DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think that HS soccer offers more leadership opportunities than club? I can understand it iif you are a role player for your club team and a star and captain on the HS team. But if you a captain and impact player on your club team, it seems you'd get the same leadership opportunities.

That's exactly it. From the one year my DD played HS, the star player on most HS teams was just a role player on a good to very good club team. So instead of just being lost in the crowd, now that player has other players and even coaches depending on her.

And on the few teams where the star player on the HS team was already a top player on the club team, they usually ended up being all-region or better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think that HS soccer offers more leadership opportunities than club? I can understand it iif you are a role player for your club team and a star and captain on the HS team. But if you a captain and impact player on your club team, it seems you'd get the same leadership opportunities.

Aren't there better leadership opportunities in HS than soccer captain? Student Council etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:high school soccer offers the better social aspect and the chance to wear your school's name. 90% of the people out there have no idea what Bethesda Soccer or Mclean Soccer when they see a kid wearing that name.

Most of the kids who play club and high school are not playing beyond their senior year of high school. Yes, including your kids, some will, some will stop after a year, some will play all 4 years but then what?

you never hear people talking about their glory days of club sports, always high school.

I'm not disputing that HS sports and the social aspects are meaningful for most kids. I know a number of boys who have returned to HS after getting cut from, or having a frustrating experience on, their DA team, and they are all really happy playing HS. I just wasn't sure what superior leadership opportunities it would provide for the average HS player.

[Anonymous]

if college players are fighting for playing time, why would they want to move out of the potentially highest environment to HS? I’d think you would want to roll into camp in august after a year of highest level, not something else.

It's not like they are not playing club at all if they joined an ECNL club. They would have a fairly intense fall club schedule, a lighter training schedule during HS spring season, and a handful of Spring tournaments/showcases. For now, at the older age groups, there isn't much talent dropoff in ECNL vs DA that it is hurting their continued development. Clearly they think there is more to gain as a person than there is to lose as a soccer player. Having the choice is a good thing IMO.

------------------------------------

You obviously will not hear it from club coaches, because it is bad for business, but once a college choice is made a kid would be far better off spending their high school senior year focusing on: (1) game-ready fitness and learning how to improve/maintain their personal overall nutrition and health (not a simple thing to do in college even with trainers/health specialists and a training table); (2) working to improve specific areas of weakness in their individual skill set; and (3) getting ready academically to make things easier if possible when they get to college. 75% or so of all skill improvement is done outside of large group practices and games anyway. Does a kid still need to play games and attend practices? YES absolutely. Do you need to travel all over the country to play those games? NO. Save the $$ - believe me you will still be spending it.

I would say for sure that my daughter and her friends, and probably most every freshman, did not come into college anywhere near fit enough. For a parent that can be hard to imagine, but as your kid will find out, it is true. If she does not already have it, I would encourage you to have your daughter (not you) ask the asst. coach who deals with the incoming freshman to give her what they did last year for fitness training. (Too late for this year's incoming freshman I'm afraid). Being actually fit as opposed to be high school fit is important. Some kids do not get that, and those kids will likely be gone by the end of their Sophomore year. Knowing how to eat correctly based on what is available in the dorm/training table is also important. In season it is less of a problem, but off-season it can be a real issue. Knowing how to deal with minor injuries/strains so they do not become big injuries is also important. You can't ignore a sore/strained muscles. Trainers are not the enemy and being shy around the trainers is a bad idea. Sore muscles and strains are all things they deal with regularly.

Along the same lines, kids going to college need to be ready and able to deal with not playing. Pretty much every player on a college team was a star player in club and high school. And, chances are the coach recruited at least one other player for the position(s) he sees your kid potentially playing. The coaches know that a good many players will quit, or get injured to the point where they are done playing, and they plan for that. Don't believe me? Go to the website for your kid's future college team. (Likely not updated yet for this year, but that's okay.) Now click on the link to the team from 4 years ago and look at the roster. How many of those freshman were seniors this past year? If it is 50% that would be great. More likely it is around 25% to 33%. So -- if your kid is 1 of 6 or 7 incoming freshman; chances are 50/50 or less that she will still be on the team her senior year.

Finally -- kids need to learn quickly how to deal with the added pressures of being an athlete and going to school.

1. An easier and lighter schedule during the first Fall season is a good idea. This is an area where parents can actually be involved and help. Planning out freshman year academics with her counselor is important. Athletes do get preferences in scheduling. Take advantage of that. What days are mid-week games? Coordinate as much as possible so that few classes are missed. What profs. work better with the athletic dept.? Know what the off-season practice/fitness schedules look like (again the asst. coach for incoming freshman will know that at least for past years - and chances are it will not change much.) What harder classes can be taken in the Winter/Spring term?

