP's post is that nanny is a job, and it's not super flexible or filled with free time, so why would you assume being a SAHM is?).

Yes, it definitely depends on the kid. But the difference is that being a SAHM is like being a freelancer and being a nanny is being an employee. Either way you have stuff you have to get done, and it's rude to assume that because someone isn't answerable to an outside "boss" that they can do whatever you want them to do! But it's also true that if your spouse is hit by a car and you need to go to the ER, your SAH or freelancer friend will probably be able to rearrange their day more easily to watch your kids more easily than your nanny or WOH friend.

As a freelancer who used to SAHM, the answer to this is: maybe. It's true that being a SAHM, and being a freelancer, allows you to structure your work (and yes, it is work either way) however you see fit. And most at-will employment does not (though some does -- those jobs do exist). But that doesn't mean you never have deadlines or critical things that cannot be moved or postponed.

Regarding your example of needing someone to watch your kid while you went to the hospital, I honestly think it's up in the air as to who is best able to do this. What if the SAHM is taking her kid to the doctor that afternoon? What if her kid has a horrible virus? What if the freelancer is under an intense deadline? And what if the WOH parent is having a not-super-busy day at work (they happen!). The WOH parent's kid is in childcare already, so she may actually be best able to help you out, if she has the kind of job where she could say "Hey, my friend just got hit by a car and I need to pick their kid up from school while they are at the hospital." I have been in many jobs where my boss would have responded to that with "Of course, go! I hope your friend is okay!" Whereas it would be super awkward to tell a freelance client that I need to postpone a deadline for this reason, because I rarely have that kind of personal relationship and rapport with my clients that I did with a boss of several years. And as a SAHM, if I had a sick kid at home, I could probably figure out a way to do it, but it would be hard.

So the answer is: it depends! Which is why you shouldn't assume that just because someone is a SAHM or a freelancer or single or childfree or whatever, that they are available to you. No one's life is more important than anyone else's life. It's good to help friends when they need you. It's also good to say thank you and recognize when you've imposed. That doesn't mean "never impose" but acknowledge that your friend's time matters and isn't just free for the taking because they are "just" a SAHM.

PP. Yes, I think you're right, and this is a good and nuanced point. It is a jerk move to assume that someone isn't busy just because of how they spend their day. I think my "hit by a car" example is not ideal because often the things SAHMs/freelancers are able to do because of their flexibility are more predictable -- I might not be able to watch your kid during your dentist appointment if you ask me the morning of, but if you ask me two weeks ahead of time I can almost certainly make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a real peach

She just sounds dumb. Well, at least she’s suited to her job.

[Anonymous]

You DEFINITELY have more time to run errands than a WOHM. No one is saying it's not hard to be a SAHM, but it definitely provides a lot more flexibility. I can't go grocery shopping during work or do some laundry. ALL of this has to wait till the weekend. If you are also waiting till the weekend to do this, then it seems like you are really doing the SAHM thing wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just saw the thread on the mom who wants to put it in her nanny contract that the nanny not use her cell phone while baby is awake.

I SAH with a 2 year old, and have two school age kids. I definitely use my cell phone during the day, but I DO try to hold myself to similar standards a WOH parent would hold a nanny - that is, I focus on my kid when he’s awake, so no, I don’t have time for an hour long phone call to chat with my parents, or to drive to pick up random things for the older kids classroom, or whatever. And ideally I’d not set up my two year old in front of the TV so I can workout or whatever else people think SAHMs have to a of time for but would NEVER let their nanny do!

That’s all. I find other SAH parents get that my hands are full, but I’m shocked how many WOHMs think I have all this time on my hands when they simultaneously seem aware that a nanny should be focusing on the kid.

I don't think you have a ton of time on your hands, but I also have no idea why you don't get that people have different standards for someone they're literally PAYING to watch their child vs. when they're watching their own child. Parenting is hard enough; don't make it harder than it needs to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have more time than someone that works all day and has child care and household responsibilities at night. Makes sense?

Exactly. No one is saying you are lounging around doing nothing, but imagine being at work 8 hours a day, plus an hour commute each way, and then tack on seeing your child for an hour or two in the evening and then needing to call your parents to check in.

The difference is that a SAH probably doesn't have a cleaning service and it's likely that her DH has dumped his chores on her because ' she has free time'. In reality, the house is getting more messed up from DC being home all day vs. in daycare so SAH has more cleaning not less. The SAH mom is doing all the childcare, all the extra housework and all the cooking. When I worked in an office I could take long lunches, shop on line, have long adult conversations, go to happy hour after work. Going to work in an office was 10X easier than being a SAH.

Then you were a pretty crap-ass parent. Every working mom I know (including myself) works through lunch on a regular basis so she can head out early and spend time with the kids. Happy hour maybe once or twice a month.

[Anonymous]

Then go get a job!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this need for everybody to think your time is so precious.

I’m part of a group of moms some WOH, some WAH, some SAH.

All of us help each other out … snow day, I WAH.., I pick up the kids until everybody can get home.

One SAHM refuses to be “helpful” because “we assume she is doing nothing”.

We all are doing stuff.

When we stopped including her in the “hey can you grab the kids” texts she got all pissy. The other SAH parents don’t act like this. Hey if you are “too busy” to ever help then you don’t get the benefit of everybody else helping.

I’m literally always home so I can always grab the kids. I’m working from home. My time is not some precious jewel.

This. Being asked to do something doesn't mean that the other person doesn't think your time is worth anything or that you have hours and hours of free time. It means they are asking you to do something. And if you really don't have time to run any errands or make any phone calls in 8 hours, you're engaged in some insanely overly intensive parenting. In any case, I agree with the person who said you DO have more free time, you are just choosing to spend it in certain ways and not in others.