Where are all you families of high performing students planning on moving to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Bethesda and Silver Spring crowd is too focused on protecting or destroying the top W schools. The people who would be moving fast would be people from the poorer Ws and people from the schools in the mid range schools being moved into a lower school. Heck there would be panic even at a very low ranking school like Einstein if a few neighborhoods were sent up to Kennedy.

Boundary changes that reach far into any of the schools below to pull out wealthier kids and send them further away to poor school will result in lots of people moving away fast.

Clarksburg to Seneca Valley
Blair to Einstein or Wheaton
Blair, Northwood, Einstein or Wheaton to Kennedy
Quince Orchard to Northwest
Northwest to Seneca Valley
Sherwood to anywhere in the DCC
Wootton/RM to Gaithersburg or Rockville
Walter Johnson to Einstein or anywhere in the DCC

It's literally 2 miles from Northwest High School to Seneca Valley High School. You can bike there in 10 minutes.

The proposed option isn't going from NW to Seneca Valley. Starting point should be Darnestown Elem (which feeds into NW) to Seneca Valley. Current bus ride for them is 45 min going to NW. Now add the additional time to get to SVHS.

Yes, it is. That's Option 4. Option 4 is going from Northwest to Seneca Valley:

Proposed High School Reassignments
Reassign Darnestown ES from Northwest HS to Seneca Valley HS
Reassign Little Bennett ES from Clarksburg HS to Seneca Valley HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree and Darnestown really should be going to QO. Darnestown ES is literally right down the road from QO but kids are bussed past QO and up to NW instead. I guess the thinking is that since they have already been sacrificed why not send them even farther past QO and NW. Diamond ES and Brown Station is another diversity move. Diamond is closer to QO than Brown Station but Brown Station is bussed through the Diamond boundaries to get to QO while Diamond is sent over to NW. Brown Station keeps QO from being too wealthy and Diamond adds some wealthy families to NW.

It doesn't work. Parents hate it. Kids get sent to schools further away for longer bus rides and end up being from geographic islands. It has not created any utopia at all. There are racial incidents at QO, some parents resent the BS kids and the BS kids tend to get left out. The BS kids are not performing any better than low income kids at any other MCPS school. Darnestown sends so few kids to NW that it does nothing for adding wealthy kids into the mix. Because of the zoning most kids at Darnestown go to private for high school, file COSAs or even lie about their residency. Sending Darnestown to Seneca Valley will just push out the few kids who were willing to go to NW.

Kids from Brown Station should go to a different high school, with no wealthy kids, for their own good!!!!! Or at least that's what you're saying.

Brown Station ES is also literally right down the road from Quince Orchard HS, of course.

[Anonymous]

I just read the post where someone was recommending splitting up the PTA funds across all schools. Funny. Already we pay higher income and property taxes which funds MCPS programs across the county. And now a PTA redistribution?? Ain't gonna happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just read the post where someone was recommending splitting up the PTA funds across all schools. Funny. Already we pay higher income and property taxes which funds MCPS programs across the county. And now a PTA redistribution?? Ain't gonna happen.

You might pay higher income taxes. You don't pay higher property taxes - everyone pays the same rate. If you pay more property taxes, it's because the value of your property is higher.

Also, taxes aren't user fees. You're not entitled to more school services based on paying more taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree and Darnestown really should be going to QO. Darnestown ES is literally right down the road from QO but kids are bussed past QO and up to NW instead. I guess the thinking is that since they have already been sacrificed why not send them even farther past QO and NW. Diamond ES and Brown Station is another diversity move. Diamond is closer to QO than Brown Station but Brown Station is bussed through the Diamond boundaries to get to QO while Diamond is sent over to NW. Brown Station keeps QO from being too wealthy and Diamond adds some wealthy families to NW.

It doesn't work. Parents hate it. Kids get sent to schools further away for longer bus rides and end up being from geographic islands. It has not created any utopia at all. There are racial incidents at QO, some parents resent the BS kids and the BS kids tend to get left out. The BS kids are not performing any better than low income kids at any other MCPS school. Darnestown sends so few kids to NW that it does nothing for adding wealthy kids into the mix. Because of the zoning most kids at Darnestown go to private for high school, file COSAs or even lie about their residency. Sending Darnestown to Seneca Valley will just push out the few kids who were willing to go to NW.

