I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've worked in secondary schools all of my career and I've never seen a rock star overachiever get shut out of a great colleges. Sure, not everyone can get into Ivies or Duke or even Notre Dame. But there's always the state flagship, Georgetown, NYU or Vanderbilt. No kid shooting for Yale falls on their face and ends up at George Mason.

OP is full of ****.

You're playing the telephone game. OP never said her kid was accepted to George Mason. She never said the school he was accepted at, just that it had a high acceptance rate. She didn't even say which state it was.

She also never said her kid was a rockstar overachiever. She said he had mid 1500 SATs and near 4.0 and that he was a hard-working kid who volunteers to help seniors and continued his work even during the pandemic because he felt bad that the seniors were even more lonely. She also said he wasn't shooting for HYP. She did mention Vandy, from which he was rejected.

It sounds like his list was very reasonable, though she said she didn't include all the schools in this post. I think he hit bad streak. I'm pulling for him.

Well sad. PP also has a very outdated view t
of George Mason. It’s now Virginia’s largest university and designated R1 for top research by the Carnegie Foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ And to demonstrate their commitment to the test policy, colleges have to accept 30 to 50 percent among the students who did not submit a test score.”

Is this true? It would explain all the deferrals and WLs we are seeing at my DC’s Big3 private. My kid has shown me MANY tik toks of kids getting into T20 schools this year - bragging that they only had an 1100 on the SAT or a 26 ACT and just didn’t submit scores. They have hit the lottery. It is a crazy admissions year.

Let’s see what happens when the 1100 club tries to keep up at a rigorous college.

Yet another person who thinks admissions professionals don't know what they are doing and are blindly admitting a bunch of failures because they don't have one data point they used to have.

(ps - no, they are not, the current classes will succeed at exactly the same percentage as before).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Demonstrating commitment" is total BS. Even a job does not require this and it provides a livelihood. The college admission is racketeering.

Guys, you are all understandably frustrated and embittered, but using hyperbole like "racketeering" is not helpful and also untrue. The colleges are doing their best in a difficult situation. And let's face it, for the most part we are speaking of 50-100 of the 3,000 colleges in the US, so maybe that is the issue?

I will simply ask this: what could the colleges do that would make it better for everyone?

Exactly this. There is a guide to the top 386 colleges - get that and look at numbers 101 through 300. These are all accredited schools where anyone can learn a lot. Yes, your kid may have a smaller peer group of advanced students, but your child will have plenty of resources.

+1 -- I work at a university ranked outside the top 100 but with a solid reputation that is included in the Fiske and Princeton Review guides. Plenty of my colleagues, who graduated from HYPS, send their kids to the schools (generally in Honors program) because it's tuition free. My colleagues have been very pleased with the education their kids received and they've gone on to excellent grad programs and careers.

The problem is not that top ranked schools need to get bigger. The problem is that parents/students need to stop their obsession with rankings. Expand your kids' list to include some schools other than the usual suspects (including safeties) and you'll be fine. The second problem is this idea that test scores are so meaningful and students with a 1500 SAT deserve a top school. Plenty of schools have been test optional for a while and have data to show that those kids still succeed. I believe test optional is here to stay, so everyone needs to get used to that.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been thinking about this nice kid & all the what score is enough posters. I truly believe that high school should be spent learning about what the DC likes, taking chances, exploring—becoming good people. I don’t think they have to know a career plan, but thy should have a good sense of self. My kids got this through jobs, activities, and sports. I think kids would be better doing what they love (theater, cooking, whatever) and finding a school that values their interests. My kids had solid scores. But what set them apart was a volunteer position that turned into a job and a hobby that turned into a job. They had interesting and unusual experiences and ultimately I think that’s what helped them in admissions. While this student volunteered and sounds well-rounded, perhaps that didn’t come through clearly to admissions. Hoping a waitlist spot comes through for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi, this is Op again. I don’t want to out my son but he is half Asian American and half parent from another country. Not Georgetown Day, but I don’t think it would be wise to say which one. I thought most schools prefer not to use the term safety anymore because no school is a “safety” or sure bet anymore. Our school also calls them “likelies.”
We slip up a lot and still call them safeties but they are right, there are no safe bets.

I think my son will have to be convinced that calling admissions reps won’t be bothering them and making his chances even worse. I hope the counselor is encouraging because he is more likely to trust her advice than ours, we are old and out of it.

