Admissions to change at Thomas Jefferson High, and others

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school appears to be a school for wealthy Asian families that have government type positions in the DC area.

I am dumbfounded at how blatantly Asians are being attacked. It's funny because the same ppl attacking them because of having too many Asians in AAP and TJ, will ask for their solidarity in the name of racial diversity.

Btw, whoever spoke of segregation before, I think the Asians are the ones being segregated at TJ. They should be the ones to be concerned with a system created to facilitate their isolation at TJ.

so then the problem should be fixed and the school desegregated

Desegregated? Did I just time travel to the 50s? WTF are you talking about? Look up the definition of the word before you share your "thoughts" here...

[Anonymous]

Change is coming, and not quickly enough. Scott Surovell has also told people the Governor’s Schools will be eliminated by the General Assembly if the reforms aren’t quickly adopted by FCPS.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/08/11/us/ap-us-racial-injustice-schools.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Another Eastern European immigrant here with a different perspective. The system PP describes is GREAT if you are one of the kids who is not broken by the experience. The whole model is that start with 100 kids and break 99 of them along the way, but the one who doesn't drop out, commit suicide, fail, or develop a repetitive stress injury from practicing violin 8 hours a day - that kid is a winner.

There is no culture of doing music or math or gymnastic (or whatever) for fun or for joy. You do it to attend the conservatory, or gymnasium, or Olympics.

I would much much rather raise my kids here than there, because I've seen what that system does to the kids who don't end up as "winners."

Some statistics from my school, over the period of 4 years that I spent there - 0 students committed suicide, 0 mass shootings or any other extreme violent behavior, 0 "repetitive stress injuries" that I'm aware of. All students from my generation finished high school (of course, not all with As). Roughly 90% went on to finish college as well (college was free). More than 50% have graduate degrees, although the majority of them went on to leave country as well. Experiences and countries differ just like in different school systems here in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a thread recently on the TJ Vents FB Group that talked about the class of 2023 and how their was an Indian man who ran a prepping business that HAD THE ACTUAL test. Apparently it was very similar to the 2022 test and he had gotten a copy of it somehow. Multiple kids responding to the thread indicated that they knew what had happened. There are similar rumors that the class of 2024 also had these issues.

Most of the prep companies do not teach the kid’s to cheat. This company was an outlier, but who knows how many kids he got in.

Another thing that is well-understood in the TJ community is that there are test-prep companies who ask students to memorize one or two of the questions on the Quant-Q - which is fairly well-protected otherwise - and bring them back to the prep company in exchange for a nominal discount. I can't speak to the race of the company or the kids who do it, but it is absolutely a thing that happens. The test changes every year, but the types of questions are fairly consistent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an immigrant from Eastern Europe, who finished a "special" (i.e. advanced) school, I see this whole discussion from a different perspective. Many ex Soviet countries have special public schools for gifted in different disciplines (math, languages, music, ballet, etc). They are very competitive and kids prepare for those from a very young age. Preparing is necessary and something that is actually measured and taken into account (how many years did you compete in the math competitions, how many years did you play the instrument etc). It is something which is considered very positive and shows that the kid is a hard working student. Also, teachers believe that intelligence and gifts can be developed and improved and they will never accept a kid who is not ready. To prepare for a math school, kids have workbooks starting from (if I remember well) second grade. Every workbook has 200 - 300 problems, and by 8th grade, the books have about 500 problems. You must do every single problem from those books during the academic year. On top of that, you have to take extra classes and to finish extra books. The kids have to take an exam in the end of the 8th grade. Kids with top-200 results are accepted into the school. You don't submit a name or school (race, gender and ethnicity are unknown), and it is double blind. You get a number, and search for your score based on that number. The school is very difficult and you can easily fail a grade if you don't prepare for it.

I don't think that preparation is a bad thing. Give every single ES kid a workbook to do over the course of the year to prepare, and then test them. You won't get better equity than that if your goal is to build an intelligent future generation with healthy attitudes about education.

Just my 2 cents.

