Parents of small children - how are you managing RTO?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

Even if it is part of the benefit package, benefits change. I’ve had employers move from pensions to 401ks, change health insurance carriers and plans, increase premiums, add transit accounts, take away long term care insurance, move to “unlimited” PTO, add telework, reduce telework, rework comp days. A federal government job is more stable than most private sector one, but nothing is guaranteed.

For decades, we’ve heard feds smugly claim how underpaid they are vis-a-vis what they could be making in the private sector, but that they endure because of their morally superior sense of duty and service. Meanwhile, we hear about the million-dollar (+) close-in homes you live in, and the more evolved vacations you take because you are better with money than we are.

I think a good part of America is struggling to understand why there is now so much panic about forks and RIFs and RTO, if you were making such a mission-driven sacrifice in the first place. Why not take one of these plentiful private sector jobs that you were oh-so-qualified for but didn’t take? Or why your dedication to public service is gone now that you have to put your kids in daycare and commute during rush hour like the rest of us?

Was it really moral superiority, or did you just have a good deal, and now that that deal is gone, you’re facing the same trade-offs that the rest of America faces?

You're smashing together a whole bunch of different experiences and stereotypes here as though one person is saying all of them. I certainly don't have a million dollar close in home and lucrative private sector options (I work in land management, not one of the park rangers fired last week but sure do know a lot of them).

Most of my agency is already on site, not WFH, and our commutes are long because our salaries are low and it's very very hard for dual career couples to find work in the same location. We are worried about RIFs because ANYONE would be worried to be told layoffs are coming. Have some empathy.

DP here. I have empathy. It is a stressful time of uncertainty for the entire country. But it's a bit like the woman who acts like she's the first person ever to be pregnant or have a baby. Economic and job uncertainty is nothing new, even if it's "new" in the working lifetime of today's 30 year olds. It's the excessive hand-wringing and the "whatever will we do???" mentality that is hard to take. OP was completely fine - she was merely asking for tips and suggestions. Which is what she should do. It's everyone that came next that just wants to whine and stomp their feet insisting this isn't fair.

+1,000

-1,000. Neither of you have empathy. And it ISN'T fair. But it could be. Because it was. And it was working for the agencies and for the employee. Those of you who don't get that and don't care are little more than corporate slaves. Advocate for something better instead of accepting the status quo and bashing others who want what they were promised.

Exactly. All the private sector PPs on all these job threads going on about "welcome to the real world" nonsense are showing nothing more than their schadenfreude and envy. Do they think the uncertainty and unfair practices they face are BETTER? That they are good things? I doubt it. They are just being snarky aholes.

There is no justification for what is happening to feds now. Fired without cause and vilified in the process. If true efficiency and cost savings were the goal, this would be done more carefully and fairly. Anyone saying what is happening now if fine is a jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

Even if it is part of the benefit package, benefits change. I’ve had employers move from pensions to 401ks, change health insurance carriers and plans, increase premiums, add transit accounts, take away long term care insurance, move to “unlimited” PTO, add telework, reduce telework, rework comp days. A federal government job is more stable than most private sector one, but nothing is guaranteed.

For decades, we’ve heard feds smugly claim how underpaid they are vis-a-vis what they could be making in the private sector, but that they endure because of their morally superior sense of duty and service. Meanwhile, we hear about the million-dollar (+) close-in homes you live in, and the more evolved vacations you take because you are better with money than we are.

I think a good part of America is struggling to understand why there is now so much panic about forks and RIFs and RTO, if you were making such a mission-driven sacrifice in the first place. Why not take one of these plentiful private sector jobs that you were oh-so-qualified for but didn’t take? Or why your dedication to public service is gone now that you have to put your kids in daycare and commute during rush hour like the rest of us?

Was it really moral superiority, or did you just have a good deal, and now that that deal is gone, you’re facing the same trade-offs that the rest of America faces?

You're smashing together a whole bunch of different experiences and stereotypes here as though one person is saying all of them. I certainly don't have a million dollar close in home and lucrative private sector options (I work in land management, not one of the park rangers fired last week but sure do know a lot of them).

