"Ultimatums"

[Anonymous]

Has anyone successfully issued the ultimatum of counseling or separation? I'm in that boat, ready to issue it. I just don't know if this is a fool's errand. My husband has refused all counseling for years, but there is no way for us to stay married if a third party isn't involved. We have a 5 year old daughter, and really, this is the last ditch effort on her behalf. My husband has issues with explosive anger, and without a third party to assist, we're doomed. Anyone successfully get someone to go after numerous refusals with the ultimatum?

[Anonymous]

I guess I commend you for trying, but i'm sort of from the school where if you have to beg someone, if you have to work tirelessly to convince someone of you, then you're better to just call it a day. Considering your husband's anger issues, I have to wonder if life would be more peaceful for your daughter if you weren't together. Of course, I offer this in response to a one paragraph post, so you might have tons of reason why you think counseling could help. But counseling only helps if both people want to be there and have a shared goal.

[Anonymous]

First off, please see a counselor by yourself if you are not already seeing one. This is not professional advice just my experience so....
Sounds like you are at the end of your rope. I just went through this with my husband and his drinking problem. A couple years of trying to get him to cut back and nothing until an ultimatum. So far so good, but we're only about 4 months in so jury's still out. But, like above poster, I feel a little resentful that it had to come to that and that he wouldn't listen to me otherwise. It brings up a lot about our relationship in general but some people just don't get it until they see the alternative. I just had a friend whose husband refused counseling. They separated on the grounds that they would get counseling, give it 3 months and see how it goes. They went, he read a bunch of books and finally made the changes she wanted, but by then it was too late. She was over it and they divorced. Most therapists will say the chances of reconciliation after separation are slim. Ultimatums are scary b/c you have to be prepared to go through with them or he won't take you seriously and will continue to blow you/your needs off, which is not ok. Picture your life as a single mom without him. Does it bring you peace, sadness, anxiety, relief? Go get some counseling, if you haven't already. Good luck to you, and take care of yourself. These things are so hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I commend you for trying, but i'm sort of from the school where if you have to beg someone, if you have to work tirelessly to convince someone of you, then you're better to just call it a day.

This.

Basically, counseling and therapy don't really work unless the pt is a willing participant. They'll say whatever it takes to make you shut up about it and sweep it under the rug.

I am personally of the mindset that I don't do 'ultimatums' - either acquiesce to them or offer them. If you give me an ultimatum, my automatic response is: great, the answer is no, I'm calling your bluff. And if I'm wrestling with someone who won't work with me and it's to that point, then I already have the "no". I guess a lifetime of being around some P-A behavior has made me think these things are silly.

There is an alternate way of handling it, which does not engage the conflict or escalate it: just take action. Get a separation. Just get an apartment, line up your ducks and really do it. It's not a threat - it's a real action. Worry about doing what you have power over - yourself and your own actions - and quit trying to make someone else do something. If you move out and separate and he gets desperate to get back together, let him make his own choice to get counseling for his anger. Don't give him a list of things he has to do - just tell him what you want and let him work out what he needs to do to be what you want.

But seriously: people don't change that much and they tell you who they are soon enough. Just tell him you're tired of living with an angry person. And stop listening to angry rants. Walk away from it. Just reject the behavior. Hang up the phone, etc.

See a counselor, as the other poster said.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately I have to agree with the PP. You need to actually begin the divorce and separation process. If that isn't a wake up call to him there will never be a wake up call.

[Anonymous]

Anyone successfully get someone to go after numerous refusals with the ultimatum?

well, here's part of the problem. He thinks an ultimatum really isn't one, since there have been numerous ones.

Sadly, I think you should initiate separation. maybe he'll go to counseling then, if not, its for the best because the situation isn't working for you or for your daughter.

[Anonymous]

If DH has issues with explosive anger, it might be better if she doesn't shoulder the responsibility by leaving without giving the ultimatum first. The ultimatum puts responsibility on him. Then again, maybe that would make him even more angry? Giving counseling another shot, under pressure, would be helpful. Married or not, OP will have to coparent with DH for years to come and it sounds like they could benefit from a 3rd party being part of negotiations and teacher them some conflict resolution skills no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately I have to agree with the PP. You need to actually begin the divorce and separation process. If that isn't a wake up call to him there will never be a wake up call.

Yup.

Ultimatums don't work. The person who wants less, wins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anyone successfully get someone to go after numerous refusals with the ultimatum?

well, here's part of the problem. He thinks an ultimatum really isn't one, since there have been numerous ones.

