School residency cheaters investigated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The problem with removing rental and utility bills is that it would likely prevent undocumented immigrant children from getting an education and they are a vulnerable population. I am not sure how many of DC's undocumented immigrant population would be able to get government benefits sufficient to prove their residence.

Then these undocumented citizens should take it up with the people in escalades and infinitis that have ruined it for the rest of the class, literally. Anything people can abuse should be taken away.

I cannot think of any jurisdiction in the united states that has documentation procedures in place that would prevent undocumented immigrants. The debate is that if they are here, you want to integrate them and not create a perpetual underclass of non-citizens like in some European countries. Also studies show that early intervention preschool is the best way to create productive members of society through learning soft skills such as eye-contact, negotiating, showing up on time, and following directions.

Really, universal preschool should expand funding so that society/parents are not fighting over the crumbs of taxes leftover for the next generation.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/06/13/137109349/the-friday-podcast-the-case-for-preschool

Honest question, what is wrong with a perpetual underclass? Not like we don't have one now with a couple of different levels. All people are not created equal and lord knows all adults aren't. Who do you want to pick our strawberries, fight our wars voluntarily and serve us food? Document the exaisting underclasses and give them a hard but consistent road out and sit back and enjoy a disproportionate amount of resources. Not only is it the American way but by posting here it is a strong indication that you are enjoying the fruits of the system that you decry. The only real variable is if we are honest about it and if we honor the way out once they put in the work. But without a path a revolt is likely.

Maybe what's wrong with a "perpetual underclass" is that the feds and SCOTUS say local schools cannot deny education to undocumented immigrants.

http://wsbt.com/news/local/special-report-why-undocumented-immigrants-are-allowed-in-local-schools

""In June 1972, the Supreme Court issued Plyler v. Doe, a landmark decision holding that states cannot constitutionally deny students a free public education on account of their immigration status. By a 5-4 vote, the Court found that any resources which might be saved from excluding undocumented children from public schools were far outweighed by the harms imposed on society at large from denying them an education.

"For thirty years, Plyler has ensured equal access to education for children regardless of status, but anti-immigrant sentiment continues to threaten that right. States and localities have passed measures and adopted unofficial policies that violate the spirit—if not the letter—of the Court’s decision."
http://www.pbs.org/tpt/constitution-usa-peter-sagal/equality/education-illegal-immigrants/#.V32x5bsrLIU

What's wrong with a perpetual underclass? Are you a recent immigrant from India where they have one? Because if you tell me you've got irish or Italian ancestry, I will laugh and ask why you think my ancestors let yours into this country.

Because we gave them blankets, I am just surprised your ancestor was able to get laid with all the pot marks afterward to create a lineage.

FYI there is an underclass in this country, city and at your job. Your are just to naive to realize it. I can not think of many scalable or repeatable let alone actually examples of a society in human history where there wasn't one. American's problem is we don't like to admit it and we don't provide very much mobility between the classes unless you can rhyme, run or have a jump shot. Economic mobility is a farce in this country, you would be shocked if you how little actual transcendence there is. Also America is getting better at out outsourcing our underclass to placate idiots like you, check the label of your target shirt on your way to work today.

So people think it is better to deny an underclass rather than creat a repeatable way out of it and have the audacity to think I am the asshole?

[Anonymous]

The lady who works and NOAA and the parents who drive the Escalade don't exactly seem like the "underclass."

[Anonymous]

I would think the issue of retention and enrollment numbers is a big deal for any charter school that offers immersion language for French, Hebrew, and Chinese.

Either due to the mass third grade exodus to private and suburban schools, or due to the common movement of families in and out of D.C., children leave these schools at later grades. I do not think it is that easy to find First through Six graders at a fluency level in French, Hebrew. and Chinese to replace any that have left, also, what is the funding for half a class going to look like?

