student admissions and TJ lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there really a lot of brown and black kids in science olympiad with straight A's in honor courses and advanced math not getting into TJ?

Why do we care if they're in Science Olympiad?

Racism has kept Black and brown kids out of things like Olympiad. Racism in FCPS has always existed and these groups who are now outraged by what’s going on at TJ never had no problem with it. Everything was all good as long as they felt favored by white mommy and white daddy.

Parent volunteer coaches have been gatekeeping access to activities like Science Olympiad and Odyssey of the Mind for years, giving their kids and their friends' kids preferential treatment when it comes to team selection.

It's not really racism (unless it is, I have no idea what's in those folks' hearts) but if team selection comes from parent volunteer coaches, and the parent volunteers are the ones who can afford to take off work or who don't have to work at all, then it's certainly a question of class.

Never mind the questions surrounding whether or not a kid can afford to participate in SciOly in the first place, either from a financial or time perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

Well how do you make things fair and avoid the gaslighting, hate, and discrimination the Black and Brown people have been suffering? I didn’t hear any Asians complaining about Black and brown people not being treated fair when it came TJ selection before they thought less of them would be selected.

The Indian caste system culture has something to do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there really a lot of brown and black kids in science olympiad with straight A's in honor courses and advanced math not getting into TJ?

Why do we care if they're in Science Olympiad?

Racism has kept Black and brown kids out of things like Olympiad. Racism in FCPS has always existed and these groups who are now outraged by what’s going on at TJ never had no problem with it. Everything was all good as long as they felt favored by white mommy and white daddy.

Parent volunteer coaches have been gatekeeping access to activities like Science Olympiad and Odyssey of the Mind for years, giving their kids and their friends' kids preferential treatment when it comes to team selection.

+100000

This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.

Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.

You’re presuming reliable internet access and the technology to be able to run those apps or programs. That’s not a given for many of these families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.

You’re presuming reliable internet access and the technology to be able to run those apps or programs. That’s not a given for many of these families.

What percentage of kids in our county are you claiming to not have internet enabled cellphones, at a minimum? Internet is NOT the problem, it's not using it to learn, or just not being aware of the opportunities available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.

These points are frequently brought up that anyone can seek extra supplements if they actually valued education and were motivated to succeed.

The real difficulty we have in Fairfax is that our URM/high-poverty populations come from third-world countries like Central America, eastern Africa, and the Middle-East. They come and live here, but they aren't living in the same world as the assimilated population. We in Fairfax County are very different than, say, Wyoming, where both the rich and poor are mostly white and have similar cultural upbringing and values.

There doesn't even need to be gatekeeping because they aren't trying to get into the gate because they don't even know a gate exists. That's the unfortunate reality that FCPS wants to address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.

These points are frequently brought up that anyone can seek extra supplements if they actually valued education and were motivated to succeed.

The real difficulty we have in Fairfax is that our URM/high-poverty populations come from third-world countries like Central America, eastern Africa, and the Middle-East. They come and live here, but they aren't living in the same world as the assimilated population. We in Fairfax County are very different than, say, Wyoming, where both the rich and poor are mostly white and have similar cultural upbringing and values.

There doesn't even need to be gatekeeping because they aren't trying to get into the gate because they don't even know a gate exists. That's the unfortunate reality that FCPS wants to address.

Exactly, they have many more real and important things to worry about than how to get into TJ... FCPS using them as a tool for political games is just awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

Well how do you make things fair and avoid the gaslighting, hate, and discrimination the Black and Brown people have been suffering? I didn’t hear any Asians complaining about Black and brown people not being treated fair when it came TJ selection before they thought less of them would be selected.

"Well how do you suggest we fix a problem of neglect without first perpetuating a model of abuse?"

Start off by getting off of your high horse and stop being the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.

Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University admissions will take note of what is happening at TJ and stop treating it as a "guarantee" of rigor. This may take a couple of years, or it may be very quick, but eventually TJ will mean nothing more than any other decent high school in this area. TJ is no longer a "selective" school, as far as admission goes.

Yes, but if they allow things to go back to the way they were and allow Asians to have more spots, TJ will still be viewed as the number 1 high school in America.

Contrary to popular opinion, having the #1 ranking in America hasn’t been a great help to TJ as far as college admissions go.

Because top universities discriminate against Asians.

Which ones? All the ones I know have a high number of Asians when compared to the population of Asians.

This is irrefutably true. Every top university in America has Asians overrepresented by a significant margin. The statement that top universities discriminate against Asians betrays a mindset that Asians are the only meritorious population deserving of spaces in these universities and that the existence of other populations is evidence of malfeasance.

You can refer to this mindset as "Asian supremacy".

The relevant comparison is the number accepted as a percentage of applicants to the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are so mistaken. There is no war at all against Hispanics and Blacks. In fact Asians understand aspiring for opportunity and self betterment very well. It is just that whites are using Hispanics and Blacks as an excuse to beat up Asians who they think are becoming too uppity. No one likes being taken for granted and discriminated against.

I thought the Asians were complaining that Blacks and Hispanics were taking spots at schools like TJ and Ivy’s when Asian kids are more qualified. Is my interpretation incorrect?

I don't think that too many Asian families would have a problem with admitting more Black and Hispanic students - assuming that it was due to doing a better job of identifying and enticing talented URMs. On the other hand, if it's simply because the school system suddenly decides to play with the numbers because there are "too many Asians," a lot of people would have a problem with that. You don't have to be Asian for that to bother you.

If that were the case these parents would all be angry at universities which give preference to legacy students; however, no one seems upset about that. Presumably because white students are the main beneficiaries.

Plenty of people are upset about that of all races.

The Asians aren’t doing that because if they did, that would put them up against white mommy and daddy. That’s the last thing they want us to do. As an earlier poster said, they want to assimilate.

It's more than that - given the relatively high % of Asians in elite colleges, they figure that their own children will benefit from legacy preferences. The reason that white and asian people hate affirmative action is because they do not benefit. They have no problem with preferential admissions policies as long as it helps them (and also don't help groups they deem undesirable).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This parent coaches being the gatekeepers happens A LOT in Elementary School, exp…Science Olympiad, Math Counts, FLL, CompSci competitions.
Then when the students go to Middle School and try out with the Teacher Coaches…those preferred kids get to check “experience” next to the forms and have a leg up on other kids.

Anyone can sign up for AMC8 through FCAG or through any school or program offering the test. Anyone can sign up for CML as a homeschooler, Math Kangaroo, or mathleague. Anyone can get a free AoPS account and use alcumus, Mathcounts trainer app, FTW, or any of the forums there. If Mathcounts and Science Olympiad are handled properly, selection should be competitive and based on performance on a test. I'm not saying that gatekeeping isn't happening, but a motivated family should be able to work around it.

You’re presuming reliable internet access and the technology to be able to run those apps or programs. That’s not a given for many of these families.

But they can afford $1,000 sneakers?