Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
What about utilizing and enhancing our excellent ART, Metrobus, and Metrorail systems instead of complex school bus schemes? Students in DC are expected to use public transport.
When our excellent bus and rail system is able to get students to and from school and to and from activities in a timely manner, absolutely. We live 2 miles from our neighborhood high school (just eligible for school busing). I looked into it and if my kid took ART/Metro, it would require 2 transfers and at least 45 minutes IF the buses all showed up and all ran on time. And even that did not line up well with the start and end times of the school day.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
What about utilizing and enhancing our excellent ART, Metrobus, and Metrorail systems instead of complex school bus schemes? Students in DC are expected to use public transport.
When our excellent bus and rail system is able to get students to and from school and to and from activities in a timely manner, absolutely. We live 2 miles from our neighborhood high school (just eligible for school busing). I looked into it and if my kid took ART/Metro, it would require 2 transfers and at least 45 minutes IF the buses all showed up and all ran on time. And even that did not line up well with the start and end times of the school day.
PP here adding: For those schools and neighborhoods with efficient routes, APS and the County should go ahead and make that happen. Eliminating routes would at least ease the issues with bus driver shortage for the rest of the neighborhoods.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
What about utilizing and enhancing our excellent ART, Metrobus, and Metrorail systems instead of complex school bus schemes? Students in DC are expected to use public transport.
When our excellent bus and rail system is able to get students to and from school and to and from activities in a timely manner, absolutely. We live 2 miles from our neighborhood high school (just eligible for school busing). I looked into it and if my kid took ART/Metro, it would require 2 transfers and at least 45 minutes IF the buses all showed up and all ran on time. And even that did not line up well with the start and end times of the school day.
APS would need to coordinate with the transit agencies just like DC does (and most of Europe). This would also help with the chronic shortage of schooo bus drivers.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
What about utilizing and enhancing our excellent ART, Metrobus, and Metrorail systems instead of complex school bus schemes? Students in DC are expected to use public transport.
When our excellent bus and rail system is able to get students to and from school and to and from activities in a timely manner, absolutely. We live 2 miles from our neighborhood high school (just eligible for school busing). I looked into it and if my kid took ART/Metro, it would require 2 transfers and at least 45 minutes IF the buses all showed up and all ran on time. And even that did not line up well with the start and end times of the school day.
PP here adding: For those schools and neighborhoods with efficient routes, APS and the County should go ahead and make that happen. Eliminating routes would at least ease the issues with bus driver shortage for the rest of the neighborhoods.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
This person is absurd. All you have to do when looking at this conversation is compare prices in the north and south sides of Arlington Forest. Its the exact same track house, same age of house, same lot size, same proximity to Rt. 50 and proximity to walking trails. North Arlington Forest houses go for 100K to 200K more than their equivalent south of 50. There is a reason that the North neighborhood went batshit insane when they were trying to redistrict them to Wakefield.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
This person is absurd. All you have to do when looking at this conversation is compare prices in the north and south sides of Arlington Forest. Its the exact same track house, same age of house, same lot size, same proximity to Rt. 50 and proximity to walking trails. North Arlington Forest houses go for 100K to 200K more than their equivalent south of 50. There is a reason that the North neighborhood went batshit insane when they were trying to redistrict them to Wakefield.
I thought it was all about walkability for the outspoken group against the move to Wakefield? Didn’t some northside forest families want to move to Wakefield? I don’t recall any mention of housing prices, although I’m not saying you’re wrong.
Anyways APS caved at the last minute and kept Maywood, parts of Cherrydale, Bluemont, Lacey Woods, and Tara at W-L, instead of moving them to Yorktown along with the others, due to the whole walkability argument. And of course, Arlington Forest (northside) was supposed to move to Wakefield, but those parents also claimed walkability to W-L and APS caved.
So who knows. I’m not from any of the above neighborhoods, but that’s what I remember. And currently APS prioritizes walkability and proximity above all else. Isn’t that why Nottingham was kept open?
Yes, in all those instances, you are correct that walkability was the excuse each group used to oppose being moved to what they perceived to be an inferior school. And yes, property values were absolutely mentioned by Arlington Forest anti-Wakefield advocates.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
1. Transportation is the easy default excuse. Tired of it.
2. Transportation currently is challenged and the adherence to neighborhood boundaries may even contribute to that since so many neighborhood schools are so close to each other.
It's not an excuse, but reality. Explain how a county-wide lottery would work where APS is required to provide transportation?
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
A) what a logistical nightmare with having kids change buses.