Diamond ES is 3 miles from Northwest HS and 2 miles from Quince Orchard HS. Tell you what - I'll support rezoning Diamond ES to Quince Orchard HS if all the Diamond ES parents commit to having their kids walk to school.

[Anonymous]

The truth is this: there is no way to elevate all schools in a large district like MoCo to the level of the current high performing schools. The only way to “close the gap” is to erode the performance of the top schools and boost the performance of the lower schools is by redistributing the only resource that matters: high-performing kids, who are high-performing for reasons that have little to do with the quality of the school itself. The political incentives for decision makers to do this are compelling, so that is what will happen. My guess: physical redistribution will focus primarily on pockets of high performing students with low enough SES that moving to private or out of MoCo is less realistic. Those with a viable exit option will be spared other than having their currently high performing schools watered down a bit, with incrementally increased safety/disruption issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The truth is this: there is no way to elevate all schools in a large district like MoCo to the level of the current high performing schools. The only way to “close the gap” is to erode the performance of the top schools and boost the performance of the lower schools is by redistributing the only resource that matters: high-performing kids, who are high-performing for reasons that have little to do with the quality of the school itself. The political incentives for decision makers to do this are compelling, so that is what will happen. My guess: physical redistribution will focus primarily on pockets of high performing students with low enough SES that moving to private or out of MoCo is less realistic. Those with a viable exit option will be spared other than having their currently high performing schools watered down a bit, with incrementally increased safety/disruption issues.

Why are people worrying about the "performance" of schools, rather than of the kids in the schools?

And if kids' test scores have little to do with the quality of the school, then why would anybody even care whether their kid goes to [School With High Test Scores] or [School With Low Test Scores]?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the RM cluster parents here.

What I’m about to say is going to be Un-PC. Many people will get upset and I’ll be flamed to high-heavens. This is not something one can say out loud.

Disruptions in the classroom - do we all know who is causing the disruptions in the classroom? The disruptions that take teacher away from educating our kids? The disruptions that can ruin a day for our kids? The ADHD kids or kids with other emotional issues. Usually white kids from good families.

Negative social stuff - do we know who causes the negative social stuff for my kids? The ADHD kids with their impulsivity tend to say mean, hurtful things to my kids. Other groups causing a negative social environment around my kids - mean, popular white kids. You know the type. My kids are more negatively influenced socially and academically by those groups of people than they are by the riff raff.

If you are so concerned about your kids not being disrupted in the classroom or by negative social influences, you’d better start a campaign to remove ADHD/emotionally troubled white kids from your kid’s school too.

I am concerned about low-performing students - doesn't matter if they are from a certain race or income group.

Am I that concerned so that I would want to start a compaign to remove them? No. And also I understand changes take more effort. So I am not for changes to the current situation. I am simply concerned enough so that I would resist any changes that could bring in more bad apples. Bringing in more low performing kids (again, doesn't matter if they are low performing white kids or asian kids or AA kids or hispanic kids or rich kids or poor kids) increases that chance so I would resist that.

If people believe there are benefits that outweigh the concerns, they can spell those out, but don't just dismiss these valid concerns.

Is that so hard to understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's back up - what is everyone's fear? What does everyone consider to be a path of destruction in regards to boundary changes? What do you think is going to happen?

Does everyone think your school that has FARMS < 10% will suddenly become a school with FARMS > 50%?

Or are you scared that your school's FARM rates will be about 25%

Give us numbers - tell us exactly what you fear.

-Signed, a white, high-income parent in the RM cluster who has no plans to move and just doesn't understand all this fear.

Everyone's fear is that there's only so much good stuff to go around, so they need to make sure that their kids get it. Opportunity hoarding.

I'm an Asian American high income parent in the RM cluster, and I don't get the "the sky is falling" fear on this forum, either. But maybe that's because we -- the ^PP and I -- already live in a cluster that has a 20%ish FARMs rate, and we have no plans to move out of the cluster because of the consultants that the BOE is hiring to look at a better way to draw boundaries. Maybe the W parents think RM cluster already has a too high FARMs rate so that's why we don't care about the study?

