I can’t say this to my kid’s face, of course, but...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so sorrt, OP. It’s been a train wreck if a year..

I agree OP. My DD who only got one B in four years of HS, got rejected at all the top schools she applied to. Her counselors told her not to apply to any safeties because she didn't need them (small school, really dumb counselors, IMHO). She got accepted at our state U and a few other mid-level SLACs, but no Ivies, no reaches. She's a great kid, with many accomplishments, but this is a terrible, terrible year to apply to college. She's going to do a gap year becasue she doesn't want to go to any of the schools she got into. She has a gap year job offer, so she's going to take that. Not a career job, but she'll make some money and wait for better days ahead. It sucks OP, it really does. Only weakness in her application I see is that she got a 1480 on her SAT, but she only took it once. She hates standardized tests, and I told her if she hit 1450, that was good enough.

This is no different than any other year.

I don't know how old you are, but DD is my youngest child. Her older siblings with lower GPAs got into much better schools than she did. In my experience, this is a terrible year for college admissions. Her older siblings had slightly lower test scores too, yet they still got into much more competitive colleges. And so did their friends. DD would have sailed into the colleges her older siblings attended, had she applied six or eight years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“ And to demonstrate their commitment to the test policy, colleges have to accept 30 to 50 percent among the students who did not submit a test score.”

Is this true? It would explain all the deferrals and WLs we are seeing at my DC’s Big3 private. My kid has shown me MANY tik toks of kids getting into T20 schools this year - bragging that they only had an 1100 on the SAT or a 26 ACT and just didn’t submit scores. They have hit the lottery. It is a crazy admissions year.

Let’s see what happens when the 1100 club tries to keep up at a rigorous college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were OP, I would hire a private counselor, take a GAP year, keep the SAT scores or try again to move it up. But he shoudl take the SAT II subject matter tests and if he gets close to an 800, send them in. Princeton "highly recommends them" so DS did them. Or maybe even try the ACT. Some kids test better on the ACT than the SAT.

Meanwhile, have your head call around, as suggested. Show demonstrated interest (they are all concerned about yield). Watch those lists of undersubscribed schools. But seriously consider the gap year. It's been a horrible one for everyone I know in the rat race this year.

SAT IIs no longer exist. And the kid's SAT score is high enough for everywhere.

Of course they still exist. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat-subject-tests/register/test-dates-deadlines. And this year, unfotunately, you need perfect scores to get in. My kid got a 34 on the ACT and ON HIS OWN decided to try for a 36 and got it. That's where you will get the very few merit scholarships left by middle and third tier schools.

College Board website alert - SAT Subject Tests have been discontinued in the United States, and will be discontinued internationally after June 2021

Why??? Is this this due to Covid or are we in a race to the bottom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've worked in secondary schools all of my career and I've never seen a rock star overachiever get shut out of a great colleges. Sure, not everyone can get into Ivies or Duke or even Notre Dame. But there's always the state flagship, Georgetown, NYU or Vanderbilt. No kid shooting for Yale falls on their face and ends up at George Mason.

OP is full of ****.

This pandemic is a once a century event. Are you more than 100 years old?

This is an extraordinary year. If OP is a troll, that would surprise me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - is schooling in your spouse's foreign country an option?

We are in a similar boat in which I am Asian American and my spouse is from the EU. We are planning on sending children to my spouse's alma mater unless DC gets merit aid from a top choice in the US. We figured this is a good option especially since professional schooling in the US requires a bachelor's first.

Congratulate your son on his likely - he can always go to his likely (or a CC) and transfer but know that hard work and perseverance will pay off in the end.

OP- I also think that if your son takes time off, to perhaps work on finding an academic focus. I used to do college interviews for my alma mater -- a top college that is talked about frequently here. When I think back at students who interviewed with very little career direction versus those who had crafted a nice path that coincided with some of the strengths of my school, it made a difference in how I viewed that student. I said to myself "this is a top college that this student is interviewing with. Could this student come in on day one and fit in/contribute to the conversation?" To make sure that I wasn't too harsh, I had shared my experience generically with a few select alumni at an outing (student name withheld). Oddly enough, they were more harsh than I was. And these were alum who went to the same caliber of top level grad schools (top 10). So I think we pretty much held the same approach to what type of students should get the nod. It wasn't just smarts and top numbers that impressed because many students had that. We wanted the story.

I am sure the same comes across in admissions essays where the student will have to state why they want to attend that school. Emory's stats and reputation have really increased over time. I think that it's hard to go in undecided or without a path of some sort or another, into a top school these days.

Some colleges will care less about career/major direction etc. But others will care because they force the student to apply to one of the divisions/departments for admissions. If you don't get into the division, you usually don't get into that college.We experienced that and it was a tough learning.