B) It is unreasonable to expect kids and families take on the brunt of fixing disparities by having longer commutes/potentially going to school farther from home and away from neighborhood friends. The underlying issue is about housing policy. Fix housing and messing with the school boundaries will be moot.
My kids go to a neighborhood school and their social circle of friends and sports teammates is made up of kids that live mostly within walking/biking distance of our home. Having a support system of families close by to rely on for carpools, emergency contacts, after school play dates, etc. is invaluable. And it’s not just NA families who benefit from this. Many families in SA do not want to have to trek cross county to pick up a sick kid or attend a PTA event. Play dates are more complicated when your kid has friends all over the county (this is one thing I really disliked about private school as a kid and why I wanted my kids at a neighborhood school).
Stop making it the schools’ responsibility to retroactively address historical racism. Push for more affordable housing options during Plan Langston.
This assumes affordable housing must only be for families. Right now homeless individuals desperately need housing. The Foggy Bottom tent encampment was just removed at the Mayor’s orders. Senior citizens also need affordable options and not expensive, luxury accommodations like Sunrise and the Jefferson. Arlington should be building heavily subsidized affordable housing for all groups in all commercial corridors all over, and not a specific demographic in a specific neighborhood just to stick it to the wealthy folks.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
This person is absurd. All you have to do when looking at this conversation is compare prices in the north and south sides of Arlington Forest. Its the exact same track house, same age of house, same lot size, same proximity to Rt. 50 and proximity to walking trails. North Arlington Forest houses go for 100K to 200K more than their equivalent south of 50. There is a reason that the North neighborhood went batshit insane when they were trying to redistrict them to Wakefield.
I thought it was all about walkability for the outspoken group against the move to Wakefield? Didn’t some northside forest families want to move to Wakefield? I don’t recall any mention of housing prices, although I’m not saying you’re wrong.
Anyways APS caved at the last minute and kept Maywood, parts of Cherrydale, Bluemont, Lacey Woods, and Tara at W-L, instead of moving them to Yorktown along with the others, due to the whole walkability argument. And of course, Arlington Forest (northside) was supposed to move to Wakefield, but those parents also claimed walkability to W-L and APS caved.
So who knows. I’m not from any of the above neighborhoods, but that’s what I remember. And currently APS prioritizes walkability and proximity above all else. Isn’t that why Nottingham was kept open?
Yes, in all those instances, you are correct that walkability was the excuse each group used to oppose being moved to what they perceived to be an inferior school. And yes, property values were absolutely mentioned by Arlington Forest anti-Wakefield advocates.
But it isn't why Nottingham was kept open as a neighborhood school.
That was because APS' various departments couldn't get their s--- together and temporarily dropped the proposal. With the reorg at Syphax now, it is likely dead for good, though. But again, not because it's a walkable school. Just about every school is a walkable school for many of its students.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
A) what a logistical nightmare with having kids change buses.
B) It is unreasonable to expect kids and families take on the brunt of fixing disparities by having longer commutes/potentially going to school farther from home and away from neighborhood friends. The underlying issue is about housing policy. Fix housing and messing with the school boundaries will be moot.
My kids go to a neighborhood school and their social circle of friends and sports teammates is made up of kids that live mostly within walking/biking distance of our home. Having a support system of families close by to rely on for carpools, emergency contacts, after school play dates, etc. is invaluable. And it’s not just NA families who benefit from this. Many families in SA do not want to have to trek cross county to pick up a sick kid or attend a PTA event. Play dates are more complicated when your kid has friends all over the county (this is one thing I really disliked about private school as a kid and why I wanted my kids at a neighborhood school).
Stop making it the schools’ responsibility to retroactively address historical racism. Push for more affordable housing options during Plan Langston.
This assumes affordable housing must only be for families. Right now homeless individuals desperately need housing. The Foggy Bottom tent encampment was just removed at the Mayor’s orders. Senior citizens also need affordable options and not expensive, luxury accommodations like Sunrise and the Jefferson. Arlington should be building heavily subsidized affordable housing for all groups in all commercial corridors all over, and not a specific demographic in a specific neighborhood just to stick it to the wealthy folks.
That’s fine. We can’t force families to move into affordable housing in certain parts of the county. But we can make it available and hopefully see some more demographic diversity in the N over time. But bussing a bunch of kids in rush hour traffic instead of letting them go to school close to home with their friends is not the solution. No kid wants to spend 30-40 minutes on a bus each way.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
A) what a logistical nightmare with having kids change buses.
B) It is unreasonable to expect kids and families take on the brunt of fixing disparities by having longer commutes/potentially going to school farther from home and away from neighborhood friends. The underlying issue is about housing policy. Fix housing and messing with the school boundaries will be moot.