Another Eastern European immigrant here with a different perspective. The system PP describes is GREAT if you are one of the kids who is not broken by the experience. The whole model is that start with 100 kids and break 99 of them along the way, but the one who doesn't drop out, commit suicide, fail, or develop a repetitive stress injury from practicing violin 8 hours a day - that kid is a winner.

There is no culture of doing music or math or gymnastic (or whatever) for fun or for joy. You do it to attend the conservatory, or gymnasium, or Olympics.

I would much much rather raise my kids here than there, because I've seen what that system does to the kids who don't end up as "winners."

Great response! However, what the people on this board want to do is raise their kids the way you describe and shut down institutions that cater to kids that are raised with discipline. Essentially, if I don't get it, you shouldn't either.. Of course, they will train their son to carry a pigskin across a field and get into a great college but look down on others doing it through academic excellence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a thread recently on the TJ Vents FB Group that talked about the class of 2023 and how their was an Indian man who ran a prepping business that HAD THE ACTUAL test. Apparently it was very similar to the 2022 test and he had gotten a copy of it somehow. Multiple kids responding to the thread indicated that they knew what had happened. There are similar rumors that the class of 2024 also had these issues.

Most of the prep companies do not teach the kid’s to cheat. This company was an outlier, but who knows how many kids he got in.

Another thing that is well-understood in the TJ community is that there are test-prep companies who ask students to memorize one or two of the questions on the Quant-Q - which is fairly well-protected otherwise - and bring them back to the prep company in exchange for a nominal discount. I can't speak to the race of the company or the kids who do it, but it is absolutely a thing that happens. The test changes every year, but the types of questions are fairly consistent.

Are you implying that someone goes to a test prep AFTER they have gotten into TJ? If not, how will they use that "nominal discount"? We need that gumshoe report!
BTW, All of these questions are available on the Internet..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a thread recently on the TJ Vents FB Group that talked about the class of 2023 and how their was an Indian man who ran a prepping business that HAD THE ACTUAL test. Apparently it was very similar to the 2022 test and he had gotten a copy of it somehow. Multiple kids responding to the thread indicated that they knew what had happened. There are similar rumors that the class of 2024 also had these issues.

Most of the prep companies do not teach the kid’s to cheat. This company was an outlier, but who knows how many kids he got in.

You know what, I think there was a news article recently about a huge cheating ring involving hundreds or maybe thousands of white parents paying bribes to college officials to gain asmissions to elite universities. I think it even involved paying white students to take SAT and ACT tests for their children and even changing and correcting answers to those tests after their children took those tests by bribing the test proctors.

I think it even involved white athletic directors, coaches and others to falsify documents to make their children into accomplished athletes when those children were not accomplished athletes. They were saying that this probably went on for decades involving thousands of children. Some parents paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes. Wonder why the parents and school officials are almost all white? Are white people really into bribing and scamming? There is even a talk of other such criminal bribery rings operating in other parts of the country as well. Makes you wonder what else these people are capable of. Wonder why these people are so into cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Change is coming, and not quickly enough. Scott Surovell has also told people the Governor’s Schools will be eliminated by the General Assembly if the reforms aren’t quickly adopted by FCPS.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/08/11/us/ap-us-racial-injustice-schools.html

I don't see Scott saying that in this article. You think the naysayers haven't been trying to shut down the school? I know some jealous types want to shut down this school but don't get your hope up on that. However, I do think it makes a lot of sense to open it up through a lottery system.. Maybe just have the stage 1 test and lottery after that. Of course, fix the stage 1 test so it's thinking based (like the science portion of TJ's test). That would be a constructive solution. I don't think a destructive solution would fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Change is coming, and not quickly enough. Scott Surovell has also told people the Governor’s Schools will be eliminated by the General Assembly if the reforms aren’t quickly adopted by FCPS.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/08/11/us/ap-us-racial-injustice-schools.html

I'm as pro-TJ improvement and reform as anyone, but this is an empty threat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standards as they currently exist for admission favor families that are willing to track their children as early as possible into STEM areas.

This reads suspiciously like "the ability to plan ahead is highly frowned upon"

You know what, if it were the kid's ability to plan ahead, I'd be all for it. But it's not. It's the parents. And the parents aren't the ones going to TJ. So they should be able to do everything that they can for their kids - it just shouldn't have a direct impact on the TJ admissions process.

