Fire in upper NW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Post just posted this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/housekeeper-of-dc-couple-found-dead-wondered-if-something-was-amiss/2015/05/16/08140154-fbf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html?hpid=z2

I thought there were some interesting updates including a vm to the 2nd housekeeper Wednesday night

and
The police documents also show what appears to be an unusual amount of activity last week around the victims’ Woodland Drive home, in an upscale neighborhood near the vice president’s mansion. Neighbors reported seeing a man banging on door of one home, an aggressive vacuum cleaner salesman at another house, reports of a prowler, and what a witness believed could have been the Savopouloses’ blue Porsche speeding down the street the day before the deaths were discovered.

That article definitely has a lot of new info. Sounds like both housekeepers had worked for the family for a long time. It seems very strange that the housekeeper spent the night since the 2nd housekeeper said the former would "never" spend the night. Also odd that Savvas asked her to inform the other housekeeper's family because her phone battery was dead..why didn't he inform them himself?

probably didn't have the family's number

But theoretically the housekeeper was nearby..wouldn't she have/know the #? She could've called from one of their phones. I dunno, I may be reading into it too much.

I'm wondering the same thing -- why wouldn't the housekeeper have used someone else's phone or the landline to call her family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also don't get it that the dogs weren't going berserk. Mine lose it over a delivery truck driving by.

They recently lived in the Caribbean for a year. Why? Seems unusual for a family with kids to just take off and live in a foreign country for a year. What about school? Yes, I understand they could afford tutors. But that still seems odd.

The twitter link above said a law enforcement official said that the fire started in the boy's room. Chilling.

It's interesting that they went to the Caribbean (does anyone know where?) and that the husband had a job/investment opportunity in Puerto Rico. OTOH, if they were having the house renovated, and the daughters were away at boarding school, maybe it makes sense for the mom and boy to move to the Caribbean for one year. Did they have tutors for him or did he attend a day school? There are some excelllent elementary day schools in and near San Juan, PR. And, obviously, they could afford for the dad to fly back and forth from DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a level of closeness after being with the same family so long. Murdering them and their child out of spite is a ridiculous theory. She watched all of their children grow up.

I don't agree with the housekeeper theory.

I also do not agree that all housekeepers are devoted to their employer. You can be extremely generous and kind to certain kinds of employees, and still get nothing but disdain for the rich in return. I'ce seen it. It's as ugly and obvious as you think.

Me either. Growing up we had a nanny and housekeeper who had been with us for 12 and 14 years respectively. They were like family.. My parents completely trusted them. My dad would give the housekeeper money etc to put in the safe. He was trusted with the combination. They both conspired to rob us and they disappeared. My dad was devasted more by the betrayal than by what was stolen.
Ever since my mum has had an unhealthy mistrust of what she calls "servants" ( I know, makes me cringe too). She always warns me to never trust them.

...and why would you ever trust a servant after that experience???

I think a lot of non-Americans come to this country, thinking the roads are paved with gold, and that things are handed to people - if you know the secret handshake, or something arbitrary. When people who think that way don't make tons of money overnight, and don't know how much work, blood, sweat, tears and time it really takes, and reality hits them, they get resentful quick.

It is a really tense situation if they come into your house every day, and you can cut the tension with a knife. It becomes "us vs. them", in their mind. I could see a united effort as PP described coming to fruition as soon as an opportunity presents itself. I think it happens in subtle ways, more often than people realize. But if you speak the language, and know their disposition, the resentment is crystal clear. You generally don't acquire wealth, achievements and successes by being a complete dumbass; but in some people's minds, it is easier to think that - and the resentment builds.

People who are resentful become their own worst enemy, but in reality, they are the ones who are too stupid to realize. It happens in the good old U.S. of A., within all cultures.

We had a long-term housekeeper when I was growing up, and my family has one now (12 years). I know lots of other families who do as well. What you're describing sounds very odd to me. I"m not one of those people who says "Oh, she's part of the family" -- that seems a little insincere to me -- but our housekeeper is a trusted employee for whom we have a great deal of appreciation. We treat her with kindness.

