DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Who said Girls DA teams do not play ECNL teams?

here we go:
http://dallascup.demosphere.com/teams/2018/accepted88058564.html

even a new U16 DA Pilot team listed.

[Anonymous]

I know parents on FCV and Spirit VA and my understanding is that Spirit is much more likely to give subs significant playing time, even if it might cost them the lead, or the tie, they had before the subs came in, whereas FCV is much more about securing the win. You can decide which is a better fit for you and your kid, but in terms of development of all the players, Spirit is better.

I do not see why people continue to think that Spirit will eventually be funding some of the costs of the DA. First, the DA supplements the pro team, not the other way around. Part of the reason Spirit is more than FCV and VDA is because each Spirit player has to pay for season tickets as part of their DA fee. To put that in perspective, average attendance at a Spirit game was 3500 people. ~20 DA players per team times 8 teams (VA and MD) means that the DA probably contributes at least 3 to 4% of the team's ticket sales. Also, the league is not making that much money; one NWSL team has already shut down. What makes you think that Spirit has enough money to partially fund two DA teams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who said Girls DA teams do not play ECNL teams?

here we go:
http://dallascup.demosphere.com/teams/2018/accepted88058564.html

even a new U16 DA Pilot team listed.

If you would like a sense of the future elite girls are facing as they leave Zone 1's U9 - U12 in the DMV, read the North Texas Soccer Forums and get up to speed in the ECNL and DA discussions on the Frontier Division that is in the middle of its inaugural U13 Pilot. Makes all these posts on DCUM civilized by comparison.

The DMV gets it own U13 Pilot this year, and maybe U16 Pilot down the line. The options in the DMV are overwhelming and not something you just ignore. U13 is a fork in the road, so do your darn' homework, but realize these questions will linger long into the 2017-18 seasonal year.

US Soccer playing favorites in TX and VA/MD/PA/NJ?

U13 and U16 Pilots = "DA2"?

US Soccer turning the screws on ECNL markets that are on life-support?

U13 USSDA full-sided training an impossible notion for 12-13 year old MS girls?

Money grab?

Confused parents and self-interest?ed clubs TDs and DOCs scare tactics?

A lot of noise around to sift through beginning now and not when ECNL tryout dates get posted. New DA announcements should be out soon which should help.

Good luck to all and thanks for all the helpful posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were in ECNL last year, and DA this year, and the travel has been similar in frequency, distance, and expense.

How would you compare the expected total costs for your 2017-18 season, versus last year in your 2016-17 season for ECNL? I presume you were with FCV for both. Ballpark your total financial hits.

The coaching is the same, the travel is pretty much identical, one can conclude that the costs are pretty much the same between ECNL and DA. In time, Spirit could be fully or partially funded whereas FCV cannot.

I would agree with this in terms of travel/expense, but I don't think Spirit will be funded by the pro club. I kinda think it's the other way around...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have the feeling the gap between girls DA & ECNL clubs in this area is going to open and up and widen pretty quick. I just don't see how ECNL clubs can realistically compete for the top players. DA seems like clearly the better option.

In addition to all the other reasons that are often mentioned, just look at the schedules.

Here's McLean's ENCL 04s: http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/mid-atlantic-schedule-2017-18/

Total of 14 games during the whole year -- 7 each in the Fall and Spring. In between, that's a lot of weekends off.

By comparison, this is Wash Spirit VA's 04s: http://wsav.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=3952300

Total of 25 games throughout the year -- 13 in the Fall, 12 in the Spring. Pretty much one game every weekend during the seasons.

- but did u look @ the differences in roster size,, &playing time? WS roster seems huge....r any of those DPs?

Maybe they need so many games because there r so many players & can take only 16-18 to each match.....

Kids played up on the 03’s which does not have a large roster.

Does WS have any Developmental Players - DPs - and if so on what non-DA team would they play? reston and Gunston? any club they want? DPs don't really fit the WS structure.......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know parents on FCV and Spirit VA and my understanding is that Spirit is much more likely to give subs significant playing time, even if it might cost them the lead, or the tie, they had before the subs came in, whereas FCV is much more about securing the win. You can decide which is a better fit for you and your kid, but in terms of development of all the players, Spirit is better.