Having said all of that, again, I really wish you the best of luck. Your son will find a good path forward. And thanks for sharing so that others can learn.

Isn't part of the purpose of liberal arts education to gain broad exposure and eventually find academic focus? It's nuts, IMHO, to expect a 17 y.o. to know what they want to do with the rest of their life. I'm so glad that wasn't an expectation when I went to school. Being a generalist w.r.t. academic interests doesn't mean someone can't "contribute to the conversation on day one". What nonsense!

--HYPS alum for undergrad and grad

Well, it wasn't nonsense for those students who interviewed with me. Several of them had an idea if they were STEM focused or Humanities/Social Science. I have talked with several students from different types of schools across the DMV, and usually they have some sort of focus, even if it's not 100% in stone. I have some really wonderful interviews. There are some really talented students here in the DMV, and several of those I interviewed got into my alma mater. They were really, really good candidates. And there were those who did not gain acceptance.

Any kid not having some sort of strength out there or display of interest is, in my opinion, going up against a lot of other students who have a plausible path in something or another. Not saying that you have to have it. Just saying that I have seen those with it, and those without it while interviewing for my school.

This may not apply to all schools.

I'm just trying to help.

And yes, my credentials speak as loudly as yours. I am as HYP, etc., as you can get.

That's not saying all that much. Ted Cruz and Kayleigh McEnany are HYP too. Yetch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I totally feel for you. My kid who goes to a Big 3 has gotten numerous rejections and a couple of waitlists. He has gotten into one match school and while there is a part of him that's really relieved to be in that school, I think there is another part of him that feels it would be nice to have choices. We didn't visit any colleges this fall due to the pandemic so we were looking forward to making some visits this spring in anticipation of having a choice. I asked my kid if she/he wanted to visit the school they had gotten into and the response was "Why? I don't have any other options and I know I have to go there so I'm not sure I need to visit." I know people on this site will jump on this comment and say that this kid has a bad attitude but lets remember that these kids are 18 years old, had a really tough senior year and are now having a brutal admissions cycle. The wounds are fresh and while I have no doubt my kid will ultimately get excited about the available choice and visit the school, for now it's understandable to be bummed. We're not flawless adults and we don't have the perfect reaction ourselves when we're disappointed so let's not expect this from our kids who are coming out of a horrible year.

Similar situation last year, so off he went to his safety, sight unseen. It is working out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could it be that admissions counselors feel that someone with the privileges he has should have no problem getting these grades and scores, and that getting them in that social context is far from the impressive feat that many people assume it must be? The system is set up to reward those with the good fortune like you, me, and our kids to be born into stable families with educated parents and access to great schools and financial stability. Could it be that simply following orders to maintain an extremely comfortable lifestyle is not the key ingredient of success? You have given no hints about the things that motivate your DC and make him unique.

No. Smart is smart.

My brother had lowish high school grades and astoundingly high SAT scores. It reads to admissions folks as "lazy as hell." In my brother's case it was true. Today, you might also assume that someone was prepped a lot to get the high SAT scores. But a 3.6 and high SAT scores reads a bit like "he could have gotten A's but he's kind of lazy." My brother only got into one college, the really expensive one. Good thing my parents made a lot of money. I don't and my kids would have been screwed.

THIS. A 3.6 is not impressive these days. My son had a similar mismatch between grades and scores and the better schools all passed on him. He got offers from schools where he was in the top 25% of applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP you asked if anyone else is experiencing this situation.
My friend's kid is in the same boat. Well-regarded private school, top stats. His first-choice school only offers regular decision, so he did not apply ED anywhere.

He is still waiting on a couple of schools that I think are near impossible to get into on RD, as they are known to like ED applications.

His mom told me that he might do a gap year. But my concern is that this might be the plan for a lot of kids, and then it gets to be another tough year for everybody.

Your friend should read this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ And to demonstrate their commitment to the test policy, colleges have to accept 30 to 50 percent among the students who did not submit a test score.”

Is this true? It would explain all the deferrals and WLs we are seeing at my DC’s Big3 private. My kid has shown me MANY tik toks of kids getting into T20 schools this year - bragging that they only had an 1100 on the SAT or a 26 ACT and just didn’t submit scores. They have hit the lottery. It is a crazy admissions year.

Let’s see what happens when the 1100 club tries to keep up at a rigorous college.

This is ridiculous. One of the smartest people I know got a 480 on her math SAT (this was 30 years ago). She hates tests and didn't care about doing well on them because she thinks they are ridiculous. She got into a nice SLAC where she did very well because she only took classes that interested her. She went to grad school and also did very well. SATs do not measure intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Demonstrating commitment" is total BS. Even a job does not require this and it provides a livelihood. The college admission is racketeering.