This is our only child, so we having nothing to compare. We know the application process is hard this year and we were trying to be realistic but never thought he would only get in one school.

Unfortunately, I think your DS being Asian-American hurt his candidacy, particularly with the private universities you listed (I don't get what happened with UVM). Other HAPAs try to obscure being of Asian descent (I am not saying that you did this), but the Common App's request for information on parents' education and place of birth will raise the issue anyway.

Your counselor should have accounted for this and added either larger publics (where they have more slots) and/or SLACs, particularly in the South and Midwest (where being Asian may be viewed more positively).

I am Asian-American and this happened to me. I went to an Ivy/T14 university that did not have many Asians relative to the student population. But for the legacy boost for my own DC, this same discrimination would have happened to him too. It's just part of the stupid admissions game now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, this is Op again. I don’t want to out my son but he is half Asian American and half parent from another country. Not Georgetown Day, but I don’t think it would be wise to say which one. I thought most schools prefer not to use the term safety anymore because no school is a “safety” or sure bet anymore. Our school also calls them “likelies.”
We slip up a lot and still call them safeties but they are right, there are no safe bets.

I think my son will have to be convinced that calling admissions reps won’t be bothering them and making his chances even worse. I hope the counselor is encouraging because he is more likely to trust her advice than ours, we are old and out of it.

This is our only child, so we having nothing to compare. We know the application process is hard this year and we were trying to be realistic but never thought he would only get in one school.

Unfortunately, I think your DS being Asian-American hurt his candidacy, particularly with the private universities you listed (I don't get what happened with UVM). Other HAPAs try to obscure being of Asian descent (I am not saying that you did this), but the Common App's request for information on parents' education and place of birth will raise the issue anyway.

Your counselor should have accounted for this and added either larger publics (where they have more slots) and/or SLACs, particularly in the South and Midwest (where being Asian may be viewed more positively).

+1. Another Asian-American here, who gave my HAPA kids first and middle names that don't give away their Asian ethnicity specifically to avoid this kind of discrimination. Our last name is sort of vague and could be European, which helps (didn't help me back in the day, because my first name/ my parents' names/ their places of birth/ the colleges they went to all gave it away).

They can continue to try to engineer a system that discriminates against Asians, and we'll continue to find ways around it. My kids will NEVER check that box on their applications.

I am Asian-American and this happened to me. I went to an Ivy/T14 university that did not have many Asians relative to the student population. But for the legacy boost for my own DC, this same discrimination would have happened to him too. It's just part of the stupid admissions game now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to my safety and I make a ton of money.

I also went to a super-safety - an open admission school, graduated in 2.5 years (APs helped) and make lots of money. But those 2.5 years were not a good experience for me, and I wouldn’t want my kids to go to a school like that. I also think I could have achieved more if I went to a different school, the one that wouldn’t make everything a headwind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, this is Op again. I don’t want to out my son but he is half Asian American and half parent from another country. Not Georgetown Day, but I don’t think it would be wise to say which one. I thought most schools prefer not to use the term safety anymore because no school is a “safety” or sure bet anymore. Our school also calls them “likelies.”
We slip up a lot and still call them safeties but they are right, there are no safe bets.

I think my son will have to be convinced that calling admissions reps won’t be bothering them and making his chances even worse. I hope the counselor is encouraging because he is more likely to trust her advice than ours, we are old and out of it.

This is our only child, so we having nothing to compare. We know the application process is hard this year and we were trying to be realistic but never thought he would only get in one school.

Unfortunately, I think your DS being Asian-American hurt his candidacy, particularly with the private universities you listed (I don't get what happened with UVM). Other HAPAs try to obscure being of Asian descent (I am not saying that you did this), but the Common App's request for information on parents' education and place of birth will raise the issue anyway.

Your counselor should have accounted for this and added either larger publics (where they have more slots) and/or SLACs, particularly in the South and Midwest (where being Asian may be viewed more positively).

+1. Another Asian-American here, who gave my HAPA kids first and middle names that don't give away their Asian ethnicity specifically to avoid this kind of discrimination. Our last name is sort of vague and could be European, which helps (didn't help me back in the day, because my first name/ my parents' names/ their places of birth/ the colleges they went to all gave it away).

They can continue to try to engineer a system that discriminates against Asians, and we'll continue to find ways around it. My kids will NEVER check that box on their applications.