2. A couple of friends from the incoming freshman team would be a good thing. If your kid can get a list and make some contacts this year it wouldn't hurt. The upperclassmen kids will see the freshman as competitors for playing time/positions, and while they won't be openly hostile, they also are likely not to be very friendly. Your kid needs to understand that while there is "no I in team" there are also two "I"s in "playing time" Everyone wants playing time. Freshman are unknowns to upperclassmen, except that they are competitors for playing time. If your kid is thinking -- "I might get to start at position X", that may be true. But, they need to know that there are at least 2 other players who are thinking the same thing. The coaches want those 2-3 players thinking that as it will make for good competition, but your kid cannot be surprised if the coach decides to give the position to the older player even if your kid thinks they are better.

3. Be ready and willing to play any position. That was a big problem for my kid who was basically a defender in club ball since u12. She had to learn on the fly. But, you go where the openings are, and get whatever playing time you can get. It sucks to sit on the bench. Kids who sit the bench quit. My kid had a decent freshman year playing ad hoc forward and mid positions in most games. She had a bad sophomore year (only playing in about 10 games). But, she became the starting defensive center-mid early on in her Jr. year because the kid in the position sprained an ankle in an early game, and my kid did well enough filling in that she kept the starting spot from that point on and continuing through her senior year. Kids never want to see anyone get hurt, but the reality is that a kid on the bench wants to play and an injury opens up the opportunity. (Yes, it's more than a little ghoulish.)

4. Be ready for a very different atmosphere. A good many of the upperclassmen don't really care about getting to know the freshman - particularly at the beginning of the year when competition for positions and playing time is peaked. The head coach who was great during recruiting now may will not be very nice at all, and probably does a lot of yelling in practices. Ask yourself; What will your kid do when the coach stops practice to yell at your kid for screwing something up? It can be a very different experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:high school soccer offers the better social aspect and the chance to wear your school's name. 90% of the people out there have no idea what Bethesda Soccer or Mclean Soccer when they see a kid wearing that name.

Most of the kids who play club and high school are not playing beyond their senior year of high school. Yes, including your kids, some will, some will stop after a year, some will play all 4 years but then what?

you never hear people talking about their glory days of club sports, always high school.

I'm not disputing that HS sports and the social aspects are meaningful for most kids. I know a number of boys who have returned to HS after getting cut from, or having a frustrating experience on, their DA team, and they are all really happy playing HS. I just wasn't sure what superior leadership opportunities it would provide for the average HS player.

Never been a captain huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:high school soccer offers the better social aspect and the chance to wear your school's name. 90% of the people out there have no idea what Bethesda Soccer or Mclean Soccer when they see a kid wearing that name.

Most of the kids who play club and high school are not playing beyond their senior year of high school. Yes, including your kids, some will, some will stop after a year, some will play all 4 years but then what?

you never hear people talking about their glory days of club sports, always high school.

I'm not disputing that HS sports and the social aspects are meaningful for most kids. I know a number of boys who have returned to HS after getting cut from, or having a frustrating experience on, their DA team, and they are all really happy playing HS. I just wasn't sure what superior leadership opportunities it would provide for the average HS player.

Never been a captain huh?

Ok, so what then is the benefit if you are not team captain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:high school soccer offers the better social aspect and the chance to wear your school's name. 90% of the people out there have no idea what Bethesda Soccer or Mclean Soccer when they see a kid wearing that name.

Most of the kids who play club and high school are not playing beyond their senior year of high school. Yes, including your kids, some will, some will stop after a year, some will play all 4 years but then what?

you never hear people talking about their glory days of club sports, always high school.

I'm not disputing that HS sports and the social aspects are meaningful for most kids. I know a number of boys who have returned to HS after getting cut from, or having a frustrating experience on, their DA team, and they are all really happy playing HS. I just wasn't sure what superior leadership opportunities it would provide for the average HS player.

Never been a captain huh?

Nope. Nor ever played HS sports. That's why I'm asking the question. I have a DA player who has zero desire to play HS, but a couple younger kids who might take a different path, so I'm curious. As I stated above, it's obvious that there are leadership benefits if you are a star or captain on the HS team, but what about the rest of the kids on the team?

Now, did you have anything helpful to add to the discussion?