Most of my agency is already on site, not WFH, and our commutes are long because our salaries are low and it's very very hard for dual career couples to find work in the same location. We are worried about RIFs because ANYONE would be worried to be told layoffs are coming. Have some empathy.

DP here. I have empathy. It is a stressful time of uncertainty for the entire country. But it's a bit like the woman who acts like she's the first person ever to be pregnant or have a baby. Economic and job uncertainty is nothing new, even if it's "new" in the working lifetime of today's 30 year olds. It's the excessive hand-wringing and the "whatever will we do???" mentality that is hard to take. OP was completely fine - she was merely asking for tips and suggestions. Which is what she should do. It's everyone that came next that just wants to whine and stomp their feet insisting this isn't fair.

+1,000

-1,000. Neither of you have empathy. And it ISN'T fair. But it could be. Because it was. And it was working for the agencies and for the employee. Those of you who don't get that and don't care are little more than corporate slaves. Advocate for something better instead of accepting the status quo and bashing others who want what they were promised.

Why don't YOU go "advocate for something better" whatever that means, instead of whining online about fairness like a 6 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe how many moms think oh well I had it tough so other moms should too. I had a very toxic job at one point— I would Never want someone else to have that job. I want things to IMPROVE.

Amen! We should be going forward, not backward. The complete lack of flexibility makes things more difficult than they should be. I don't understand why posters here can't empathize and want things to be better for all of us.

This is the crux of it. Too many people who feel they suffered so everyone else must too. No one saying that before was BETTER. Because it wasn't. Flexibility is better for families and work didn't suffer. This is arbitrary BS designed to make things so hard that PEOPLE QUIT. That's the goal. How can others be so heartless and soulless that they *enjoy* and *justify* the idea of making things harder for families. That going backwards is good because everyone should suck it up like they did. All these "suck it up" posters would have gobbled up the chances at flexibility if they had been offered back then. They are liars if they say otherwise.

So. Many. Aholes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

Even if it is part of the benefit package, benefits change. I’ve had employers move from pensions to 401ks, change health insurance carriers and plans, increase premiums, add transit accounts, take away long term care insurance, move to “unlimited” PTO, add telework, reduce telework, rework comp days. A federal government job is more stable than most private sector one, but nothing is guaranteed.

For decades, we’ve heard feds smugly claim how underpaid they are vis-a-vis what they could be making in the private sector, but that they endure because of their morally superior sense of duty and service. Meanwhile, we hear about the million-dollar (+) close-in homes you live in, and the more evolved vacations you take because you are better with money than we are.

I think a good part of America is struggling to understand why there is now so much panic about forks and RIFs and RTO, if you were making such a mission-driven sacrifice in the first place. Why not take one of these plentiful private sector jobs that you were oh-so-qualified for but didn’t take? Or why your dedication to public service is gone now that you have to put your kids in daycare and commute during rush hour like the rest of us?

Was it really moral superiority, or did you just have a good deal, and now that that deal is gone, you’re facing the same trade-offs that the rest of America faces?

You're smashing together a whole bunch of different experiences and stereotypes here as though one person is saying all of them. I certainly don't have a million dollar close in home and lucrative private sector options (I work in land management, not one of the park rangers fired last week but sure do know a lot of them).

Most of my agency is already on site, not WFH, and our commutes are long because our salaries are low and it's very very hard for dual career couples to find work in the same location. We are worried about RIFs because ANYONE would be worried to be told layoffs are coming. Have some empathy.

DP here. I have empathy. It is a stressful time of uncertainty for the entire country. But it's a bit like the woman who acts like she's the first person ever to be pregnant or have a baby. Economic and job uncertainty is nothing new, even if it's "new" in the working lifetime of today's 30 year olds. It's the excessive hand-wringing and the "whatever will we do???" mentality that is hard to take. OP was completely fine - she was merely asking for tips and suggestions. Which is what she should do. It's everyone that came next that just wants to whine and stomp their feet insisting this isn't fair.

