Pelosi announces impeachment inquiry

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

So no. This is the problem.

There was no corruption or problem with Biden. Therefore there is no reason for Trump to ask Zelensky to look into it and no reason for Zelensky to do that on his own.

That's the problem right there. You found it but then you're ignoring it. Because you are not patriotic? For another reason?

So if there was no corruption by Biden and son, then the investigation would go nowhere. What’s the problem?

The problems are twofold. Withholding the military funds, which is against our national interest but is in Trump's personal interest, and inducing a foreign government to meddle in our election, which is not the action of a person of character. It's a high crime, an abuse of office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

So no. This is the problem.

There was no corruption or problem with Biden. Therefore there is no reason for Trump to ask Zelensky to look into it and no reason for Zelensky to do that on his own.

That's the problem right there. You found it but then you're ignoring it. Because you are not patriotic? For another reason?

So if there was no corruption by Biden and son, then the investigation would go nowhere. What’s the problem?

Do you understand Trump at all? He doesn't care whether the dirt is manufactured or real. He was hoping there would be real dirt, but would not be averse to fraudulent one. He just wants something in exchange for donating aid. He has always been allergic to giving money to people, even promised money. He always has the impression he's being gypped. Thus he has always demanded something in return.
It is part of his mental illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not enough of a smoking gun, IMO. And now, Pelosi is going to look like the boy who cried “impeach” one too many times.

I want Trump out, but this is a huge political risk that will energize his base.

Except she only said it ONCE.

You lie in every post.

[Anonymous]

This conversation is so bad, it's not defensible in any way. It scares me that the White House though this would help Trump - what kind of stupid people are running our Executive Branch?

[Anonymous]

Just read the memo. Mercy. Seems clear Giuliani, if he doesn't lie, will be able to clear all this up in a heartbeat. The Ukrainian Pres understood immediately what DT was talking about in terms of investigation, including the specific company, even though DT didn't mention it.
Clearly he had some good notes from Giuliani's previous call/visit with another Uk in which Giuliani said you investigate or else. DT's call was just the pile-on.

Curious - both US and Uk recalled their ambassadors? What was going on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not enough of a smoking gun, IMO. And now, Pelosi is going to look like the boy who cried “impeach” one too many times.

I want Trump out, but this is a huge political risk that will energize his base.

Except she only said it ONCE.

You lie in every post.

I rarely post on the political forums.

I realize she’s been the one hitting the brakes on impeachment, but you’re ignoring how this looks. The call for impeachment has been going on for a long time, or have you not noticed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much to contemplate here. Impeachment looks all but certain, as it should be. Removal is more iffy, but ultimately more likely than not. I tend to think that Warren will be the Democrats’ nominee. In the meantime ... do Republicans need to reconsider the possibility of not allowing real primary challenges to Trump? Under any scenario, the GOP is absolute toast in 2020. We’re talking Warren wins in a landslide and Democrats capture the Senate. America has had enough.

I wonder about this too. Can the states that have canceled primaries reinstate them?

It would take an Ambassador Haley, not some third tier NeverTrumper clown put forth by neocons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

So no. This is the problem.

There was no corruption or problem with Biden. Therefore there is no reason for Trump to ask Zelensky to look into it and no reason for Zelensky to do that on his own.

That's the problem right there. You found it but then you're ignoring it. Because you are not patriotic? For another reason?

So if there was no corruption by Biden and son, then the investigation would go nowhere. What’s the problem?

a president asking a foreign govt to investigate or incriminate or interfere with an election is criminal. That's the problem. I know it is hard for people who don't care that 34 people from the Trump administration have been indicted, submitted guilty pleas or been convicted of crimes to care about new crimes. Thoughts and prayers for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This conversation is so bad, it's not defensible in any way. It scares me that the White House though this would help Trump - what kind of stupid people are running our Executive Branch?

Yes. It's mind-boggling that anyone who try to defend this.

If this was a Democratic President, I would be clamoring to remove him or her from office immediately. I cannot fathom why normal, decent conservatives can't inveigle Romney to run, or someone else of that dimension. You know, a candidate who actually knows right from wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

This is only vague if you are being intentionally obtuse. Again, Trump responds to Zelenskyy's desire to move ahead with military aid by saying, "I would like you to do us a favor though...". Clearly, the "though" means Trump wants the favor first. There is no legitimate reason for the President of Ukraine to investigate Vice President Biden. There is no hint of Biden breaking any Ukrainian laws.

“Though” is also a transition word in English, like “okay” or “alright.” So Trump equally could have been signalling that he was moving on to a new topic that was not necessarily connected in any way to the foregoing discussion of NATO, military aid, etc. Just remember, this was a very quick call and there were several items on his agenda. Point is, you’ll never pin him on this, he’s far too tricky.

Um, no. A synonym to though is however, no alright. Though signifies a restriction on the previous statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not enough of a smoking gun, IMO. And now, Pelosi is going to look like the boy who cried “impeach” one too many times.

I want Trump out, but this is a huge political risk that will energize his base.

Except she only said it ONCE.

You lie in every post.

I rarely post on the political forums.

I realize she’s been the one hitting the brakes on impeachment, but you’re ignoring how this looks. The call for impeachment has been going on for a long time, or have you not noticed?

Then stop lying and pay attention to the words you're using. It's not Pelosi, it's other Democrats. You cannot be credible if you make lying word salad like the current President.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much to contemplate here. Impeachment looks all but certain, as it should be. Removal is more iffy, but ultimately more likely than not. I tend to think that Warren will be the Democrats’ nominee. In the meantime ... do Republicans need to reconsider the possibility of not allowing real primary challenges to Trump? Under any scenario, the GOP is absolute toast in 2020. We’re talking Warren wins in a landslide and Democrats capture the Senate. America has had enough.

I wonder about this too. Can the states that have canceled primaries reinstate them?

It would take an Ambassador Haley, not some third tier NeverTrumper clown put forth by neocons.

To follow up on the bolded, yes, the Republican party can absolutely reinstate primary challenges. They'll have to if the Senators look to their own interests and remove him from office.

I agree it will have to be someone with influence who can rally all the conservatives. Which, for the Republicans, rules out women, as we all know.

[Anonymous]

Impeachment won't be just this. It will also be the 4 instances of obstruction of justice in the russia probe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Impeachment won't be just this. It will also be the 4 instances of obstruction of justice in the russia probe.

They would be fully justified in doing so, but Democrats want to keep it narrow and easy to understand, especially if the whistle-blower complaint turns out to be as blatant and egregious as they think.

[Anonymous]

I think the reason all this is going down is the ‘whistleblower’ heard Crowdstrike being mentioned and freaked