[Anonymous]

Nope. Nor ever played HS sports. That's why I'm asking the question. I have a DA player who has zero desire to play HS, but a couple younger kids who might take a different path, so I'm curious. As I stated above, it's obvious that there are leadership benefits if you are a star or captain on the HS team, but what about the rest of the kids on the team?

Now, did you have anything helpful to add to the discussion?

nothing in the thread is helpful except a bunch of parents who have kids they are pushing to be something they want them to be.

all the teams i have been on and my kids have been on, never once was the best player the captain. it is always the hardest working kid, the most positive kid, the most humble kid. leadership doesn't come with talent and talent doesn't come with leadership. the leadership qualities a captain should have are presentation skills, inter personable skills, negotiation skills, empathy, character, morals and academics.

Different coaches allow the captains different opportunists. a captain we had once decided our uniforms, pre- game meals, travels arrangements, team building events and awards. Some were just the girl who did the coin toss.

[Anonymous]

If the captain is the only one showing leadership qualities on the field, then the team is probably not that good. HS soccer can bring camaraderie that is hard to replicate elsewhere. As OP posted though, it’s a long-ball wasteland and not a medium where you can expect to develop by leaps and bounds. There’s some exceptions. For example, I followed Oakton closely last season, and their coach has some fairly progressive methods and style of play considering it’s HS ball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Once you have the college spot/maybe scholarship in hand, you can play for another high-level team. If you are playing DA, you commit early your junior year under the new NCAA rules, and you live in VA, you can move to an ECNL team that's closer to home to keep up your training level, AND play two spring seasons for your high school team before going to college. If you stay in DA, no high school. Location plus high school could easily explain Spirit DA players moving to BRYC ECNL.

I have to admit: for the serious player, I will never ever understand this high school ball obsession. It's such low quality soccer.

I just figured out by the exact wording who it is that posted this

Lmao!! John, is that you???

Seriously, you people Crack me up!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people think that HS soccer offers more leadership opportunities than club? I can understand it iif you are a role player for your club team and a star and captain on the HS team. But if you a captain and impact player on your club team, it seems you'd get the same leadership opportunities.

Aren't there better leadership opportunities in HS than soccer captain? Student Council etc...

+1

[Anonymous]

Let’s be real people play high school for the camaraderie and the social aspect of it. And that’s okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
if college players are fighting for playing time, why would they want to move out of the potentially highest environment to HS? I’d think you would want to roll into camp in august after a year of highest level, not something else.

It's not like they are not playing club at all if they joined an ECNL club. They would have a fairly intense fall club schedule, a lighter training schedule during HS spring season, and a handful of Spring tournaments/showcases. For now, at the older age groups, there isn't much talent dropoff in ECNL vs DA that it is hurting their continued development. Clearly they think there is more to gain as a person than there is to lose as a soccer player. Having the choice is a good thing IMO.

------------------------------------

You obviously will not hear it from club coaches, because it is bad for business, but once a college choice is made a kid would be far better off spending their high school senior year focusing on: (1) game-ready fitness and learning how to improve/maintain their personal overall nutrition and health (not a simple thing to do in college even with trainers/health specialists and a training table); (2) working to improve specific areas of weakness in their individual skill set; and (3) getting ready academically to make things easier if possible when they get to college. 75% or so of all skill improvement is done outside of large group practices and games anyway. Does a kid still need to play games and attend practices? YES absolutely. Do you need to travel all over the country to play those games? NO. Save the $$ - believe me you will still be spending it.

I would say for sure that my daughter and her friends, and probably most every freshman, did not come into college anywhere near fit enough. For a parent that can be hard to imagine, but as your kid will find out, it is true. If she does not already have it, I would encourage you to have your daughter (not you) ask the asst. coach who deals with the incoming freshman to give her what they did last year for fitness training. (Too late for this year's incoming freshman I'm afraid). Being actually fit as opposed to be high school fit is important. Some kids do not get that, and those kids will likely be gone by the end of their Sophomore year. Knowing how to eat correctly based on what is available in the dorm/training table is also important. In season it is less of a problem, but off-season it can be a real issue. Knowing how to deal with minor injuries/strains so they do not become big injuries is also important. You can't ignore a sore/strained muscles. Trainers are not the enemy and being shy around the trainers is a bad idea. Sore muscles and strains are all things they deal with regularly.