I am Asian-American and this happened to me. I went to an Ivy/T14 university that did not have many Asians relative to the student population. But for the legacy boost for my own DC, this same discrimination would have happened to him too. It's just part of the stupid admissions game now.

I made sure my kid's name reflect who she is. I also encouraged her not to downplay who she is. She knew that could work against her college applications. But she also realized, in the end, she can walk away from those schools. She did it, and she said, "Screw it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, OP.....read most of first 10 pages, now here...loved the American Exceptionalism questions....

So many themes from the posts resonate: the counselors failing us; wish I had prodded her to take more APs, despite despising history and English; and wish they had not cancelled the SAT she was scheduled for the Saturday 12 hours after lock down started last year(would have made no difference to the pandemic, the numbers in those days were far lower than they are now)....my daughter did Kahn Academy every single day for an hour and a half prepping for three months, because she utterly bombed her first attempt at SAT....then they cancelled the test, schools said they would be test optional, but kids who had good scores from their first try submitted them....I just feel we were doomed from the beginning....our family [grandparents, parents, siblings, cousins all raging about this right now] is super emotional, we've been raging, ranting and crying > 24 hours after finding out she did not get into UVA, after being waitlisted at Tech...W&M will be a hopeless joke. We have to stay in-state due to the VA 529 plan having been paid since birth, and me being low-income. The safeties she's in are safeties for everyone, and she is not excited about them, thanks to the prevalence of snobbiness throughout the DMV that brainwashes so many of these kids to look down on non-elite schools...heck, it's brainwashed me!

That exceptionalism question list was great, because why the hell don't we want a fully-educated country where every single person, without exception, attends college paid for with our tax dollars, and comes out debt-free, ready to serve humanity?

I just constantly see stupid stuff, like removing ALL the native plants in the names of erosion control(?) along the W&OD bike bath in Falls Church, and replacing with monoculture grass: as if all the chickory, purslain, mullein, echinacia, milkweed, etc, wasn't holding erosion at bay ? But more importantly, by providing bee and butterfly corridors with those flowers, we were saving the food supply of the planet...

...but on my bike ride today, I just saw total ecological devastation, replaced by acres and acres of freaking GRASS, and I too, GIVE UP, OP. We are just a stupid country, ignoring obvious ecology 101, because somehow we know better in the name of erosion control or whatever they're doing on the bike path....
I see trees being topped until their deaths, yards with NO TREES, or ONE ornamental tree (final height 5 feet), no flowers for bees that are vanishing faster than I can type this post, and I just think: we are a completely uneducated country and we are doomed, all of us...so what the hell does it matter what college anyone gets into, if we can't see for our nose in front of our face how quickly we are demolishing all the habitats and vanishing all the other species that we are inextricably interlinked with, for our assured mutual survival or destruction?

Because we don't believe in education, and waste so much stupid time watching football and other sports, more and more kids are going to be left out in the cold from college, since the few ivies/state schools cannot possibly educate everyone who needs an education....which means more people will be suceptible to conspiracy theories and more likely to elect demagogues, the next one of whom could be successful at fully ending Democracy in a way that Trump wasn't.

We're stupid Americans, the college process here is stupid, too many smart, caring kids are left in the cold, and because of that, one day we are going to be paying a terrible price, both in the loss of our democracy and the loss of our planet due to consistent ecological destruction, i.e. human made global warming.

Right on, OP, I mourn for your loss. I keep raging and grieving, not sure when it will abate.... but don't sugar-coat it for your son, you both have every right to feel whatever you feel. Thank you so much for starting this thread.....be kind to yourself as best you can for now....

Wow, you need to get a grip on yourself. Your whole family is "raging" about you kid not getting into UVA and your sad because you didn't push your DD harder to take classes she hates? That's ridiculous. It's no wonder your DD is upset. Is this the role model that you want to be? Seriously, you are probably making her feel like she's let the whole family down. Please, try to maintain a little perspective.

+1 yikes. That PP is a crazy mess.

-1. While the PP seems more than a little unhinged (to use a DCUM favorite), this is one of the most interesting posts I’ve read in my years here. Who else has ever coupled admissions angst with despair over the loss of native plants and the rise of demagoguery and monoculture grass? No one.

[Anonymous]

This is fascinating. The new Asian twist too.