+1,000

-1,000. Neither of you have empathy. And it ISN'T fair. But it could be. Because it was. And it was working for the agencies and for the employee. Those of you who don't get that and don't care are little more than corporate slaves. Advocate for something better instead of accepting the status quo and bashing others who want what they were promised.

Why don't YOU go "advocate for something better" whatever that means, instead of whining online about fairness like a 6 year old.

Why don't you go pound sand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

Even if it is part of the benefit package, benefits change. I’ve had employers move from pensions to 401ks, change health insurance carriers and plans, increase premiums, add transit accounts, take away long term care insurance, move to “unlimited” PTO, add telework, reduce telework, rework comp days. A federal government job is more stable than most private sector one, but nothing is guaranteed.

For decades, we’ve heard feds smugly claim how underpaid they are vis-a-vis what they could be making in the private sector, but that they endure because of their morally superior sense of duty and service. Meanwhile, we hear about the million-dollar (+) close-in homes you live in, and the more evolved vacations you take because you are better with money than we are.

I think a good part of America is struggling to understand why there is now so much panic about forks and RIFs and RTO, if you were making such a mission-driven sacrifice in the first place. Why not take one of these plentiful private sector jobs that you were oh-so-qualified for but didn’t take? Or why your dedication to public service is gone now that you have to put your kids in daycare and commute during rush hour like the rest of us?

Was it really moral superiority, or did you just have a good deal, and now that that deal is gone, you’re facing the same trade-offs that the rest of America faces?

You're smashing together a whole bunch of different experiences and stereotypes here as though one person is saying all of them. I certainly don't have a million dollar close in home and lucrative private sector options (I work in land management, not one of the park rangers fired last week but sure do know a lot of them).

Most of my agency is already on site, not WFH, and our commutes are long because our salaries are low and it's very very hard for dual career couples to find work in the same location. We are worried about RIFs because ANYONE would be worried to be told layoffs are coming. Have some empathy.

DP here. I have empathy. It is a stressful time of uncertainty for the entire country. But it's a bit like the woman who acts like she's the first person ever to be pregnant or have a baby. Economic and job uncertainty is nothing new, even if it's "new" in the working lifetime of today's 30 year olds. It's the excessive hand-wringing and the "whatever will we do???" mentality that is hard to take. OP was completely fine - she was merely asking for tips and suggestions. Which is what she should do. It's everyone that came next that just wants to whine and stomp their feet insisting this isn't fair.

+1,000

-1,000. Neither of you have empathy. And it ISN'T fair. But it could be. Because it was. And it was working for the agencies and for the employee. Those of you who don't get that and don't care are little more than corporate slaves. Advocate for something better instead of accepting the status quo and bashing others who want what they were promised.

Why don't YOU go "advocate for something better" whatever that means, instead of whining online about fairness like a 6 year old.

Why don't you go pound sand.

Same question to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We pay for pre-care and after-care. It’s wonderful to know that it is there as we need it. If we come home early one day, then just pick the DC up. It’s an expense that gives peace of mind. I don’t want to keep hiring Nannie’s and teens for an hour here or there. I don’t want to keep searching on care.com. We just sucked up and paid for the given spot.

I our school district you will lose your lost if your kid misses too many days of before/after care. Also, there's a waiting list a mile long. This is not an option available to everyone.

[Anonymous]

^^Lose your slot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe how many moms think oh well I had it tough so other moms should too. I had a very toxic job at one point— I would Never want someone else to have that job. I want things to IMPROVE.

Amen! We should be going forward, not backward. The complete lack of flexibility makes things more difficult than they should be. I don't understand why posters here can't empathize and want things to be better for all of us.

This is the crux of it. Too many people who feel they suffered so everyone else must too. No one saying that before was BETTER. Because it wasn't. Flexibility is better for families and work didn't suffer. This is arbitrary BS designed to make things so hard that PEOPLE QUIT. That's the goal. How can others be so heartless and soulless that they *enjoy* and *justify* the idea of making things harder for families. That going backwards is good because everyone should suck it up like they did. All these "suck it up" posters would have gobbled up the chances at flexibility if they had been offered back then. They are liars if they say otherwise.