Along the same lines, kids going to college need to be ready and able to deal with not playing. Pretty much every player on a college team was a star player in club and high school. And, chances are the coach recruited at least one other player for the position(s) he sees your kid potentially playing. The coaches know that a good many players will quit, or get injured to the point where they are done playing, and they plan for that. Don't believe me? Go to the website for your kid's future college team. (Likely not updated yet for this year, but that's okay.) Now click on the link to the team from 4 years ago and look at the roster. How many of those freshman were seniors this past year? If it is 50% that would be great. More likely it is around 25% to 33%. So -- if your kid is 1 of 6 or 7 incoming freshman; chances are 50/50 or less that she will still be on the team her senior year.

Finally -- kids need to learn quickly how to deal with the added pressures of being an athlete and going to school.

1. An easier and lighter schedule during the first Fall season is a good idea. This is an area where parents can actually be involved and help. Planning out freshman year academics with her counselor is important. Athletes do get preferences in scheduling. Take advantage of that. What days are mid-week games? Coordinate as much as possible so that few classes are missed. What profs. work better with the athletic dept.? Know what the off-season practice/fitness schedules look like (again the asst. coach for incoming freshman will know that at least for past years - and chances are it will not change much.) What harder classes can be taken in the Winter/Spring term?

2. A couple of friends from the incoming freshman team would be a good thing. If your kid can get a list and make some contacts this year it wouldn't hurt. The upperclassmen kids will see the freshman as competitors for playing time/positions, and while they won't be openly hostile, they also are likely not to be very friendly. Your kid needs to understand that while there is "no I in team" there are also two "I"s in "playing time" Everyone wants playing time. Freshman are unknowns to upperclassmen, except that they are competitors for playing time. If your kid is thinking -- "I might get to start at position X", that may be true. But, they need to know that there are at least 2 other players who are thinking the same thing. The coaches want those 2-3 players thinking that as it will make for good competition, but your kid cannot be surprised if the coach decides to give the position to the older player even if your kid thinks they are better.

3. Be ready and willing to play any position. That was a big problem for my kid who was basically a defender in club ball since u12. She had to learn on the fly. But, you go where the openings are, and get whatever playing time you can get. It sucks to sit on the bench. Kids who sit the bench quit. My kid had a decent freshman year playing ad hoc forward and mid positions in most games. She had a bad sophomore year (only playing in about 10 games). But, she became the starting defensive center-mid early on in her Jr. year because the kid in the position sprained an ankle in an early game, and my kid did well enough filling in that she kept the starting spot from that point on and continuing through her senior year. Kids never want to see anyone get hurt, but the reality is that a kid on the bench wants to play and an injury opens up the opportunity. (Yes, it's more than a little ghoulish.)

4. Be ready for a very different atmosphere. A good many of the upperclassmen don't really care about getting to know the freshman - particularly at the beginning of the year when competition for positions and playing time is peaked. The head coach who was great during recruiting now may will not be very nice at all, and probably does a lot of yelling in practices. Ask yourself; What will your kid do when the coach stops practice to yell at your kid for screwing something up? It can be a very different experience.

You put a lot of time into your message. Thank you for that. It gives a lot of food for thought. What level did your DD play at? If you don't mind sharing, what college/university?

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

At least for now, in the DMV there is no talent dropoff from the DA to the ECNL teams in the HS age groups. If anything, ECNL is still more talented. At U18/19, McLean and FCV are clearly the top two teams, with the other teams being close together but well back. Rumor is FCV is picking up another top player from Spirit.

At U17, McLean then BRYC will be the top two teams (b/c FCV moved their top 02s to the 00/01 team, and Spirit lost their best 02s).

At U16, BRYC will probably be the best but I'm waiting to see the final rosters for that age group.

As others have said, it's at the younger age groups that we'll start to see the transition of talent from ECNL to DA.

I can confirm that one of the best Spirit players has moved to FCV. Not the gk talked about earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At least for now, in the DMV there is no talent dropoff from the DA to the ECNL teams in the HS age groups. If anything, ECNL is still more talented. At U18/19, McLean and FCV are clearly the top two teams, with the other teams being close together but well back. Rumor is FCV is picking up another top player from Spirit.

At U17, McLean then BRYC will be the top two teams (b/c FCV moved their top 02s to the 00/01 team, and Spirit lost their best 02s).

At U16, BRYC will probably be the best but I'm waiting to see the final rosters for that age group.

As others have said, it's at the younger age groups that we'll start to see the transition of talent from ECNL to DA.

I can confirm that one of the best Spirit players has moved to FCV. Not the gk talked about earlier.

I can confirm that nobody cares. The people actually on the teams know this already and nobody else not on the teams is particularly interested.