I am Asian American married to a Jewish American. Our biracial child’s name doesn’t ring Asian per se, but last name is Jewish. Was planning to mark “Other” (not Asian or White) for race; as I’ve heard Other gets put into a different category.....

true or false?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, this is Op again. I don’t want to out my son but he is half Asian American and half parent from another country. Not Georgetown Day, but I don’t think it would be wise to say which one. I thought most schools prefer not to use the term safety anymore because no school is a “safety” or sure bet anymore. Our school also calls them “likelies.”
We slip up a lot and still call them safeties but they are right, there are no safe bets.

I think my son will have to be convinced that calling admissions reps won’t be bothering them and making his chances even worse. I hope the counselor is encouraging because he is more likely to trust her advice than ours, we are old and out of it.

This is our only child, so we having nothing to compare. We know the application process is hard this year and we were trying to be realistic but never thought he would only get in one school.

Unfortunately, I think your DS being Asian-American hurt his candidacy, particularly with the private universities you listed (I don't get what happened with UVM). Other HAPAs try to obscure being of Asian descent (I am not saying that you did this), but the Common App's request for information on parents' education and place of birth will raise the issue anyway.

Your counselor should have accounted for this and added either larger publics (where they have more slots) and/or SLACs, particularly in the South and Midwest (where being Asian may be viewed more positively).

I am Asian-American and this happened to me. I went to an Ivy/T14 university that did not have many Asians relative to the student population. But for the legacy boost for my own DC, this same discrimination would have happened to him too. It's just part of the stupid admissions game now.

So interesting. wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, this is Op again. I don’t want to out my son but he is half Asian American and half parent from another country. Not Georgetown Day, but I don’t think it would be wise to say which one. I thought most schools prefer not to use the term safety anymore because no school is a “safety” or sure bet anymore. Our school also calls them “likelies.”
We slip up a lot and still call them safeties but they are right, there are no safe bets.

I think my son will have to be convinced that calling admissions reps won’t be bothering them and making his chances even worse. I hope the counselor is encouraging because he is more likely to trust her advice than ours, we are old and out of it.

This is our only child, so we having nothing to compare. We know the application process is hard this year and we were trying to be realistic but never thought he would only get in one school.

Unfortunately, I think your DS being Asian-American hurt his candidacy, particularly with the private universities you listed (I don't get what happened with UVM). Other HAPAs try to obscure being of Asian descent (I am not saying that you did this), but the Common App's request for information on parents' education and place of birth will raise the issue anyway.

Your counselor should have accounted for this and added either larger publics (where they have more slots) and/or SLACs, particularly in the South and Midwest (where being Asian may be viewed more positively).

+1. Another Asian-American here, who gave my HAPA kids first and middle names that don't give away their Asian ethnicity specifically to avoid this kind of discrimination. Our last name is sort of vague and could be European, which helps (didn't help me back in the day, because my first name/ my parents' names/ their places of birth/ the colleges they went to all gave it away).

They can continue to try to engineer a system that discriminates against Asians, and we'll continue to find ways around it. My kids will NEVER check that box on their applications.[b]

I am Asian-American and this happened to me. I went to an Ivy/T14 university that did not have many Asians relative to the student population. But for the legacy boost for my own DC, this same discrimination would have happened to him too. It's just part of the stupid admissions game now.

Don't they have to check a box for race/ethnicity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, this is Op again. I don’t want to out my son but he is half Asian American and half parent from another country. Not Georgetown Day, but I don’t think it would be wise to say which one. I thought most schools prefer not to use the term safety anymore because no school is a “safety” or sure bet anymore. Our school also calls them “likelies.”
We slip up a lot and still call them safeties but they are right, there are no safe bets.

I think my son will have to be convinced that calling admissions reps won’t be bothering them and making his chances even worse. I hope the counselor is encouraging because he is more likely to trust her advice than ours, we are old and out of it.

This is our only child, so we having nothing to compare. We know the application process is hard this year and we were trying to be realistic but never thought he would only get in one school.

Unfortunately, I think your DS being Asian-American hurt his candidacy, particularly with the private universities you listed (I don't get what happened with UVM). Other HAPAs try to obscure being of Asian descent (I am not saying that you did this), but the Common App's request for information on parents' education and place of birth will raise the issue anyway.

Your counselor should have accounted for this and added either larger publics (where they have more slots) and/or SLACs, particularly in the South and Midwest (where being Asian may be viewed more positively).

+1. Another Asian-American here, who gave my HAPA kids first and middle names that don't give away their Asian ethnicity specifically to avoid this kind of discrimination. Our last name is sort of vague and could be European, which helps (didn't help me back in the day, because my first name/ my parents' names/ their places of birth/ the colleges they went to all gave it away).

