Drag Queen Story Hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

NP. "women who dress this way" is a dog whistle. You're actually categorizing women by their outfits instead of viewing them as real people.

The drag queen reading the book a few pages back was wearing a dress and a sweater. I'm not sure I would describe her costume as overly sexual.

Any male who wears fake breasts is by definition appropriating female physical secondary sexual characteristics. You may not describe her costume as overtly sexual but it is.

You mean gendered? Sure.

Sexual as in sexy? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

NP. "women who dress this way" is a dog whistle. You're actually categorizing women by their outfits instead of viewing them as real people.

The drag queen reading the book a few pages back was wearing a dress and a sweater. I'm not sure I would describe her costume as overly sexual.

Any male who wears fake breasts is by definition appropriating female physical secondary sexual characteristics. You may not describe her costume as overtly sexual but it is.

You mean gendered? Sure.

Sexual as in sexy? No.

This exactly. They're conflating sex, gender, and sexuality. The attacks on drag are about sexualizing everything. That drag queen has clearly not sexualized anything. She has appropriated the female form with prosthetics which is the female sex as well as the gender woman. But she isn't sexualizing her costume which seems to be what people are concerned about. Or so they say at least. I'm pretty sure that picture was taken in Maryland the Olney library. In which case, people are trying to decide what Maryland law should be based on their morals as well as what parents should be allowed to do with their kids (take them to DQSH). At the end of the day, I honestly think a lot of these people would be happier in Florida or Texas or some Kansas where the rest of the population largely agrees with their values. That's not the case in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

NP. "women who dress this way" is a dog whistle. You're actually categorizing women by their outfits instead of viewing them as real people.

The drag queen reading the book a few pages back was wearing a dress and a sweater. I'm not sure I would describe her costume as overly sexual.

Any male who wears fake breasts is by definition appropriating female physical secondary sexual characteristics. You may not describe her costume as overtly sexual but it is.

You mean gendered? Sure.

Sexual as in sexy? No.

This exactly. They're conflating sex, gender, and sexuality. The attacks on drag are about sexualizing everything. That drag queen has clearly not sexualized anything. She has appropriated the female form with prosthetics which is the female sex as well as the gender woman. But she isn't sexualizing her costume which seems to be what people are concerned about. Or so they say at least. I'm pretty sure that picture was taken in Maryland the Olney library. In which case, people are trying to decide what Maryland law should be based on their morals as well as what parents should be allowed to do with their kids (take them to DQSH). At the end of the day, I honestly think a lot of these people would be happier in Florida or Texas or some Kansas where the rest of the population largely agrees with their values. That's not the case in Maryland.

Reading this thread, I think there are two separate but related concerns: whether drag is sexualized such that it is inappropriate for children, and whether drag is sexist minstrelry that promotes degrading stereotypes of women and is entertainment by men that capitalizes on a history of men’s oppression of women.

These are not the same issues, though they are related, and in this thread different posters have talked about both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

NP. "women who dress this way" is a dog whistle. You're actually categorizing women by their outfits instead of viewing them as real people.

The drag queen reading the book a few pages back was wearing a dress and a sweater. I'm not sure I would describe her costume as overly sexual.

Any male who wears fake breasts is by definition appropriating female physical secondary sexual characteristics. You may not describe her costume as overtly sexual but it is.

You mean gendered? Sure.

Sexual as in sexy? No.

This exactly. They're conflating sex, gender, and sexuality. The attacks on drag are about sexualizing everything. That drag queen has clearly not sexualized anything. She has appropriated the female form with prosthetics which is the female sex as well as the gender woman. But she isn't sexualizing her costume which seems to be what people are concerned about. Or so they say at least. I'm pretty sure that picture was taken in Maryland the Olney library. In which case, people are trying to decide what Maryland law should be based on their morals as well as what parents should be allowed to do with their kids (take them to DQSH). At the end of the day, I honestly think a lot of these people would be happier in Florida or Texas or some Kansas where the rest of the population largely agrees with their values. That's not the case in Maryland.

Except there are examples of DQSH that have been overtly sexualized. Obviously not the majority of DQSH, but the bad incidents get lots of coverage. Some people are reacting to clips they've seen of a DQ twerking in front of kids at a library, or the more highly publicized incident of a DQ flashing his genitals under his skirt while reading to the kids. There are other examples, but there seems to be no litmus test for what is and isn't age appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

NP. "women who dress this way" is a dog whistle. You're actually categorizing women by their outfits instead of viewing them as real people.