My kids go to a neighborhood school and their social circle of friends and sports teammates is made up of kids that live mostly within walking/biking distance of our home. Having a support system of families close by to rely on for carpools, emergency contacts, after school play dates, etc. is invaluable. And it’s not just NA families who benefit from this. Many families in SA do not want to have to trek cross county to pick up a sick kid or attend a PTA event. Play dates are more complicated when your kid has friends all over the county (this is one thing I really disliked about private school as a kid and why I wanted my kids at a neighborhood school).
Stop making it the schools’ responsibility to retroactively address historical racism. Push for more affordable housing options during Plan Langston.
This assumes affordable housing must only be for families. Right now homeless individuals desperately need housing. The Foggy Bottom tent encampment was just removed at the Mayor’s orders. Senior citizens also need affordable options and not expensive, luxury accommodations like Sunrise and the Jefferson. Arlington should be building heavily subsidized affordable housing for all groups in all commercial corridors all over, and not a specific demographic in a specific neighborhood just to stick it to the wealthy folks.
That’s fine. We can’t force families to move into affordable housing in certain parts of the county. But we can make it available and hopefully see some more demographic diversity in the N over time. But bussing a bunch of kids in rush hour traffic instead of letting them go to school close to home with their friends is not the solution. No kid wants to spend 30-40 minutes on a bus each way.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
A) what a logistical nightmare with having kids change buses.
B) It is unreasonable to expect kids and families take on the brunt of fixing disparities by having longer commutes/potentially going to school farther from home and away from neighborhood friends. The underlying issue is about housing policy. Fix housing and messing with the school boundaries will be moot.
My kids go to a neighborhood school and their social circle of friends and sports teammates is made up of kids that live mostly within walking/biking distance of our home. Having a support system of families close by to rely on for carpools, emergency contacts, after school play dates, etc. is invaluable. And it’s not just NA families who benefit from this. Many families in SA do not want to have to trek cross county to pick up a sick kid or attend a PTA event. Play dates are more complicated when your kid has friends all over the county (this is one thing I really disliked about private school as a kid and why I wanted my kids at a neighborhood school).
Stop making it the schools’ responsibility to retroactively address historical racism. Push for more affordable housing options during Plan Langston.
This assumes affordable housing must only be for families. Right now homeless individuals desperately need housing. The Foggy Bottom tent encampment was just removed at the Mayor’s orders. Senior citizens also need affordable options and not expensive, luxury accommodations like Sunrise and the Jefferson. Arlington should be building heavily subsidized affordable housing for all groups in all commercial corridors all over, and not a specific demographic in a specific neighborhood just to stick it to the wealthy folks.
That’s fine. We can’t force families to move into affordable housing in certain parts of the county. But we can make it available and hopefully see some more demographic diversity in the N over time. But bussing a bunch of kids in rush hour traffic instead of letting them go to school close to home with their friends is not the solution. No kid wants to spend 30-40 minutes on a bus each way.
Millions of kids in America do this every day
Yes and it’s terrible for the environment and quality of life. We’ve finally accepted how terrible daily commuting is for adults and now the suggestion is to do this to kids? Many of whom are tween/teens already struggling to get enough sleep and homework time. Sorry, but I purposefully did not choose to live in some rural area where my kids have to ride a bus over some long distance to get an education. I chose a suburb with schools in close proximity to residential areas as did every other family in the county.
Arlington is not unique in this. I grew up in 2 different states besides Virginia and attended schools within a couple miles of my home.
Not to mention bussing has already been tried and failed on numerous occasions. No one of any race wants their kids shipped all around town. This is on the adults to fix, not the children.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
A) what a logistical nightmare with having kids change buses.
B) It is unreasonable to expect kids and families take on the brunt of fixing disparities by having longer commutes/potentially going to school farther from home and away from neighborhood friends. The underlying issue is about housing policy. Fix housing and messing with the school boundaries will be moot.
My kids go to a neighborhood school and their social circle of friends and sports teammates is made up of kids that live mostly within walking/biking distance of our home. Having a support system of families close by to rely on for carpools, emergency contacts, after school play dates, etc. is invaluable. And it’s not just NA families who benefit from this. Many families in SA do not want to have to trek cross county to pick up a sick kid or attend a PTA event. Play dates are more complicated when your kid has friends all over the county (this is one thing I really disliked about private school as a kid and why I wanted my kids at a neighborhood school).
Stop making it the schools’ responsibility to retroactively address historical racism. Push for more affordable housing options during Plan Langston.