(http://dcimmersion.org/language-immersion-programs-in-the-us-and-in-dc/immersion-schools-in-dc/)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you think the DC Coucil will engage on this and follow through with requiring the OSSE and DCPS to feret out those parents enrolling students from outside the district? Is this really considered felony fraud as was stated in one of the articles? If so, why no jail time? Why aren't wages garnished for those found guilty?

Because when it was done before in some other state, there was a national outcry of injustice and the poor being penalized twice. You cannot get blood from a stone or money from an indigent/bankrupt person. I think if you really want to get at enforcement, D.C. needs to start charging the MD jurisdictions for the cost of educating their residents. That way it is guaranteed money and then there is an incentive for MD to do some enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think the DC Coucil will engage on this and follow through with requiring the OSSE and DCPS to feret out those parents enrolling students from outside the district? Is this really considered felony fraud as was stated in one of the articles? If so, why no jail time? Why aren't wages garnished for those found guilty?

Because when it was done before in some other state, there was a national outcry of injustice and the poor being penalized twice. You cannot get blood from a stone or money from an indigent/bankrupt person. I think if you really want to get at enforcement, D.C. needs to start charging the MD jurisdictions for the cost of educating their residents. That way it is guaranteed money and then there is an incentive for MD to do some enforcement.

that's stupid, the poor aren't driving escalades , Acuras and Infinits and we all know how much they pay union workers in metro and federal contractors. These people are probably making 180k a year and living it up in a $500k pg mcmansion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I'm enjoying this thread, the one on MOTH - where people are not annonymous has been equally entertaining.

Link? Is it possible to read if you're not on the list Serv?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would think the issue of retention and enrollment numbers is a big deal for any charter school that offers immersion language for French, Hebrew, and Chinese.

Either due to the mass third grade exodus to private and suburban schools, or due to the common movement of families in and out of D.C., children leave these schools at later grades. I do not think it is that easy to find First through Six graders at a fluency level in French, Hebrew. and Chinese to replace any that have left, also, what is the funding for half a class going to look like?

(http://dcimmersion.org/language-immersion-programs-in-the-us-and-in-dc/immersion-schools-in-dc/)

What does this have to do with residency?

The DC Public Charter Board does not permit kids who are fluent in target languages to replace those who have left charter immersion schools. This means that empty charter spots are left empty after the school's cut-off entry year (somewhere between PreK4 in Lamb's case, and second grade).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm enjoying this thread, the one on MOTH - where people are not annonymous has been equally entertaining.

Link? Is it possible to read if you're not on the list Serv?

MOTH has definitely helped cast people I thought were neighbors and friends in a different light. True colors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think the issue of retention and enrollment numbers is a big deal for any charter school that offers immersion language for French, Hebrew, and Chinese.

Either due to the mass third grade exodus to private and suburban schools, or due to the common movement of families in and out of D.C., children leave these schools at later grades. I do not think it is that easy to find First through Six graders at a fluency level in French, Hebrew. and Chinese to replace any that have left, also, what is the funding for half a class going to look like?

(http://dcimmersion.org/language-immersion-programs-in-the-us-and-in-dc/immersion-schools-in-dc/)

What does this have to do with residency?

The DC Public Charter Board does not permit kids who are fluent in target languages to replace those who have left charter immersion schools. This means that empty charter spots are left empty after the school's cut-off entry year (somewhere between PreK4 in Lamb's case, and second grade).

It's connection with residency is that for funding, it is desirable to keep the MD/VA third graders who are proficient in these rarer languages (French, Hebrew. and Chinese), then boot them out after they have moved to MD. Otherwise, there would be a third grade class of Hebrew with 14 DC students and 10 of them gone to MD/VA. Funding of 1 full-time teacher for 14 kids may not add up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't parents report the parents who are cheating? Why would you let it go that half the damn class is from maryland? I don't understand. I mean, I'd be more inclined to let it go if the kid was under privileged, but the handful of people I suspect are cheating are able to do so because they are rich and own more than one property.