So. Many. Aholes.

Nope, we just made better more realistic choices. Smaller, less fancy homes closer to work. One car that's older and not luxury. A parent working PT or mommy-tracked or whatever was necessary to making family life work with young children. You can make these choices too. You just don't want to. Own it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pay for pre-care and after-care. It’s wonderful to know that it is there as we need it. If we come home early one day, then just pick the DC up. It’s an expense that gives peace of mind. I don’t want to keep hiring Nannie’s and teens for an hour here or there. I don’t want to keep searching on care.com. We just sucked up and paid for the given spot.

I our school district you will lose your lost if your kid misses too many days of before/after care. Also, there's a waiting list a mile long. This is not an option available to everyone.

Where we live there are plenty of TKD/ballet/gymnastics type places that pick up at the schools. More people use these than the onsite programs. You don't have to sign up for all 5 days if you don't want to, and they don't care if you don't use the spot every day you have paid for. Look around - I'm sure these exist where you are, in addition to in home situations as well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe how many moms think oh well I had it tough so other moms should too. I had a very toxic job at one point— I would Never want someone else to have that job. I want things to IMPROVE.

Amen! We should be going forward, not backward. The complete lack of flexibility makes things more difficult than they should be. I don't understand why posters here can't empathize and want things to be better for all of us.

This is the crux of it. Too many people who feel they suffered so everyone else must too. No one saying that before was BETTER. Because it wasn't. Flexibility is better for families and work didn't suffer. This is arbitrary BS designed to make things so hard that PEOPLE QUIT. That's the goal. How can others be so heartless and soulless that they *enjoy* and *justify* the idea of making things harder for families. That going backwards is good because everyone should suck it up like they did. All these "suck it up" posters would have gobbled up the chances at flexibility if they had been offered back then. They are liars if they say otherwise.

So. Many. Aholes.

Nope, we just made better more realistic choices. Smaller, less fancy homes closer to work. One car that's older and not luxury. A parent working PT or mommy-tracked or whatever was necessary to making family life work with young children. You can make these choices too. You just don't want to. Own it.

DP. I AM the part time mommy tracked parent now wasting 10 extea hours a week in traffic. Mind you, part time hours come along with part time pay but still full time childcare expenses.

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Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

Even if it is part of the benefit package, benefits change. I’ve had employers move from pensions to 401ks, change health insurance carriers and plans, increase premiums, add transit accounts, take away long term care insurance, move to “unlimited” PTO, add telework, reduce telework, rework comp days. A federal government job is more stable than most private sector one, but nothing is guaranteed.

For decades, we’ve heard feds smugly claim how underpaid they are vis-a-vis what they could be making in the private sector, but that they endure because of their morally superior sense of duty and service. Meanwhile, we hear about the million-dollar (+) close-in homes you live in, and the more evolved vacations you take because you are better with money than we are.

I think a good part of America is struggling to understand why there is now so much panic about forks and RIFs and RTO, if you were making such a mission-driven sacrifice in the first place. Why not take one of these plentiful private sector jobs that you were oh-so-qualified for but didn’t take? Or why your dedication to public service is gone now that you have to put your kids in daycare and commute during rush hour like the rest of us?

Was it really moral superiority, or did you just have a good deal, and now that that deal is gone, you’re facing the same trade-offs that the rest of America faces?

You're smashing together a whole bunch of different experiences and stereotypes here as though one person is saying all of them. I certainly don't have a million dollar close in home and lucrative private sector options (I work in land management, not one of the park rangers fired last week but sure do know a lot of them).

Most of my agency is already on site, not WFH, and our commutes are long because our salaries are low and it's very very hard for dual career couples to find work in the same location. We are worried about RIFs because ANYONE would be worried to be told layoffs are coming. Have some empathy.