Let's not pretend that parents don't set an example for their kids and that their kids don't learn from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a thread recently on the TJ Vents FB Group that talked about the class of 2023 and how their was an Indian man who ran a prepping business that HAD THE ACTUAL test. Apparently it was very similar to the 2022 test and he had gotten a copy of it somehow. Multiple kids responding to the thread indicated that they knew what had happened. There are similar rumors that the class of 2024 also had these issues.

Most of the prep companies do not teach the kid’s to cheat. This company was an outlier, but who knows how many kids he got in.

Another thing that is well-understood in the TJ community is that there are test-prep companies who ask students to memorize one or two of the questions on the Quant-Q - which is fairly well-protected otherwise - and bring them back to the prep company in exchange for a nominal discount. I can't speak to the race of the company or the kids who do it, but it is absolutely a thing that happens. The test changes every year, but the types of questions are fairly consistent.

Are you implying that someone goes to a test prep AFTER they have gotten into TJ? If not, how will they use that "nominal discount"? We need that gumshoe report!
BTW, All of these questions are available on the Internet..

No. I'm asserting (because the word "implying" implies doubt) that they get a kickback after the fact, or in some cases that an agreement is reached beforehand. Kids openly admit to this. It's another one of those things that if you're actually around TJ at all, you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So is the goal here to get rid of anything merit-based and if the result is that affluent families leave Fairfax County, that would be okay? Honestly our great school system (to include TJ and AAP) and everything positive that flows from it would go away and turn Fairfax County into Prince William County. No thanks. We need to work on raising everyone up, NOT changing the criteria and lowering the standards so that everyone meets a lowered standard.

That's how socialism works dude.. That's where we are headed. Get with the program!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standards as they currently exist for admission favor families that are willing to track their children as early as possible into STEM areas.

This reads suspiciously like "the ability to plan ahead is highly frowned upon"

You know what, if it were the kid's ability to plan ahead, I'd be all for it. But it's not. It's the parents. And the parents aren't the ones going to TJ. So they should be able to do everything that they can for their kids - it just shouldn't have a direct impact on the TJ admissions process.

Let's not pretend that parents don't set an example for their kids and that their kids don't learn from it.

Oh, no doubt. But the action in these cases is overwhelmingly taken by parents. And that shouldn't impact the process. And it currently does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change is coming, and not quickly enough. Scott Surovell has also told people the Governor’s Schools will be eliminated by the General Assembly if the reforms aren’t quickly adopted by FCPS.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/08/11/us/ap-us-racial-injustice-schools.html

I don't see Scott saying that in this article. You think the naysayers haven't been trying to shut down the school? I know some jealous types want to shut down this school but don't get your hope up on that. However, I do think it makes a lot of sense to open it up through a lottery system.. Maybe just have the stage 1 test and lottery after that. Of course, fix the stage 1 test so it's thinking based (like the science portion of TJ's test). That would be a constructive solution. I don't think a destructive solution would fly.

“We will also consider eliminating Governor’s Schools....”

https://forthuntherald.com/surovell-general-assembly-to-explore-more-equitable-admissions-policies-for-virginias-magnet-schools/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing less than closing the TJ magnet, reclaiming the school for the local community, and county-wide redistricting is acceptable. Either FCPS cares about equity or it does not. TJ does not mitigate pre-existing advantages of parental wealth and education; it magnifies them.

Agreed. Time for big changes.

Countywide redistricting would create major transportation issues, but maybe we could permanently implement virtual learning for X days/week or come up with other creative solutions to address those issues.

County-wide redistricting?! All the woke white people will suddenly pucker up their a-holes and through the schoolboard members out on their asses at the next possible election! To all the social warrior fools.. Most people will welcome changes to the admission process, some reluctantly. After all, diversity is good, finding and fostering intelligence across all social strata is good and helps overall prosperity. Everyone benefits. However, wholesale socialist-type changes like re-districting and shutting down successful programs that impact property values and dumbs down a successful school will not be tolerated. Heck, I'd even vote for the republicans at the school board, county and state levels and push for school vouchers. Enough!