I do not see why people continue to think that Spirit will eventually be funding some of the costs of the DA. First, the DA supplements the pro team, not the other way around. Part of the reason Spirit is more than FCV and VDA is because each Spirit player has to pay for season tickets as part of their DA fee. To put that in perspective, average attendance at a Spirit game was 3500 people. ~20 DA players per team times 8 teams (VA and MD) means that the DA probably contributes at least 3 to 4% of the team's ticket sales. Also, the league is not making that much money; one NWSL team has already shut down. What makes you think that Spirit has enough money to partially fund two DA teams?

Yep the women’s league in the US is something that could fold in a year or two. I guess a club would move in and pick up the GDA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who said Girls DA teams do not play ECNL teams?

here we go:
http://dallascup.demosphere.com/teams/2018/accepted88058564.html

even a new U16 DA Pilot team listed.

If you would like a sense of the future elite girls are facing as they leave Zone 1's U9 - U12 in the DMV, read the North Texas Soccer Forums and get up to speed in the ECNL and DA discussions on the Frontier Division that is in the middle of its inaugural U13 Pilot. Makes all these posts on DCUM civilized by comparison.

The DMV gets it own U13 Pilot this year, and maybe U16 Pilot down the line. The options in the DMV are overwhelming and not something you just ignore. U13 is a fork in the road, so do your darn' homework, but realize these questions will linger long into the 2017-18 seasonal year.

US Soccer playing favorites in TX and VA/MD/PA/NJ?

U13 and U16 Pilots = "DA2"?

US Soccer turning the screws on ECNL markets that are on life-support?

U13 USSDA full-sided training an impossible notion for 12-13 year old MS girls?

Money grab?

Confused parents and self-interest?ed clubs TDs and DOCs scare tactics?

A lot of noise around to sift through beginning now and not when ECNL tryout dates get posted. New DA announcements should be out soon which should help.

Good luck to all and thanks for all the helpful posts.

well, u have A. Dorrance on the case

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/76799/anson-dorrance-on-soccer-politics-marrying-the-ec.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know parents on FCV and Spirit VA and my understanding is that Spirit is much more likely to give subs significant playing time, even if it might cost them the lead, or the tie, they had before the subs came in, whereas FCV is much more about securing the win. You can decide which is a better fit for you and your kid, but in terms of development of all the players, Spirit is better.

I do not see why people continue to think that Spirit will eventually be funding some of the costs of the DA. First, the DA supplements the pro team, not the other way around. Part of the reason Spirit is more than FCV and VDA is because each Spirit player has to pay for season tickets as part of their DA fee. To put that in perspective, average attendance at a Spirit game was 3500 people. ~20 DA players per team times 8 teams (VA and MD) means that the DA probably contributes at least 3 to 4% of the team's ticket sales. Also, the league is not making that much money; one NWSL team has already shut down. What makes you think that Spirit has enough money to partially fund two DA teams?

Yep the women’s league in the US is something that could fold in a year or two. I guess a club would move in and pick up the GDA.

WS does not make us pay for tickets. The are included (and we get additional family tickets at a discount. In fact, we got them last season, and already again for their new season automatically. They claim the fees are all direct costs, and anything left over if they're under budget will be carried over. Not sure where you heard the pro league could fold. We heard there's a waiting list for teams to enter. The new team sold a multi million sponsor the other week.

[Anonymous]

Spirit doesn’t make you write a separate check for the player’s season tickets. They just wrap that cost into the $5k fee but make no mistake, you are paying for those season tickets.

[Anonymous]

^ You are right on tickets. Spirit also pays its coaches more, so it's a good gig that draws good coaches through the revolving door. Of course those ticket and coaches salaries get passed on to players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ You are right on tickets. Spirit also pays its coaches more, so it's a good gig that draws good coaches through the revolving door. Of course those ticket and coaches salaries get passed on to players.

That's not what they say, but even if so Is that a bad thing to have access to see games. I highly doubt 70 season tickets are going to make or break a team that has like 4000 at every game. As for charging for coaching salaries, well duh..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ You are right on tickets. Spirit also pays its coaches more, so it's a good gig that draws good coaches through the revolving door. Of course those ticket and coaches salaries get passed on to players.

