How Harvard discriminates against Asian Americans in college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What Asians should do is collectively boycott Harvard for a year or two. There are other Ivy League schools. There are schools like Cal Tech, MIT, UChicago, Stanford, JHU, and SLACs. It's doubtful Harvard can maintain its status for long.

That could potentially bring Harvard down to NYU, NW, WashU, USC, BU, Duke, Rice, Vandy...

It would certainly bring down their average SAT scores.

It really makes laugh that some people denigrate Asian American students for studying too hard, taking prep classes, which all help increase SAT scores, but then these same people like to tout how high their school's test scores are. Newsflash: your test scores wouldn't be as high without those "robotic, test-prepping" Asian American students.

I’m not sure it would necessarily bring down their SAT scores. My underis that they could fill the class several times over with applicants with near perfect scores. Certainly, they are not all Asian. Plenty of other non-Asian kids ( more than enough to fill the class) have perfect scores.

Before you accuse me of being racist, i’m Not saying what is happening is fair. I’m just saying that plenty of non-Asian kids have good scores, too. There is just a large number of Asian kids with good scores so ther percentage is high. Admission to these schools is a crap shoot for everyone and holistic admissions make it even less predictible, but if there is indeed a thumb on the scale against Asian kids, that is not right.

Maybe, but statistically, it's the Asian American students who score the highest. They have a lot of applicants with near perfect scores because many are Asian American. If they left, statistically, those scores would go down.

Agree that asians have the highest score, but have you seen how
Many near perfect students apply? I think they could still fill a class without Asian students. I don’t have raw numbers so if you do, i’m Happy to stand corrected. No doubt that more Asians have high scores. I just think the class is so small compared to the number of applicants, that it could hypothetically be filled by perfect or near perfect students of other races.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does this study look at all at the majors applicants have expressed an interest in, with a racial breakdown?

It might shed some light to know whether the numbers of applicants interested in various majors when broken down into racial categories is the same across the board or if it varies greatly.

Anyone have any information on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:low personality scores? That's gotta be one of the most racist factors, ever. Yet, somehow it's OK to tolerate this-- Asians are the victims of discrimination the same way Catholics are bashed on this site. Not acceptable. I'm not Asian.

I am Chinese-American. Group averages tell you nothing about an individual in the group. If you believe that Asian-American applicants to Harvard on average are smarter than other races/ethnic groups (because of SAT and GPA), why is it unreasonable to think on average they might also have lower personality scores (based on recommendations, interviews, and supplemental essays)? According to the Harvard lawsuit data, Asian-Americans were less likely than every other group to be in extracurricular activities besides math/science clubs and musical instruments. Playing an instrument and the math team develop many skills, but not the same ones as student government, team sports, or the school paper. It's not "Asian culture," because there are plenty of Asians in Asia who know how to do something other than being a math/science geek. But, some immigrant American subcultures value, foster and reinforce certain narrow personal behaviors. Those characteristics may be positive (hard work, grit, determination) but they could also be negative too (bowl haircuts, suicide).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:low personality scores? That's gotta be one of the most racist factors, ever. Yet, somehow it's OK to tolerate this-- Asians are the victims of discrimination the same way Catholics are bashed on this site. Not acceptable. I'm not Asian.

I am Chinese-American. Group averages tell you nothing about an individual in the group. If you believe that Asian-American applicants to Harvard on average are smarter than other races/ethnic groups (because of SAT and GPA), why is it unreasonable to think on average they might also have lower personality scores (based on recommendations, interviews, and supplemental essays)? According to the Harvard lawsuit data, Asian-Americans were less likely than every other group to be in extracurricular activities besides math/science clubs and musical instruments. Playing an instrument and the math team develop many skills, but not the same ones as student government, team sports, or the school paper. It's not "Asian culture," because there are plenty of Asians in Asia who know how to do something other than being a math/science geek. But, some immigrant American subcultures value, foster and reinforce certain narrow personal behaviors. Those characteristics may be positive (hard work, grit, determination) but they could also be negative too (bowl haircuts, suicide).

Bowl haircuts = suicide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:low personality scores? That's gotta be one of the most racist factors, ever. Yet, somehow it's OK to tolerate this-- Asians are the victims of discrimination the same way Catholics are bashed on this site. Not acceptable. I'm not Asian.