DP here. I have empathy. It is a stressful time of uncertainty for the entire country. But it's a bit like the woman who acts like she's the first person ever to be pregnant or have a baby. Economic and job uncertainty is nothing new, even if it's "new" in the working lifetime of today's 30 year olds. It's the excessive hand-wringing and the "whatever will we do???" mentality that is hard to take. OP was completely fine - she was merely asking for tips and suggestions. Which is what she should do. It's everyone that came next that just wants to whine and stomp their feet insisting this isn't fair.

+1,000

-1,000. Neither of you have empathy. And it ISN'T fair. But it could be. Because it was. And it was working for the agencies and for the employee. Those of you who don't get that and don't care are little more than corporate slaves. Advocate for something better instead of accepting the status quo and bashing others who want what they were promised.

Why don't YOU go "advocate for something better" whatever that means, instead of whining online about fairness like a 6 year old.

Why don't you go pound sand.

Same question to you.

I'm not the soulless jerk on an anonymous message board kicking people when they are down. That is you. How broken does a person have to be to behave like you? How do you live with yourself?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe how many moms think oh well I had it tough so other moms should too. I had a very toxic job at one point— I would Never want someone else to have that job. I want things to IMPROVE.

Amen! We should be going forward, not backward. The complete lack of flexibility makes things more difficult than they should be. I don't understand why posters here can't empathize and want things to be better for all of us.

This is the crux of it. Too many people who feel they suffered so everyone else must too. No one saying that before was BETTER. Because it wasn't. Flexibility is better for families and work didn't suffer. This is arbitrary BS designed to make things so hard that PEOPLE QUIT. That's the goal. How can others be so heartless and soulless that they *enjoy* and *justify* the idea of making things harder for families. That going backwards is good because everyone should suck it up like they did. All these "suck it up" posters would have gobbled up the chances at flexibility if they had been offered back then. They are liars if they say otherwise.

So. Many. Aholes.

Nope, we just made better more realistic choices. Smaller, less fancy homes closer to work. One car that's older and not luxury. A parent working PT or mommy-tracked or whatever was necessary to making family life work with young children. You can make these choices too. You just don't want to. Own it.

Your lack of a soul is disturbing. What makes you think you can judge other people whose choices were made under different circumstances than yours and about whom you have NO IDEA what their choices and circumstances are. What is wrong with you? Oh yea, no soul.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Gotta do what ya gotta do.

We were spoiled with remote jobs.

But moms have been doing this for decades before.

Put your big girl pants on and learn to juggle a job and kids like the rest of us.

Your kids will get older and it gets easier. They will get more self sufficient.

Np. No moms haven’t been juggling like this. My grandmas were fired in the 50s as soon as they got pregnant. My mom and dhs mom worked part time/nights/weekends and made a lot less than they could have. Is this what society wants for women still?

Stupidly I thought I’d have more choices when I grew up. I should have chosen a major and career that would allow for part time work or had hours that fit schools. Dh and I both had flexible jobs with 1-2 days of telework that allowed both of us to be there for our kids and those are gone now.

Boomer and Genx women definitely juggled like you. Get a grip.

On the other hand, just because they juggled doesn't mean that's the standard of what we should continue to strive for. It's like brushing off the invention of the dishwasher because grandma has always hand washed dishes. Women should always be happy for technical advances that help make life easier for future women.

What's annoying is this new crop of mothers who seem so helpless and hapless. "How will I ever make this work!?" It reeks of childishness. Just like the rest of your life, you adapt.

Ah yes, another older Gen X housewares drinker who thinks the next generation doesn’t deserve better.

— young Gen X who is embarrassed by my generation’s boomer moments

Gen X had real men who were willing to support their children.

Gen Z rather play video games and raise cats.

Go back to /b/

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Anonymous wrote:So much drama about family values and this country provides zero supports to working parents, as a society we are cruel, individualistic and mean. No wonder we have mentally fu*ked up kids blowing up other kids in schools. This talk of the greatest, wealthiest nation is just bs, wealth and benefits only for the billionaire class, the rest can spend their lives in servitude to the rich.