[Anonymous]

It seems like the events unfolded over such a long period of time though, if it was indeed a random crime of opportunity. All that time would greatly increase your odds of getting caught somehow or another.

If it was a hostage situation as of Wed evening and the criminals didn't want the housekeeper speaking Spanish, that suggests it wasn't the lawn crew, an El Salvadoran gang, or someone hired by the other housekeeper, since they would be able to understand what the housekeeper was saying to her husband (and maybe even many of the labor workers of the husband's). Unless she was hysterical, unconscious, or deceased.

[Anonymous]

One factoid that seems odd is that the car was found burning at about 5:15 pm and the POI video is timestamped 5:51. If the timestamp is correct, the video was taken well after the perpetrators should have been away from the scene (any scene, but I'm presuming the one near the burned-out car).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don't get it that the dogs weren't going berserk. Mine lose it over a delivery truck driving by.

They recently lived in the Caribbean for a year. Why? Seems unusual for a family with kids to just take off and live in a foreign country for a year. What about school? Yes, I understand they could afford tutors. But that still seems odd.

The twitter link above said a law enforcement official said that the fire started in the boy's room. Chilling.

It's interesting that they went to the Caribbean (does anyone know where?) and that the husband had a job/investment opportunity in Puerto Rico. OTOH, if they were having the house renovated, and the daughters were away at boarding school, maybe it makes sense for the mom and boy to move to the Caribbean for one year. Did they have tutors for him or did he attend a day school? There are some excelllent elementary day schools in and near San Juan, PR. And, obviously, they could afford for the dad to fly back and forth from DC.

Holy tangent, batman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One factoid that seems odd is that the car was found burning at about 5:15 pm and the POI video is timestamped 5:51. If the timestamp is correct, the video was taken well after the perpetrators should have been away from the scene (any scene, but I'm presuming the one near the burned-out car).

I bet the timestamp is wrong -- maybe an hour off and so it was really 4:51??

[Anonymous]

This is actually one of the most thoughtful discussions I've ever seen on dcum. Soon hopefully come arrests based on solid evidence, next an emotional response - most likely rage. My question before we all experience that is : Does this event make you more or less in favor of blanketing surveillance cameras (like England), does it make you less or more for aggressive broken windows policing (Giuliani), does it make you less or more sympathetic to what police do as a line of work, does it make you less or more for the right of homeowners in dc to own guns, does it make you less or more for knowing who is in our country through regulated immigration, does it make you less or.more sympathetic to crime in other areas (like the crime waves in the summer in Chicago) and the human cost and wanting "something to be done". I could add for or against the death penalty etc. I am not asking for a debate on these points, just a check in with yourself before "all the facts come out". Maybe another after? I'm.doing it. I've been watching the show "American crime" and one thing its made me thoughtful about is the different scripts people follow when it comes to crime and how / if it changes when personally affected or moved. For example, most of us cherish our civil liberties, but ask " where are the cameras" when a heinous crime happens and deeply grateful.if footage emerges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One factoid that seems odd is that the car was found burning at about 5:15 pm and the POI video is timestamped 5:51. If the timestamp is correct, the video was taken well after the perpetrators should have been away from the scene (any scene, but I'm presuming the one near the burned-out car).

I bet the timestamp is wrong -- maybe an hour off and so it was really 4:51??

Not adjusted for daylight savings time changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Post just posted this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/housekeeper-of-dc-couple-found-dead-wondered-if-something-was-amiss/2015/05/16/08140154-fbf7-11e4-9030-b4732caefe81_story.html?hpid=z2

I thought there were some interesting updates including a vm to the 2nd housekeeper Wednesday night

and
The police documents also show what appears to be an unusual amount of activity last week around the victims’ Woodland Drive home, in an upscale neighborhood near the vice president’s mansion. Neighbors reported seeing a man banging on door of one home, an aggressive vacuum cleaner salesman at another house, reports of a prowler, and what a witness believed could have been the Savopouloses’ blue Porsche speeding down the street the day before the deaths were discovered.