Is it only the W parents that seem to have this "the sky is falling" irrational fear?

I don’t think it’s the W parents. I think it’s the Clarksburg/NW parents who may get rezoned to Seneca Valley. But maybe I’m wrong ... could be W parents too. They’re a popular target here.

It may be the Clarksburg/NW parents, but you'd better believe it's some of the W parents, too. Look at how WJ parents are *flipping out* around Woodward/DCC reassignment. If they're a target, it's because they make themselves that. I know plenty of people IRL who fit that exact profile.

We're a white, high-income family in the DCC who also aren't freaking out, because we're confident our kids will do well regardless of where they'll go, for various reasons.

Haven’t seen W parents flipping out over Woodward. They are really excited to finally get a performing arts magnet. There appear to be some DCC folks who want to get K-P moved to Einstein and their school moved into WJ. I’ve seen a lot about that on DCUM. But honestly, right now, this is mostly an upcounty issue. Woodward isn’t opening until 2025 at the earliest.

You can't possibly be serious. The news about the performing arts magnet is very new and there are plenty of W parents still freaking out. Maybe not on this thread, but go read the one on the Real Estate forum. What's that up to, 90 pages? Also, the decision that Woodward wouldn't be open until 2025 was literally just made last week. The facts simply don't bear out your assertions.

I beg to diasagree. The BOE has been getting community input from WJ cluster for years now about whether to simply expand WJ (keep everyone together) or reopen Woodward (split up WJ and add new neighborhoods) to alleviate current overcrowding and accommodate future growth. The overwhelming response was to reopen Woodward. Similarly, the BOE has been asking for community input on special programs, including the performing arts magnet. Again, the community wanted the performing arts magnet.

Now, it will be hard to bring a performing arts magnet online, but Woodward will have a community that is committed to doing that.

I’m sure there are individual W parents who are freaking out and more likely to vent on DCUM. But in real life, people expect Woodward to be a nice place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's back up - what is everyone's fear? What does everyone consider to be a path of destruction in regards to boundary changes? What do you think is going to happen?

Does everyone think your school that has FARMS < 10% will suddenly become a school with FARMS > 50%?

Or are you scared that your school's FARM rates will be about 25%

Give us numbers - tell us exactly what you fear.

-Signed, a white, high-income parent in the RM cluster who has no plans to move and just doesn't understand all this fear.

Everyone's fear is that there's only so much good stuff to go around, so they need to make sure that their kids get it. Opportunity hoarding.

I'm an Asian American high income parent in the RM cluster, and I don't get the "the sky is falling" fear on this forum, either. But maybe that's because we -- the ^PP and I -- already live in a cluster that has a 20%ish FARMs rate, and we have no plans to move out of the cluster because of the consultants that the BOE is hiring to look at a better way to draw boundaries. Maybe the W parents think RM cluster already has a too high FARMs rate so that's why we don't care about the study?

Is it only the W parents that seem to have this "the sky is falling" irrational fear?

I don’t think it’s the W parents. I think it’s the Clarksburg/NW parents who may get rezoned to Seneca Valley. But maybe I’m wrong ... could be W parents too. They’re a popular target here.

It may be the Clarksburg/NW parents, but you'd better believe it's some of the W parents, too. Look at how WJ parents are *flipping out* around Woodward/DCC reassignment. If they're a target, it's because they make themselves that. I know plenty of people IRL who fit that exact profile.

We're a white, high-income family in the DCC who also aren't freaking out, because we're confident our kids will do well regardless of where they'll go, for various reasons.

Haven’t seen W parents flipping out over Woodward. They are really excited to finally get a performing arts magnet. There appear to be some DCC folks who want to get K-P moved to Einstein and their school moved into WJ. I’ve seen a lot about that on DCUM. But honestly, right now, this is mostly an upcounty issue. Woodward isn’t opening until 2025 at the earliest.

You can't possibly be serious. The news about the performing arts magnet is very new and there are plenty of W parents still freaking out. Maybe not on this thread, but go read the one on the Real Estate forum. What's that up to, 90 pages? Also, the decision that Woodward wouldn't be open until 2025 was literally just made last week. The facts simply don't bear out your assertions.