This assumes affordable housing must only be for families. Right now homeless individuals desperately need housing. The Foggy Bottom tent encampment was just removed at the Mayor’s orders. Senior citizens also need affordable options and not expensive, luxury accommodations like Sunrise and the Jefferson. Arlington should be building heavily subsidized affordable housing for all groups in all commercial corridors all over, and not a specific demographic in a specific neighborhood just to stick it to the wealthy folks.
Anonymous wrote:As a minority of middle eastern origin I find it extremely offensive that schools such as Carlin Springs is considered more diverse than ATS, where my kids go. The only way Carlin Springs is more diverse than ATS is if you lump all non-white students together. It is extremely racist to believe that all non-white students are the same and that the only diversity that matters is white vs. non-white. Ethnically speaking, a white person is just as different from a person of Middle Eastern origin than a hispanic person is. Carlin Springs isn't diverse. It is 73% hispanic. This means that three quarters of the school is from one race/ethnicity. How on earth is that diverse? Arlington Traditional School is more equally divided between different races and 9% of the school is from multiple races. The Black population, 20%, is diverse in and of itself. We have Ethiopians, African Americans, Eritrians, and Nigerians, just to name a few. Same with the 27% of Asian students who come from all over the vast continent of Asia. We have students with origins from Azerbeijan, Mongolia, China, India, Pakistan, Kazakhestan. I mean the list goes on. 24 different languages are spoken at ATS. How many different languages are spoken in Carlin Springs? I am really sick and tired of this narrow definition of diversity. It is a racist definition given to us by white people who think that we are all the same. Disgusting.
Everything this person said. Plus 1000.
I also think there are white people in positions of power who claim this is "diversity" so that they can maintain the racist status quo.
This whole convo is racist, the people driving it are white people who couldn't afford N Arlington so their kids are in S Arlington schools with (gasp!) majority black/brown. They would feel a lot more comfortable if there were more white kids to keep their white kids company. So their solutionis to kill the option schools to get more of their white neighbors to stay in the neighborhood schools. That's all it is, they claim to be social justice warriors but it's racist and self interested. What really gets me is they attack others for their ethics.
The ethics of doing anything you can to buy a house in north Arlington specifically to avoid the south Arlington schools? Those ethics? The ones that aren't so obvious and can be shaded over with claims of "commute, walkability, didn't want a fixer-upper" etc? Those ethics?
SA resident here, and I think it’s ridiculous to say that NA residents bought their homes *specifically* to avoid SA schools. There are many things about NA neighborhoods that are appealing.
And it totally ignores the fact that many CHILDLESS couples buy homes in NA.
You, my friend, are reaching. And kinda dumb.
The price differences are massive, though--hundreds of thousands of dollars--for houses that are similar in size, age, lot, condition, etc--whether you are talking about old stock or brand new builds. The locations are not that different in terms of proximity to metro, highways, DC or Fairfax, etc. What is different? Neighborhood/school demographics.
The 1.3 mil Douglass Park house is relatively old. Here’s a pretty house in 22201 for quite a bit less within walking distance to the Apple Store. And it has nothing to do with school demographics.
Also, you have to factor in how densely populated the surrounding area is. Parks (and schools) located in areas with tons of high rises are going to offer a different experience than parks (and schools) where everyone is more spread out.
Sometimes it’s not the color of everyone’s skin, but sheer number of bodies.
Nothing like the Aurora Hills splash pad being like a most pit in the summer because it’s super crowded!
Huh? No. It’s the schools. That’s why realtors steer, that’s why real estate sites include school scores prominently, and it’s why agents are sure to talk about NORTH Arlington, as if it’s a separate place from the rest of Arlington. It is a separate place, by design.
I thought N Arlington was created back when it was mostly all farms. The post office wanted the county to come up with a street naming system, hence the N and the S. So it has nothing to do with “rich vs poor.”
I think other factors are at play that determine house prices: quality of the build, historic charm, tree canopy, Metro rail, cute shops and cafes (like in Westover), the reputation of the neighborhood, i.e., is it posh. None of those have to do with schools. Arlington Ridge is quite posh and along the southern edge of S Arlington.
Rt 50 is more of a psychological distractor. I personally would like Buttigieg to direct some of his freeway removal funds to eliminating Rt 50. It’s unnecessary and it divides neighborhoods.
What are you even talking about? Sure, being “posh” has nothing to do with poor people being kept out of that “posh” area. And when poor people are largely minority, again, by design, through a system of racist housing and bank lending policies, it’s really about tree canopy. WTF
The SFH neighborhoods in Arlington, N and S, if you get off the main roads, are really lovely. They have comparable parks and trees, too. It’s the higher density areas, more common in S, that have lower tree canopy. But if you compare apples to apples where house age, size, repair, etc. are similar, there’s still a premium for houses in areas with “good schools.” So, maybe people are trying to be in leafier “posher” areas for that, but it’s all part of the same system. It was designed and it operates the way it was intended.