I am Chinese-American. Group averages tell you nothing about an individual in the group. If you believe that Asian-American applicants to Harvard on average are smarter than other races/ethnic groups (because of SAT and GPA), why is it unreasonable to think on average they might also have lower personality scores (based on recommendations, interviews, and supplemental essays)? According to the Harvard lawsuit data, Asian-Americans were less likely than every other group to be in extracurricular activities besides math/science clubs and musical instruments. Playing an instrument and the math team develop many skills, but not the same ones as student government, team sports, or the school paper. It's not "Asian culture," because there are plenty of Asians in Asia who know how to do something other than being a math/science geek. But, some immigrant American subcultures value, foster and reinforce certain narrow personal behaviors. Those characteristics may be positive (hard work, grit, determination) but they could also be negative too (bowl haircuts, suicide).

Bowl haircuts = suicide?

That’s not what the poster said and you know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:low personality scores? That's gotta be one of the most racist factors, ever. Yet, somehow it's OK to tolerate this-- Asians are the victims of discrimination the same way Catholics are bashed on this site. Not acceptable. I'm not Asian.

I am Chinese-American. Group averages tell you nothing about an individual in the group. If you believe that Asian-American applicants to Harvard on average are smarter than other races/ethnic groups (because of SAT and GPA), why is it unreasonable to think on average they might also have lower personality scores (based on recommendations, interviews, and supplemental essays)? According to the Harvard lawsuit data, Asian-Americans were less likely than every other group to be in extracurricular activities besides math/science clubs and musical instruments. Playing an instrument and the math team develop many skills, but not the same ones as student government, team sports, or the school paper. It's not "Asian culture," because there are plenty of Asians in Asia who know how to do something other than being a math/science geek. But, some immigrant American subcultures value, foster and reinforce certain narrow personal behaviors. Those characteristics may be positive (hard work, grit, determination) but they could also be negative too (bowl haircuts, suicide).

Bowl haircuts = suicide?

That’s not what the poster said and you know it.

Just seemed funny to place those two together

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:low personality scores? That's gotta be one of the most racist factors, ever. Yet, somehow it's OK to tolerate this-- Asians are the victims of discrimination the same way Catholics are bashed on this site. Not acceptable. I'm not Asian.

Personality scores are determined through the interview. That's why students are interviewed. I think it's a fair metric. You can't just go by test scores to admit an entire class. Life is based on personal interaction...not a number.

[Anonymous]

If you look at student stated 1's in each category - the best of the best- you can easily see that personality is NOT a big factor in terms of numbers of admitted students:

Candidates who Excel on One Dimension and acceptance rate at Harvard:
1. Academic rating of 1, no other 1s 663 68%
2. Extracurricular rating of 1, no other 1s 453 48%
3. Personal rating of 1, no other 1s 41 66%
4. Athletic rating of 1, no other 1s 1,340 88%

41 students vs 1,340 students. And if your look at numbers
admitted you best chance is to rank high in athletics.
66% of 41 is 25
88% of 1,340 is 1172.
So 25 students entered because of their amazing personality vs. 1172 admitted vs their amazing athletic ability.
I would guess the 25 admitted students with amazing personality might be famous actors, been really national newsworthy, YouTube sensation, etc. something that clearly sets them apart.

What is the percentage of student athletes at Harvard who are of Asian-American decent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:low personality scores? That's gotta be one of the most racist factors, ever. Yet, somehow it's OK to tolerate this-- Asians are the victims of discrimination the same way Catholics are bashed on this site. Not acceptable. I'm not Asian.

Personality scores are determined through the interview. That's why students are interviewed. I think it's a fair metric. You can't just go by test scores to admit an entire class. Life is based on personal interaction...not a number.

Appears that the interview scores are higher than what admissions used,so not personal interaction at all. These are kids that will be successful anyway, but, the racial markdown is not at all OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What Asians should do is collectively boycott Harvard for a year or two. There are other Ivy League schools. There are schools like Cal Tech, MIT, UChicago, Stanford, JHU, and SLACs. It's doubtful Harvard can maintain its status for long.

That could potentially bring Harvard down to NYU, NW, WashU, USC, BU, Duke, Rice, Vandy...