I beg to diasagree. The BOE has been getting community input from WJ cluster for years now about whether to simply expand WJ (keep everyone together) or reopen Woodward (split up WJ and add new neighborhoods) to alleviate current overcrowding and accommodate future growth. The overwhelming response was to reopen Woodward. Similarly, the BOE has been asking for community input on special programs, including the performing arts magnet. Again, the community wanted the performing arts magnet.

Now, it will be hard to bring a performing arts magnet online, but Woodward will have a community that is committed to doing that.

I’m sure there are individual W parents who are freaking out and more likely to vent on DCUM. But in real life, people expect Woodward to be a nice place.

Again, go read that thread in Real Estate. I agree that Woodward will be a fine school, but there are plenty of people who are "concerned" under the guise of "property values." (Translation: Woodward will include at least one and more likely two elementaries from the current DCC, and we all know what that means.)

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I think it means property values in those neighborhoods will escalate rapidly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am concerned about low-performing students - doesn't matter if they are from a certain race or income group.

Am I that concerned so that I would want to start a compaign to remove them? No. And also I understand changes take more effort. So I am not for changes to the current situation. I am simply concerned enough so that I would resist any changes that could bring in more bad apples. Bringing in more low performing kids (again, doesn't matter if they are low performing white kids or asian kids or AA kids or hispanic kids or rich kids or poor kids) increases that chance so I would resist that.

If people believe there are benefits that outweigh the concerns, they can spell those out, but don't just dismiss these valid concerns.

Is that so hard to understand?

Given that MCPS makes boundary decisions based on where you live, not on what your test scores are -- yes, actually it is hard to understand.

If there were a discussion at your community pool about whether or not to include Neighborhood A, would you respond, "I am concerned about people who don't swim well - doesn't matter if they are from a certain race or income group."?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the post where someone was recommending splitting up the PTA funds across all schools. Funny. Already we pay higher income and property taxes which funds MCPS programs across the county. And now a PTA redistribution?? Ain't gonna happen.

You might pay higher income taxes. You don't pay higher property taxes - everyone pays the same rate. If you pay more property taxes, it's because the value of your property is higher.

Also, taxes aren't user fees. You're not entitled to more school services based on paying more taxes.

What does PTA fund have to do with these taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The truth is this: there is no way to elevate all schools in a large district like MoCo to the level of the current high performing schools. The only way to “close the gap” is to erode the performance of the top schools and boost the performance of the lower schools is by redistributing the only resource that matters: high-performing kids, who are high-performing for reasons that have little to do with the quality of the school itself. The political incentives for decision makers to do this are compelling, so that is what will happen. My guess: physical redistribution will focus primarily on pockets of high performing students with low enough SES that moving to private or out of MoCo is less realistic. Those with a viable exit option will be spared other than having their currently high performing schools watered down a bit, with incrementally increased safety/disruption issues.

One might argue that the performance is simply an illusion that only exists because of economic segregation. Normalizing the distribution of FARMs throughout the county would help low-income students and make little difference to individual outcomes at these "high-performing" schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am concerned about low-performing students - doesn't matter if they are from a certain race or income group.

Am I that concerned so that I would want to start a compaign to remove them? No. And also I understand changes take more effort. So I am not for changes to the current situation. I am simply concerned enough so that I would resist any changes that could bring in more bad apples. Bringing in more low performing kids (again, doesn't matter if they are low performing white kids or asian kids or AA kids or hispanic kids or rich kids or poor kids) increases that chance so I would resist that.

If people believe there are benefits that outweigh the concerns, they can spell those out, but don't just dismiss these valid concerns.

Is that so hard to understand?

Given that MCPS makes boundary decisions based on where you live, not on what your test scores are -- yes, actually it is hard to understand.

If there were a discussion at your community pool about whether or not to include Neighborhood A, would you respond, "I am concerned about people who don't swim well - doesn't matter if they are from a certain race or income group."?

If that was the only factor, then there would not be any changes.

If there were a discussion at my community pool about whether or not to include Neighborhood A, and if that is OPTIONAL, then saying "I am concerned that they don't swim well" - if it is true and if "we" swim well would be a valid concern. You may have better reasons to include them, but still them not swimming well is a valid concern.