That article definitely has a lot of new info. Sounds like both housekeepers had worked for the family for a long time. It seems very strange that the housekeeper spent the night since the 2nd housekeeper said the former would "never" spend the night. Also odd that Savvas asked her to inform the other housekeeper's family because her phone battery was dead..why didn't he inform them himself?

probably didn't have the family's number

But theoretically the housekeeper was nearby..wouldn't she have/know the #? She could've called from one of their phones. I dunno, I may be reading into it too much.

I'm wondering the same thing -- why wouldn't the housekeeper have used someone else's phone or the landline to call her family?

1) The family would have expected her to speak in Spanish, and the murders didn't speak Spanish
2) She was already dead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is actually one of the most thoughtful discussions I've ever seen on dcum. Soon hopefully come arrests based on solid evidence, next an emotional response - most likely rage. My question before we all experience that is : Does this event make you more or less in favor of blanketing surveillance cameras (like England), does it make you less or more for aggressive broken windows policing (Giuliani), does it make you less or more sympathetic to what police do as a line of work, does it make you less or more for the right of homeowners in dc to own guns, does it make you less or more for knowing who is in our country through regulated immigration, does it make you less or.more sympathetic to crime in other areas (like the crime waves in the summer in Chicago) and the human cost and wanting "something to be done". I could add for or against the death penalty etc. I am not asking for a debate on these points, just a check in with yourself before "all the facts come out". Maybe another after? I'm.doing it. I've been watching the show "American crime" and one thing its made me thoughtful about is the different scripts people follow when it comes to crime and how / if it changes when personally affected or moved. For example, most of us cherish our civil liberties, but ask " where are the cameras" when a heinous crime happens and deeply grateful.if footage emerges.

We are moving to more cameras everywhere. I think Foucault discussed the Panopticon in Crime & Punishment. Basically, we will have cameras everywhere but humans will self-regulate their behavior because we will always feel we are being watched. Of course, there will always be crazy or stupid people who won't care. Beyond crime, cameras are also showing us the injustice that exists in our society (police brutality). We have discussed installing security cameras at our house. I would hope we would, as a society, decrease the large economic gap between rich and poor as we increase the surveillance of our citizens. Address the root of crime too.

There is always a part of me that thinks, "Get ready for the pre-cogs."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the wife and housekeeper were killed on Wednesday.

Saavas spoke to his sister on Thursday and was untroubled, WaPo reported.

They corrected that and said the conversation took place on Wednesday.

Thanks, PP. (and apologies for mis-spelling Savvas)

[Anonymous]

I have read Foucault and a surveyed society. I have also read 1984. I think in some ways there is a middle ground. That the footage not be reviewed unless/in case of crime. Or scanned to find patterns that show suspicious activities (terrorism). Does this work? I am not as terrified of 'the future' as I used to be. It is here. How do we use it to help us. I find I am always grateful when a camera or dna help build a case.

[Anonymous]

Having been a household employee for more than 15 years, I can't say that I've seen more resentment from my peers than what exists in other lines of work. Anyone with 15-20 years of experience can walk away from employers who treat them disrespectfully and find another position quickly.

I can't believe they would tell Gutierrez to call the family of the other housekeeper if she was masterminding the operation. That's crazy.

In response to the other PP, this case doesnt change my ideas of crime, punishment or public surveillance. Almost every person has a recording device in their possession at all times. This is the world we line in now. There's no sense in lamenting our loss of privacy as we film everything.

[Anonymous]

Not sure if anyone else does this, but my daughter uses a code phrase when she wants to be picked up or isn't having a good time while out and doesn't want to be a party pooper.


I will now tell her to use this in a hostage (hopefully this will never happen) or other bad situations.