It would certainly bring down their average SAT scores.

It really makes laugh that some people denigrate Asian American students for studying too hard, taking prep classes, which all help increase SAT scores, but then these same people like to tout how high their school's test scores are. Newsflash: your test scores wouldn't be as high without those "robotic, test-prepping" Asian American students.

I’m not sure it would necessarily bring down their SAT scores. My underis that they could fill the class several times over with applicants with near perfect scores. Certainly, they are not all Asian. Plenty of other non-Asian kids ( more than enough to fill the class) have perfect scores.

Before you accuse me of being racist, i’m Not saying what is happening is fair. I’m just saying that plenty of non-Asian kids have good scores, too. There is just a large number of Asian kids with good scores so ther percentage is high. Admission to these schools is a crap shoot for everyone and holistic admissions make it even less predictible, but if there is indeed a thumb on the scale against Asian kids, that is not right.

Maybe, but statistically, it's the Asian American students who score the highest. They have a lot of applicants with near perfect scores because many are Asian American. If they left, statistically, those scores would go down.

Agree that asians have the highest score, but have you seen how
Many near perfect students apply? I think they could still fill a class without Asian students. I don’t have raw numbers so if you do, i’m Happy to stand corrected. No doubt that more Asians have high scores. I just think the class is so small compared to the number of applicants, that it could hypothetically be filled by perfect or near perfect students of other races.

Well, Harvard will never release those numbers, so we can only go by what we know. Based on those numbers in the chart, if there were no Asian Americans at Harvard or applying there, the SAT scores would drop.

[Anonymous]

I went to a very Asian HS. The grades and scores they get are to be taken with a grain of salt. Many Chinese go to "Cram School" . Parents actually would request next year's text books early and they would go to a Cram school 40 hours a week all summer learning mextd years material.

The white, black and Hispanic kids enjoyed summer. No Cram school.

So is a 98 worth more than a 96 if the 96 did no Cram school? Well no one will confess to Cram school but in personality assessment it kinda shows up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a very Asian HS. The grades and scores they get are to be taken with a grain of salt. Many Chinese go to "Cram School" . Parents actually would request next year's text books early and they would go to a Cram school 40 hours a week all summer learning mextd years material.

The white, black and Hispanic kids enjoyed summer. No Cram school.

So is a 98 worth more than a 96 if the 96 did no Cram school? Well no one will confess to Cram school but in personality assessment it kinda shows up.

How would a child like that get through college when mommy and daddy aren't there to get the material and help them cram? They must, I assume, but it must be hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a very Asian HS. The grades and scores they get are to be taken with a grain of salt. Many Chinese go to "Cram School" . Parents actually would request next year's text books early and they would go to a Cram school 40 hours a week all summer learning mextd years material.

The white, black and Hispanic kids enjoyed summer. No Cram school.

So is a 98 worth more than a 96 if the 96 did no Cram school? Well no one will confess to Cram school but in personality assessment it kinda shows up.

But...but...hard work is a positive personality trait!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a very Asian HS. The grades and scores they get are to be taken with a grain of salt. Many Chinese go to "Cram School" . Parents actually would request next year's text books early and they would go to a Cram school 40 hours a week all summer learning mextd years material.

The white, black and Hispanic kids enjoyed summer. No Cram school.

So is a 98 worth more than a 96 if the 96 did no Cram school? Well no one will confess to Cram school but in personality assessment it kinda shows up.

But...but...hard work is a positive personality trait!

It is. Would you rather work with lazy people ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a very Asian HS. The grades and scores they get are to be taken with a grain of salt. Many Chinese go to "Cram School" . Parents actually would request next year's text books early and they would go to a Cram school 40 hours a week all summer learning mextd years material.

The white, black and Hispanic kids enjoyed summer. No Cram school.

So is a 98 worth more than a 96 if the 96 did no Cram school? Well no one will confess to Cram school but in personality assessment it kinda shows up.

How would a child like that get through college when mommy and daddy aren't there to get the material and help them cram? They must, I assume, but it must be hard.

No, they have learned how to study and are not opposed to hard work, they just continue on as they have been. It is usually the high IQ kid who never worked in HS who struggles in college.