I don’t see where this is coming from. I grew up a “latch key” kid (remember when that was a thing) and my kids were in daycare while DH and I were in the office full time.

Is the implication that daycare is causing school shootings?

Maybe having parents around all the time is causing the anxiety and depression spikes in kids.

Please go into the general parenting forum and express that kids should be removed from their parents for more hours of the day in order to prevent anxiety and depression and school shootings.

I’m not suggesting that should happen. I’m pointing out correlation does not equal causation. RTO will not increase school shootings. Before and after care will probably have no impact on anxiety/depression in kids.

I’m suggesting you should see the reaction from parents to suggesting that. Particularly if you identify yourself as a mother.

No one loves these years when you feel squeezed beyond belief- financially, physically, emotionally. I am a mother who has been through this stage and it was hard. We paid $40k a year for daycare. I’m sure it’s more now. And then we paid for aftercare. You and others will go through this stage and it will be hard. There is no way around it but through it.

THERE IS A WAY AROUND IT. Telework an workplace flex.

I am the 4am pp from above. We don’t have enough space for everyone at the office, so it is telework every other week. Not too bad in my opinion. The 4am wake up call really sucks!!!!!!

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Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

No actually. Part of the reason I chose to work in my agency and not in a law firm was because it allowed me to have a hybrid schedule. I wanted a job where I didn’t have to commute into DC five days a week. Same with my husband. We made our life decisions (such as the decision to have three kids) based on our work schedules. Get it?

And apparently assumed, for some bizarre reason, that it would stay exactly the same in perpetuity until retirement. Your mistake.

+1. I can’t even with this.

Why not. It’s part of the benefit package that they advertise when you get hired: healthcare, dental benefits, paid leave depending on years of service and flexible work options. We make less but have better benefits.

It’s not “part of the benefit package” that your job and responsibilities and situation will remain exactly the same your entire career. Have you ever even had another job besides your Fed job? It doesn’t sound like it. Jobs, job situations, job duties, bosses, coworkers, and other aspects of your job are not promised and not forever. If you think you can find a different job that promises you full telework and full job security forever, you should definitely take it.

Even if it is part of the benefit package, benefits change. I’ve had employers move from pensions to 401ks, change health insurance carriers and plans, increase premiums, add transit accounts, take away long term care insurance, move to “unlimited” PTO, add telework, reduce telework, rework comp days. A federal government job is more stable than most private sector one, but nothing is guaranteed.

For decades, we’ve heard feds smugly claim how underpaid they are vis-a-vis what they could be making in the private sector, but that they endure because of their morally superior sense of duty and service. Meanwhile, we hear about the million-dollar (+) close-in homes you live in, and the more evolved vacations you take because you are better with money than we are.

I think a good part of America is struggling to understand why there is now so much panic about forks and RIFs and RTO, if you were making such a mission-driven sacrifice in the first place. Why not take one of these plentiful private sector jobs that you were oh-so-qualified for but didn’t take? Or why your dedication to public service is gone now that you have to put your kids in daycare and commute during rush hour like the rest of us?

Was it really moral superiority, or did you just have a good deal, and now that that deal is gone, you’re facing the same trade-offs that the rest of America faces?

TLDR: "I can't have flexibility so nobody can have flexibility"

In reality, it's that this crop of workers has never needed to be flexible themselves, and now they can't flex their brain to adapt to a changing environment. I highly recommend the book "Who Moved My Cheese?"

This isn’t the own you think it is. They tried to starve the mice out for sport. Seems accurate.

It was a research exercise. The ones who realized they needed to look elsewhere for the cheese were most successful. But you'd rather stand still pouting and saying how unfair it is. Starve then.

You know who else did research exercises on humans right?

Again, this isn’t the own you think it is.

THE BOOK was a research exercise. You can't actually be this stupid.

The book is aggressively stupid. I don't think as a middle aged woman I could market myself as a charismatic corporate advice guru, but I am 100% sure I could write a less dumb book.

Not only is it aggressively stupid but PP thought it was true and not made up. So, like, doubly aggressively stupid.