They can continue to try to engineer a system that discriminates against Asians, and we'll continue to find ways around it. My kids will NEVER check that box on their applications.

I am Asian-American and this happened to me. I went to an Ivy/T14 university that did not have many Asians relative to the student population. But for the legacy boost for my own DC, this same discrimination would have happened to him too. It's just part of the stupid admissions game now.

You do not know how your child would have done without legacy. Nor do you know how similar his application was to OP’s DC. You are oversimplifying this process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is fascinating. The new Asian twist too.

I am Asian American married to a Jewish American. Our biracial child’s name doesn’t ring Asian per se, but last name is Jewish. Was planning to mark “Other” (not Asian or White) for race; as I’ve heard Other gets put into a different category.....

true or false?

Seventy years ago being Jewish would have hurt a lot, and being Asian would have helped. Now it's the other way around.

A lot of the folks listed as "others" in our FCPS HS are actually HAPAs that don't consider themselves Asian. I get that. You shouldn't be forced to choose your racial identity as a biracial person. You should decide that for yourself.

However, when it comes time for college admissions, they get lumped in with Asians. And the AOs look hard at the birthplace, education background, and location of the applicant's parents.

(NB: when Asian-looking folks get subjected to hate crimes, the perpetrators don't ask if their last name is Wong, Gonzalez, Smith, Jackson or Steinberg.)

Unfortunately we may have to wait another seventy years or more for Asians to get treated like Jews. Sigh.

Anyway, I think Asians and HAPAs are best served in the admissions process by going to one extreme (owning being Asian, writing about it in essays and how being a POC affects you) or the other extreme (appearing as non-Asian). Doing neither unfortunately puts your DC into the middle, to get dumped on like most Asians.

It's sad and it sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi, this is Op again. I don’t want to out my son but he is half Asian American and half parent from another country. Not Georgetown Day, but I don’t think it would be wise to say which one. I thought most schools prefer not to use the term safety anymore because no school is a “safety” or sure bet anymore. Our school also calls them “likelies.”
We slip up a lot and still call them safeties but they are right, there are no safe bets.

I think my son will have to be convinced that calling admissions reps won’t be bothering them and making his chances even worse. I hope the counselor is encouraging because he is more likely to trust her advice than ours, we are old and out of it.

This is our only child, so we having nothing to compare. We know the application process is hard this year and we were trying to be realistic but never thought he would only get in one school.

Unfortunately, I think your DS being Asian-American hurt his candidacy, particularly with the private universities you listed (I don't get what happened with UVM). Other HAPAs try to obscure being of Asian descent (I am not saying that you did this), but the Common App's request for information on parents' education and place of birth will raise the issue anyway.

Your counselor should have accounted for this and added either larger publics (where they have more slots) and/or SLACs, particularly in the South and Midwest (where being Asian may be viewed more positively).

+1. Another Asian-American here, who gave my HAPA kids first and middle names that don't give away their Asian ethnicity specifically to avoid this kind of discrimination. Our last name is sort of vague and could be European, which helps (didn't help me back in the day, because my first name/ my parents' names/ their places of birth/ the colleges they went to all gave it away).

They can continue to try to engineer a system that discriminates against Asians, and we'll continue to find ways around it. My kids will NEVER check that box on their applications.

I am Asian-American and this happened to me. I went to an Ivy/T14 university that did not have many Asians relative to the student population. But for the legacy boost for my own DC, this same discrimination would have happened to him too. It's just part of the stupid admissions game now.

You do not know how your child would have done without legacy. Nor do you know how similar his application was to OP’s DC. You are oversimplifying this process.

PP here. At my alma mater. legacy helps with marginal cases, to show demonstrated interest. DC had to fill out a LOCI to get in from an EA deferral list. He got in 2 weeks after submitting the LOCI.

Legacy is treated in many different ways at different schools. I don't know how legacy would have affected OP's DC.

My bigger point is that Asians iike my DC and HAPAs like OP's DC are disfavored in the application process. At my alma mater, legacy was one of the few factors that slightly (and I think decisively) helped my DC. All of the other factors (URM, 1st Gen, athlete, $) including being Asian went against him.

Finally, this is DCUM. Everyone is oversimplifying their own experiences in their posts. It's inherent in most posts here. The key is to read through all of the posts and draw your own conclusions.