Because the poster is lying. If you have seen the PK3 classes at LT you would know that half of the class isn't 50% AA. It is more like 30%. The PKs at LT are overwhelming white and in-boundary families.

We are an IB family. Our PK class was 50/50 this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think the DC Coucil will engage on this and follow through with requiring the OSSE and DCPS to feret out those parents enrolling students from outside the district? Is this really considered felony fraud as was stated in one of the articles? If so, why no jail time? Why aren't wages garnished for those found guilty?

Because when it was done before in some other state, there was a national outcry of injustice and the poor being penalized twice. You cannot get blood from a stone or money from an indigent/bankrupt person. I think if you really want to get at enforcement, D.C. needs to start charging the MD jurisdictions for the cost of educating their residents. That way it is guaranteed money and then there is an incentive for MD to do some enforcement.

that's stupid, the poor aren't driving escalades , Acuras and Infinits and we all know how much they pay union workers in metro and federal contractors. These people are probably making 180k a year and living it up in a $500k pg mcmansion

Weren't people saying they dug into all the lawsuits of that one woman in the Caller and that she filed for bankruptcy? As an enforcement mechanism, it is better to go after the deeper pockets. Force MD jurisdictions to pay D.C. for educating their residents and force them to pay the costs of enforcement. Maybe MD will argue that they pay the costs in speed and red light camera fines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I'm enjoying this thread, the one on MOTH - where people are not annonymous has been equally entertaining.

Link? Is it possible to read if you're not on the list Serv?

MOTH has definitely helped cast people I thought were neighbors and friends in a different light. True colors.

Huh? I must have missed something. What in those emails would make you re-think your friendships? People who say they think that the process should be more rigorous to weed out fraud? People who wish a more reputable news source would do an investigation? You must have a very low tolerance for differences of opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think the issue of retention and enrollment numbers is a big deal for any charter school that offers immersion language for French, Hebrew, and Chinese.

Either due to the mass third grade exodus to private and suburban schools, or due to the common movement of families in and out of D.C., children leave these schools at later grades. I do not think it is that easy to find First through Six graders at a fluency level in French, Hebrew. and Chinese to replace any that have left, also, what is the funding for half a class going to look like?

(http://dcimmersion.org/language-immersion-programs-in-the-us-and-in-dc/immersion-schools-in-dc/)

What does this have to do with residency?

The DC Public Charter Board does not permit kids who are fluent in target languages to replace those who have left charter immersion schools. This means that empty charter spots are left empty after the school's cut-off entry year (somewhere between PreK4 in Lamb's case, and second grade).

It's connection with residency is that for funding, it is desirable to keep the MD/VA third graders who are proficient in these rarer languages (French, Hebrew. and Chinese), then boot them out after they have moved to MD. Otherwise, there would be a third grade class of Hebrew with 14 DC students and 10 of them gone to MD/VA. Funding of 1 full-time teacher for 14 kids may not add up.

This form of cheating happens rarely. There are only a handful of Chinese-speaking kids of the 400 YY students, and one or two Hebrew speakers at Sela. Even Stokes has very few French-speaking kids, mostly Haitian immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading trough a lot of this I feel most posters can be put into three groups

1- black people who feel that not running some of the district's poor black kids through ringer who don't have stable lives to begin with is a priority even if it lets in some opportunistic cheats from PG who bank on blending in.

2- white people who are not the least bit sympathetic that increasing the rigors on residency documentation would hit both the poor and ward 9 because they think the issue is "black and white" about DC resources

3- the Dutch

"Isn't a priority"

And maybe there are some people who simply believe that it being a parent involves some relatively minor inconveniences, like having to organize a small amount of paperwork, and perhaps take a small amount of time off from work, to have the government pay for your child entire education while also taking real steps to prevent fraud that is draining DC's financial resources. Maybe there are people who do not believe that this is overly burdensome on children, or that parents even need to alert their children to the fact that they are assembling this a documentation. DC losing money due to the fraud of Maryland residents. If the family is a recipient of services that are subject to fraud, like parents of kids in DC schools, then those parents should reasonably expect to need to participate actively and antifraud measures. Locating and assembling documents is just not that big of a deal and does not need to disrupt and already fragile existence as you seem to imply. The parents simply gather the materials and submit them. How much do you think we could improve the experience of DC student, my lower in class size, improving facilities, or providing better learning materials, with the savings from identifying fraud? Are we really OK throwing all of that money away because families don't want to fill out paperwork and find forms? Or maybe even take time off from work one day?