The comment was in response to N Arlington being “a separate place by design” as claimed by the previous poster, which is not true.
I personally don’t see how schools affect housing prices in such a small county where people move for its charming, family-friendly neighborhoods and convenience. But families here do love their walkable neighborhood schools. I’m no realtor so I’ll give you some benefit of the doubt regarding the schools’ affect on home prices in Arlington.
Since there are neighborhood transfers and option programs through high school, APS students have multiple pathways. Kind of like DC with all its top-notch charter schools where I don’t think a house in the J-R/Wilson pyramid sells at a premium over a large rowhouse on Capitol Hill because of the assigned schools.
WTF--north Arlington is absolutely a separate place by design. THE SCHOOLS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WERE LEGALLY SEGREGATED. Halls Hill and Nauck/Green Valley were the only places where black people could own property. Lots in those neighborhood are very small because they have been subdivided many times to the minimum lot size because it was the only way black people could buy. The schools serving those neighborhoods (Drew, Hoffman-Boston, Gunston) were the original segregated schools and until recently were still majority black.
Similarly, the neighborhoods closer to the Pentagon--along Columbia Pike, on the south side of Route 50, Fairlington, etc.--were all built as apartments in the 1930s and 1940s as high density housing for the war effort and then for the returning soldiers/early Boomer generation. That is all older/affordable condos (not usually families) or low-income rentals now (for low-income families) and is not going to change. The zoning decisions for the high-density Metro corridors was made in the 1970s and at that time explicit decisions were made about what would be high-density, medium-density, and low-density to preserve SFH neighborhoods just a few blocks from the Metro (see--Lyon Park, Lyon Village, Bluemont, Westover, etc.) around the orange line versus the decisions made about the neighborhoods around the Yellow/Blue line and Crystal City/Pentagon City.
STFU about the differences in north Arlington/south Arlington not being by design. As people keep saying, it is the continuing effect of racist and segregationist housing, school, and zoning policies. The school policies could be undone by making the three high schools, at least, all countywide through some system, and maybe the five middle schools, and by greatly expanding the elementary boundaries to have four or five grouped choice zones with a traditional/Montessori/immersion/science focus/arts focus/outdoor focus cluster in each quaarant of the county. Or some other model that would loosen the tight hold that the traditional boundaries have on APS.
Oooo! Dangerous territory here. This is what ended Tara Nattrass' relationship with APS!
If you put those options in each quadrant you’ll have waaaay less diversity. For example, all the white/higher income N Arlington kids who go to Gunston & Wakefield for immersion will just go to the immersion school closer to home. Without cross county movement to option programs, segregation is much more pronounced.
Transportation also becomes a major problem. APS struggles with transportation now even when trying to keep kids walkable. I don't know how they'd manage any option where they'd have to move more kids.
I actually think it would be easier. Have a hub and spoke transportation model. One bus picks up all the kids in a neighborhood, brings them to a central bus depot and then buses go from there to all the choice programs.
A) what a logistical nightmare with having kids change buses.
B) It is unreasonable to expect kids and families take on the brunt of fixing disparities by having longer commutes/potentially going to school farther from home and away from neighborhood friends. The underlying issue is about housing policy. Fix housing and messing with the school boundaries will be moot.
My kids go to a neighborhood school and their social circle of friends and sports teammates is made up of kids that live mostly within walking/biking distance of our home. Having a support system of families close by to rely on for carpools, emergency contacts, after school play dates, etc. is invaluable. And it’s not just NA families who benefit from this. Many families in SA do not want to have to trek cross county to pick up a sick kid or attend a PTA event. Play dates are more complicated when your kid has friends all over the county (this is one thing I really disliked about private school as a kid and why I wanted my kids at a neighborhood school).
Stop making it the schools’ responsibility to retroactively address historical racism. Push for more affordable housing options during Plan Langston.
This assumes affordable housing must only be for families. Right now homeless individuals desperately need housing. The Foggy Bottom tent encampment was just removed at the Mayor’s orders. Senior citizens also need affordable options and not expensive, luxury accommodations like Sunrise and the Jefferson. Arlington should be building heavily subsidized affordable housing for all groups in all commercial corridors all over, and not a specific demographic in a specific neighborhood just to stick it to the wealthy folks.
Let’s just turn into San Francisco.
No one is advocating for the Tenderloin and single room occupancy hotels.
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