Sadly, I think you should initiate separation. maybe he'll go to counseling then, if not, its for the best because the situation isn't working for you or for your daughter.

OP here. So I phrased that wrongly. What I meant was that my husband has repeatedly refused to go to counseling. He thinks it's a waste of time. I didn't mean that I have repeatedly issued ultimatums and not followed through. I can see how it would be read that way because, well, I kind of wrote it that way.

I guess the good news, if there is any, is that I never had to issue the ultimatum. I said I would not live through another night like last night, and if he keeps blaming "miscommunication" as the crux of our issues then let's go to a third party to hold each one of us accountable for what we say. To my utter surprise, he agreed. Finally. (Last night was particularly bad, not because it was more "explosively angry" than it has been in the past, but because it just came out of nowhere and made no sense.) So he has agreed to go. At this point there's no denying we have enormous issues, so I hope it's a true offer to go. I'll call tomorrow and find someone hopefully. Thank you all for your input.

[Anonymous]

My best advice regarding issuing ultimatums is only issue them if you are 100% positive that you are going to follow through on them.

Because if you are not sure you can be consistent, then they are completely useless + just a waste of time for all involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess I commend you for trying, but i'm sort of from the school where if you have to beg someone, if you have to work tirelessly to convince someone of you, then you're better to just call it a day. Considering your husband's anger issues, I have to wonder if life would be more peaceful for your daughter if you weren't together. Of course, I offer this in response to a one paragraph post, so you might have tons of reason why you think counseling could help. But counseling only helps if both people want to be there and have a shared goal.

The bolded, times a million. No need to wonder, it would be.


Signed, the daughter of a man with explosive rage problems, who wishes her Mum had had the ovaries to divorce him decades ago and who refers to her father as Mr. his surname when talking about him with friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anyone successfully get someone to go after numerous refusals with the ultimatum?

well, here's part of the problem. He thinks an ultimatum really isn't one, since there have been numerous ones.

Sadly, I think you should initiate separation. maybe he'll go to counseling then, if not, its for the best because the situation isn't working for you or for your daughter.

OP here. So I phrased that wrongly. What I meant was that my husband has repeatedly refused to go to counseling. He thinks it's a waste of time. I didn't mean that I have repeatedly issued ultimatums and not followed through. I can see how it would be read that way because, well, I kind of wrote it that way.

I guess the good news, if there is any, is that I never had to issue the ultimatum. I said I would not live through another night like last night, and if he keeps blaming "miscommunication" as the crux of our issues then let's go to a third party to hold each one of us accountable for what we say. To my utter surprise, he agreed. Finally. (Last night was particularly bad, not because it was more "explosively angry" than it has been in the past, but because it just came out of nowhere and made no sense.) So he has agreed to go. At this point there's no denying we have enormous issues, so I hope it's a true offer to go. I'll call tomorrow and find someone hopefully. Thank you all for your input.

Also get your own counselor. Going to counseling with someone with anger issues can sometimes make you feel like the crazy one because everything will turn into your fault. Hopefully that won't happen to you and you will get someone good and resolve things. I pray that you do.

My DH saw the light only when I told him we had to separate and that I had rented a place and was moving there, and his only choice was whether to be a grown up and talk to the kids with me or not. This was aftermany years, 2 attempts at marital counseling, a family intervention, and years of his own individual counseling. We're still apart and he now accepts, at least in part, that he is verbally abusive and needs to do serious work on that and other issues, and that he has damaged the kids with his behavior, but I don't know if he will accept enough and whether I can go back. Luckily, I don't have to decide just now.

Also pick up Patricia Evans's book on verbally abusive people. They also have it for Kindle, which is how I could read it without his knowing it before I left. Good luck to you, OP. I really hope your husband comes around with a lot effort than mine needs, assuming he really comes around at all.

[Anonymous]

"I guess I commend you for trying, but i'm sort of from the school where if you have to beg someone, if you have to work tirelessly to convince someone of you, then you're better to just call it a day."

Yup.
Add me to the list of non-believers in ultimatums.

[Anonymous]

Be prepared to follow through in your ultimatum. He may call your bluff. If you say therapy or separation, be ready to really separate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone successfully issued the ultimatum of counseling or separation? I'm in that boat, ready to issue it. I just don't know if this is a fool's errand. My husband has refused all counseling for years, but there is no way for us to stay married if a third party isn't involved. We have a 5 year old daughter, and really, this is the last ditch effort on her behalf. My husband has issues with explosive anger, and without a third party to assist, we're doomed. Anyone successfully get someone to go after numerous refusals with the ultimatum?

Why did you choose him?