Guys, you are all understandably frustrated and embittered, but using hyperbole like "racketeering" is not helpful and also untrue. The colleges are doing their best in a difficult situation. And let's face it, for the most part we are speaking of 50-100 of the 3,000 colleges in the US, so maybe that is the issue?

I will simply ask this: what could the colleges do that would make it better for everyone?

Exactly this. There is a guide to the top 386 colleges - get that and look at numbers 101 through 300. These are all accredited schools where anyone can learn a lot. Yes, your kid may have a smaller peer group of advanced students, but your child will have plenty of resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Demonstrating commitment" is total BS. Even a job does not require this and it provides a livelihood. The college admission is racketeering.

Guys, you are all understandably frustrated and embittered, but using hyperbole like "racketeering" is not helpful and also untrue. The colleges are doing their best in a difficult situation. And let's face it, for the most part we are speaking of 50-100 of the 3,000 colleges in the US, so maybe that is the issue?

I will simply ask this: what could the colleges do that would make it better for everyone?

Use their funding streams to massively increase capacity instead of installing gold-plated swimming pools?

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. Pejorative hyperbole without any facts. “Massively increase capacity” like all that takes is diverting the cost of a “gold-plated swimming pool” to a different budget line. Total nonsense.

How about a practical, adult conversation, with practical, adult suggestions?

Ok. Practically, adultly massively increase capacity? Seriously - there is no reason why "elite" institutions should accept so few candidates. They clearly get more applicants who meet their standards than they can accept. There's no reason to assume that accepting more students would drive down the quality of education they can provide, and the cost per student would go down.

Yes, but it is a painful process to expand. Look at Lehigh’s experience - their acceptance rate rose from 22% a few years ago to 49% for last year’s class. All because they added a College of Health and are growing the student population by 1,000 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - is schooling in your spouse's foreign country an option?

We are in a similar boat in which I am Asian American and my spouse is from the EU. We are planning on sending children to my spouse's alma mater unless DC gets merit aid from a top choice in the US. We figured this is a good option especially since professional schooling in the US requires a bachelor's first.

Congratulate your son on his likely - he can always go to his likely (or a CC) and transfer but know that hard work and perseverance will pay off in the end.

OP- I also think that if your son takes time off, to perhaps work on finding an academic focus. I used to do college interviews for my alma mater -- a top college that is talked about frequently here. When I think back at students who interviewed with very little career direction versus those who had crafted a nice path that coincided with some of the strengths of my school, it made a difference in how I viewed that student. I said to myself "this is a top college that this student is interviewing with. Could this student come in on day one and fit in/contribute to the conversation?" To make sure that I wasn't too harsh, I had shared my experience generically with a few select alumni at an outing (student name withheld). Oddly enough, they were more harsh than I was. And these were alum who went to the same caliber of top level grad schools (top 10). So I think we pretty much held the same approach to what type of students should get the nod. It wasn't just smarts and top numbers that impressed because many students had that. We wanted the story.

I am sure the same comes across in admissions essays where the student will have to state why they want to attend that school. Emory's stats and reputation have really increased over time. I think that it's hard to go in undecided or without a path of some sort or another, into a top school these days.

Some colleges will care less about career/major direction etc. But others will care because they force the student to apply to one of the divisions/departments for admissions. If you don't get into the division, you usually don't get into that college.We experienced that and it was a tough learning.

Having said all of that, again, I really wish you the best of luck. Your son will find a good path forward. And thanks for sharing so that others can learn.

Truly genuine question – no snark intended-Is English your second language? If so, great post. If not, you are a horrific writer/thinker (but really truly not, if English is your second language.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - is schooling in your spouse's foreign country an option?

We are in a similar boat in which I am Asian American and my spouse is from the EU. We are planning on sending children to my spouse's alma mater unless DC gets merit aid from a top choice in the US. We figured this is a good option especially since professional schooling in the US requires a bachelor's first.

Congratulate your son on his likely - he can always go to his likely (or a CC) and transfer but know that hard work and perseverance will pay off in the end.

OP- I also think that if your son takes time off, to perhaps work on finding an academic focus. I used to do college interviews for my alma mater -- a top college that is talked about frequently here. When I think back at students who interviewed with very little career direction versus those who had crafted a nice path that coincided with some of the strengths of my school, it made a difference in how I viewed that student. I said to myself "this is a top college that this student is interviewing with. Could this student come in on day one and fit in/contribute to the conversation?" To make sure that I wasn't too harsh, I had shared my experience generically with a few select alumni at an outing (student name withheld). Oddly enough, they were more harsh than I was. And these were alum who went to the same caliber of top level grad schools (top 10). So I think we pretty much held the same approach to what type of students should get the nod. It wasn't just smarts and top numbers that impressed because many students had that. We wanted the story.