The drag queen reading the book a few pages back was wearing a dress and a sweater. I'm not sure I would describe her costume as overly sexual.

Any male who wears fake breasts is by definition appropriating female physical secondary sexual characteristics. You may not describe her costume as overtly sexual but it is.

You mean gendered? Sure.

Sexual as in sexy? No.

This exactly. They're conflating sex, gender, and sexuality. The attacks on drag are about sexualizing everything. That drag queen has clearly not sexualized anything. She has appropriated the female form with prosthetics which is the female sex as well as the gender woman. But she isn't sexualizing her costume which seems to be what people are concerned about. Or so they say at least. I'm pretty sure that picture was taken in Maryland the Olney library. In which case, people are trying to decide what Maryland law should be based on their morals as well as what parents should be allowed to do with their kids (take them to DQSH). At the end of the day, I honestly think a lot of these people would be happier in Florida or Texas or some Kansas where the rest of the population largely agrees with their values. That's not the case in Maryland.

Reading this thread, I think there are two separate but related concerns: whether drag is sexualized such that it is inappropriate for children, and whether drag is sexist minstrelry that promotes degrading stereotypes of women and is entertainment by men that capitalizes on a history of men’s oppression of women.

These are not the same issues, though they are related, and in this thread different posters have talked about both.

I think this is a good assessment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

NP. "women who dress this way" is a dog whistle. You're actually categorizing women by their outfits instead of viewing them as real people.

The drag queen reading the book a few pages back was wearing a dress and a sweater. I'm not sure I would describe her costume as overly sexual.

Any male who wears fake breasts is by definition appropriating female physical secondary sexual characteristics. You may not describe her costume as overtly sexual but it is.

You mean gendered? Sure.

Sexual as in sexy? No.

This exactly. They're conflating sex, gender, and sexuality. The attacks on drag are about sexualizing everything. That drag queen has clearly not sexualized anything. She has appropriated the female form with prosthetics which is the female sex as well as the gender woman. But she isn't sexualizing her costume which seems to be what people are concerned about. Or so they say at least. I'm pretty sure that picture was taken in Maryland the Olney library. In which case, people are trying to decide what Maryland law should be based on their morals as well as what parents should be allowed to do with their kids (take them to DQSH). At the end of the day, I honestly think a lot of these people would be happier in Florida or Texas or some Kansas where the rest of the population largely agrees with their values. That's not the case in Maryland.

Except there are examples of DQSH that have been overtly sexualized. Obviously not the majority of DQSH, but the bad incidents get lots of coverage. Some people are reacting to clips they've seen of a DQ twerking in front of kids at a library, or the more highly publicized incident of a DQ flashing his genitals under his skirt while reading to the kids. There are other examples, but there seems to be no litmus test for what is and isn't age appropriate.

I am firmly against taking kids to DQSH and consider drag to be sexist minstrelry, but please do not spread incorrect information. The incident regarding the “flasher” did not involve showing genitals. It did involve a man wearing a very short skirt with tights on, sitting on a chair, reading to kids who were eye level to his knees. The tights fully covered his genitals, though. It is important to note that the drag queen was not arrested or charged with anything, which he would have been if there had been an exposure.

I think the choice of outfit was highly inappropriate but would have been for both men and women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

The examples you give are biological women. Would you say this to all the white performers in Black face?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

The examples you give are biological women. Would you say this to all the white performers in Black face?

I think the position of the drag proponents on this thread is that it is wholly different. I’m not exactly sure how — the reasoning seems tortured to me — but that seems to be the position.

[Anonymous]

Is there just one anti-drag loon posting on here, or are there several?

[Anonymous]

These things make the news everywhere, but I have yet to see one anywhere. I live in close in NOVA. Is this a DC only thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These things make the news everywhere, but I have yet to see one anywhere. I live in close in NOVA. Is this a DC only thing?

There was just recently one at the Olney library.

Montgomery County loves to host these Drag Queen Story Hours. There was one in Silver Spring also. They do them at Brookside Gardens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there just one anti-drag loon posting on here, or are there several?