That's not what they say, but even if so Is that a bad thing to have access to see games. I highly doubt 70 season tickets are going to make or break a team that has like 4000 at every game. As for charging for coaching salaries, well duh..

You're arguing with yourself. Not sure what you added that I already explained. Why so negative?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ You are right on tickets. Spirit also pays its coaches more, so it's a good gig that draws good coaches through the revolving door. Of course those ticket and coaches salaries get passed on to players.

That's not what they say, but even if so Is that a bad thing to have access to see games. I highly doubt 70 season tickets are going to make or break a team that has like 4000 at every game. As for charging for coaching salaries, well duh..

To repeat, 4 teams * 2 clubs (MD & VA) * 20 players/team = 160 tickets.

160 tickets / 3491 average Spirit attendance = 4.5%

If you can’t understand that a 4.5% increase in tickets sales makes a difference for a struggling business, then it’s pointless talking to you.

The DA also supplements Spirit’s pro team coaching expenses b/c instead of all of the coaching staff’s incomes needing to come from the pro team, they’re able to collect some of those salaries from working with the DA. Not saying the DA is not receiving value, it’s just that the DA is helping the pro team, not the other way around, so it will be a long time before money flows the other way and DA players get a reduced fee because of the affiliation with Spirit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ You are right on tickets. Spirit also pays its coaches more, so it's a good gig that draws good coaches through the revolving door. Of course those ticket and coaches salaries get passed on to players.

That's not what they say, but even if so Is that a bad thing to have access to see games. I highly doubt 70 season tickets are going to make or break a team that has like 4000 at every game. As for charging for coaching salaries, well duh..

To repeat, 4 teams * 2 clubs (MD & VA) * 20 players/team = 160 tickets.

160 tickets / 3491 average Spirit attendance = 4.5%

If you can’t understand that a 4.5% increase in tickets sales makes a difference for a struggling business, then it’s pointless talking to you.

The DA also supplements Spirit’s pro team coaching expenses b/c instead of all of the coaching staff’s incomes needing to come from the pro team, they’re able to collect some of those salaries from working with the DA. Not saying the DA is not receiving value, it’s just that the DA is helping the pro team, not the other way around, so it will be a long time before money flows the other way and DA players get a reduced fee because of the affiliation with Spirit.

I never thought of it that way. Clearly they started 2 DAs to sell more tickets and fund professional coaches. I must not have anything do with developing players to be on the team in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ You are right on tickets. Spirit also pays its coaches more, so it's a good gig that draws good coaches through the revolving door. Of course those ticket and coaches salaries get passed on to players.

That's not what they say, but even if so Is that a bad thing to have access to see games. I highly doubt 70 season tickets are going to make or break a team that has like 4000 at every game. As for charging for coaching salaries, well duh..

To repeat, 4 teams * 2 clubs (MD & VA) * 20 players/team = 160 tickets.

160 tickets / 3491 average Spirit attendance = 4.5%

If you can’t understand that a 4.5% increase in tickets sales makes a difference for a struggling business, then it’s pointless talking to you.

The DA also supplements Spirit’s pro team coaching expenses b/c instead of all of the coaching staff’s incomes needing to come from the pro team, they’re able to collect some of those salaries from working with the DA. Not saying the DA is not receiving value, it’s just that the DA is helping the pro team, not the other way around, so it will be a long time before money flows the other way and DA players get a reduced fee because of the affiliation with Spirit.

I never thought of it that way. Clearly they started 2 DAs to sell more tickets and fund professional coaches. I must not have anything do with developing players to be on the team in the future.

If the pro teams thought they could train their future players, they wouldn't make the cost be about 7% of the median income in the area. I guarantee you the only parents thinking of WS as a soccer select option for their daughter are those with medium to high HHI. Unless you would argue the WS future players should be able to sustain themselves from their parents income(maybe?). The program is meant to help them out find quality players whose parents can pay the price tag in full. A 15yo player now might be in a pro team 7 years from now, perhaps not starting; WS isn't thinking that far ahead with their DA team. They're going year to year and ensuring the program isn't costing them any money.