I am sure the same comes across in admissions essays where the student will have to state why they want to attend that school. Emory's stats and reputation have really increased over time. I think that it's hard to go in undecided or without a path of some sort or another, into a top school these days.

Some colleges will care less about career/major direction etc. But others will care because they force the student to apply to one of the divisions/departments for admissions. If you don't get into the division, you usually don't get into that college.We experienced that and it was a tough learning.

Having said all of that, again, I really wish you the best of luck. Your son will find a good path forward. And thanks for sharing so that others can learn.

Truly genuine question – no snark intended-Is English your second language? If so, great post. If not, you are a horrific writer/thinker (but really truly not, if English is your second language.)

Uh oh -quoted the wrong prior post. Sorry. My bad!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you, OP.....read most of first 10 pages, now here...loved the American Exceptionalism questions....

So many themes from the posts resonate: the counselors failing us; wish I had prodded her to take more APs, despite despising history and English; and wish they had not cancelled the SAT she was scheduled for the Saturday 12 hours after lock down started last year(would have made no difference to the pandemic, the numbers in those days were far lower than they are now)....my daughter did Kahn Academy every single day for an hour and a half prepping for three months, because she utterly bombed her first attempt at SAT....then they cancelled the test, schools said they would be test optional, but kids who had good scores from their first try submitted them....I just feel we were doomed from the beginning....our family [grandparents, parents, siblings, cousins all raging about this right now] is super emotional, we've been raging, ranting and crying > 24 hours after finding out she did not get into UVA, after being waitlisted at Tech...W&M will be a hopeless joke. We have to stay in-state due to the VA 529 plan having been paid since birth, and me being low-income. The safeties she's in are safeties for everyone, and she is not excited about them, thanks to the prevalence of snobbiness throughout the DMV that brainwashes so many of these kids to look down on non-elite schools...heck, it's brainwashed me!

That exceptionalism question list was great, because why the hell don't we want a fully-educated country where every single person, without exception, attends college paid for with our tax dollars, and comes out debt-free, ready to serve humanity?

I just constantly see stupid stuff, like removing ALL the native plants in the names of erosion control(?) along the W&OD bike bath in Falls Church, and replacing with monoculture grass: as if all the chickory, purslain, mullein, echinacia, milkweed, etc, wasn't holding erosion at bay ? But more importantly, by providing bee and butterfly corridors with those flowers, we were saving the food supply of the planet...

...but on my bike ride today, I just saw total ecological devastation, replaced by acres and acres of freaking GRASS, and I too, GIVE UP, OP. We are just a stupid country, ignoring obvious ecology 101, because somehow we know better in the name of erosion control or whatever they're doing on the bike path....
I see trees being topped until their deaths, yards with NO TREES, or ONE ornamental tree (final height 5 feet), no flowers for bees that are vanishing faster than I can type this post, and I just think: we are a completely uneducated country and we are doomed, all of us...so what the hell does it matter what college anyone gets into, if we can't see for our nose in front of our face how quickly we are demolishing all the habitats and vanishing all the other species that we are inextricably interlinked with, for our assured mutual survival or destruction?

Because we don't believe in education, and waste so much stupid time watching football and other sports, more and more kids are going to be left out in the cold from college, since the few ivies/state schools cannot possibly educate everyone who needs an education....which means more people will be suceptible to conspiracy theories and more likely to elect demagogues, the next one of whom could be successful at fully ending Democracy in a way that Trump wasn't.

We're stupid Americans, the college process here is stupid, too many smart, caring kids are left in the cold, and because of that, one day we are going to be paying a terrible price, both in the loss of our democracy and the loss of our planet due to consistent ecological destruction, i.e. human made global warming.

Right on, OP, I mourn for your loss. I keep raging and grieving, not sure when it will abate.... but don't sugar-coat it for your son, you both have every right to feel whatever you feel. Thank you so much for starting this thread.....be kind to yourself as best you can for now....

Wow, you need to get a grip on yourself. Your whole family is "raging" about you kid not getting into UVA and your sad because you didn't push your DD harder to take classes she hates? That's ridiculous. It's no wonder your DD is upset. Is this the role model that you want to be? Seriously, you are probably making her feel like she's let the whole family down. Please, try to maintain a little perspective.

+1 yikes. That PP is a crazy mess.

[Anonymous]

Maybe this a good lesson to other parents in the DMV to stop putting so much emphasis on the “elite” colleges. You are setting your kids up to feel like a failure if they don’t get in to o e of the handful of schools that they know you think is acceptable.