There are none.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it is ok for men to dress up as exaggerated stereotypes of women then can white people (minus black face) dress in dreds, gold chains and slouchy clothes and mimic an AAVE dialect in an attempt to 'celebrate' black stereotypes?

Now hold up. First off, drag isn't naturally a an exaggerated stereotype, since there are plenty of real women who dress similarly. Further, tt's more akin to burlesque and it's a performance. As for the second part, tell me how that would play in a performance in a bar, club, or cabaret? What kind of show would that be?

Sasha Baren Cohen did something similar as Ali G, a British rap style dude, and it was okay, because it was a performance with a purpose and was fun.

Trying to equate minstrel shows with drag continuously is not a good argument, because your first premise would have to be that real women who dress like drag queens are offensive to all women.
See:

Women who dress over the top are offensive
Drag queens dress as over the top women.
Therefore, drag queens are offensive.

That's the only way to square that. Is this what you are arguing, or are you trying to pretend that there aren't woman who act and dress just like drag queens, which are whom they are performing as?

Thanks for that ridiculous straw man. The offensiveness is not because women don't like women who dress sexy. Drag is a performance that appropriates female sexuality. The offensiveness of drag is in its appropriation and performative reinterpretation (by males) of what it is to be female.

By this standard, all performance and acting is offensive.

How so?

All acting is a performative reinterpretation

Not all acting is appropriation that creates a caricature of a traditionally marginalized and oppressed group, representing that group via stereotypes that have been used to perpetuate their oppression.

+1

The “I guess NOBODY CAN ACT NOW” temper tantrum is just so tiresome.

Again then, women who dress this way, say Dolly Parton or Madonna or hell, Carmen Miranda--are you arguing that they are (were) helping to continue the oppression of women? They should just disappear then?

NP. "women who dress this way" is a dog whistle. You're actually categorizing women by their outfits instead of viewing them as real people.

The drag queen reading the book a few pages back was wearing a dress and a sweater. I'm not sure I would describe her costume as overly sexual.

Any male who wears fake breasts is by definition appropriating female physical secondary sexual characteristics. You may not describe her costume as overtly sexual but it is.

You mean gendered? Sure.

Sexual as in sexy? No.

This exactly. They're conflating sex, gender, and sexuality. The attacks on drag are about sexualizing everything. That drag queen has clearly not sexualized anything. She has appropriated the female form with prosthetics which is the female sex as well as the gender woman. But she isn't sexualizing her costume which seems to be what people are concerned about. Or so they say at least. I'm pretty sure that picture was taken in Maryland the Olney library. In which case, people are trying to decide what Maryland law should be based on their morals as well as what parents should be allowed to do with their kids (take them to DQSH). At the end of the day, I honestly think a lot of these people would be happier in Florida or Texas or some Kansas where the rest of the population largely agrees with their values. That's not the case in Maryland.

Except there are examples of DQSH that have been overtly sexualized. Obviously not the majority of DQSH, but the bad incidents get lots of coverage. Some people are reacting to clips they've seen of a DQ twerking in front of kids at a library, or the more highly publicized incident of a DQ flashing his genitals under his skirt while reading to the kids. There are other examples, but there seems to be no litmus test for what is and isn't age appropriate.

I am firmly against taking kids to DQSH and consider drag to be sexist minstrelry, but please do not spread incorrect information. The incident regarding the “flasher” did not involve showing genitals. It did involve a man wearing a very short skirt with tights on, sitting on a chair, reading to kids who were eye level to his knees. The tights fully covered his genitals, though. It is important to note that the drag queen was not arrested or charged with anything, which he would have been if there had been an exposure.

I think the choice of outfit was highly inappropriate but would have been for both men and women.

What’s wrong with them dressing like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

This wig is amazing. I love it so much.

omg she is fabulous, that's amazing

And what would you say to an actual older woman who showed up to kids story hour dressed like that, with that hair and makeup? Still just fine? You’d happily hand your kids to her?

I would love to have Dolly Parton come read to kids at our library!

She’s wonderful.

Dolly Parton is a major supporter of literacy and does read to children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These things make the news everywhere, but I have yet to see one anywhere. I live in close in NOVA. Is this a DC only thing?

There was just recently one at the Olney library.

Montgomery County loves to host these Drag Queen Story Hours. There was one in Silver Spring also. They do them at Brookside Gardens.

MoCo is never going to ban drag. The places doing that are deep red. MoCo is 80% democrats.