So, really? How do you know they didn't? And if you think that they didn't, did you know there's a way to report them and launch an investigation? A hotline and an online form you can submit: http://osse.dc.gov/service/investigation-and-residency-fraud. I mean, if it's that much of a concern to you, then "take time off work one day" to pursue the case and submit the information to investigators.

My primary concern is the quality of the education at my child's school. I don't think it's impacted much by residency fraud and I could not care less about chasing down families at ours or any other school. Damn sure don't have the time. In fact, I support every kid at my kid's school in spirit and dollars and hope every day that every parent there does the same. I hope the teachers are supported and feel supported. I hope the principal gives her all - HER ALL - to making sure that every child enrolled feels part of a community and capable of achieving their best. I expect the school administrators have done their duty to ensure residency and would be mad as hell if they also had to devote time to questioning people about their addresses during drop off.

That is not their fucking job.

You are being wholly nonsensical. How does any of that have to do with DC requiring adherence to residency documentation requirements, as well as follow up, of course not by teachers, if fraud is suspected? Not chasing parents in carpool lines, not photographing children, no hyper drama needed. Just boring, thoughtful anti-fraud measures. It's not that complicated. DC just wants to look the other way. And while I'm glad you want your daughter to have a great school, you are not the only person funding the DC school system. Lots of us don't even have kids in the system and are paying. Why should I pay for a Maryland resident to attend school just because her parents cheated, got her into your kids school through fraud, and you like her? You are essentially saying that DC taxpayers should simply throw money at Maryland residents because Maryland hasn't figured out it's school system adequately. Because you like your daughter's classmates.

And don't forget, every fraudster family may be taking one or more spots that some deserving DC kids were not able to get through the lottery. They are using funds and misappropriating resources that could otherwise go to hiring specialty teachers and teachers and fund enrichment and remedial programs for DC students. It's fraud and theft of services, pure and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think the issue of retention and enrollment numbers is a big deal for any charter school that offers immersion language for French, Hebrew, and Chinese.

Either due to the mass third grade exodus to private and suburban schools, or due to the common movement of families in and out of D.C., children leave these schools at later grades. I do not think it is that easy to find First through Six graders at a fluency level in French, Hebrew. and Chinese to replace any that have left, also, what is the funding for half a class going to look like?

(http://dcimmersion.org/language-immersion-programs-in-the-us-and-in-dc/immersion-schools-in-dc/)

What does this have to do with residency?

The DC Public Charter Board does not permit kids who are fluent in target languages to replace those who have left charter immersion schools. This means that empty charter spots are left empty after the school's cut-off entry year (somewhere between PreK4 in Lamb's case, and second grade).

It's connection with residency is that for funding, it is desirable to keep the MD/VA third graders who are proficient in these rarer languages (French, Hebrew. and Chinese), then boot them out after they have moved to MD. Otherwise, there would be a third grade class of Hebrew with 14 DC students and 10 of them gone to MD/VA. Funding of 1 full-time teacher for 14 kids may not add up.

This form of cheating happens rarely. There are only a handful of Chinese-speaking kids of the 400 YY students, and one or two Hebrew speakers at Sela. Even Stokes has very few French-speaking kids, mostly Haitian immigrants.

So what happens when kids move out of these language programs? If there is a third grade class of 20 French students and 5 move away or enroll in private school, can 5 students without any exposure to French fill those spaces for the fourth grade?