UVA info session today said “most rigorous in ALL 5 core subjects.”

[Anonymous]

States that pass the laws don't have to appropriate. The schools can find the money if they have no other choice

That's just bad governance. Would you run your household the same way?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.

I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.

DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.

It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.

UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.

Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.

There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???

Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.

17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.

For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.

The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.

UVA shouldn't lower the bar. But it should follow CA and Texas and UNC and lower the percentage of OSS

The state legislature won't pay for it or mandate it. There was a time when reps would propose bills about it year after year, but they'd joke about knowing the bills would fail in appropriations. They just proposed them to appease constituents who believe the "I'm fighting for you" message without any follow through on why the bills didn't pass.

States that pass the laws don't have to appropriate. The schools can find the money if they have no other choice

Guess how a college would "find" the money to fulfill an un-funded mandate. Guess. Please.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.

Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.

So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.

Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.

So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.

Why are they 2 period classes? Not true at my DC’s school. Granted it is private and they are on a block schedule. Are public schools not on a block schedule? Maybe that is where you should focus your advocacy. Reduces nightly homework and increases class time when you only have 4 classes a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.

Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.

So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.

Labs work fine in 1-period classes. The double period thing is an arbitrary rule in some districts.
What are double period classes doing on all the days that don't have labs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.

Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.

So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.

I am familiar. My junior is in double blocked AP chemistry currently. She is unfortunately not able to take French this year because there is no teacher available, but if there were, she would have room for it, plus AP Calc, AP English Lang and AP US History.

Now if you’re talking about taking AP chem and bio concurrently? That would be tricky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.

Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.

So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.

Labs work fine in 1-period classes. The double period thing is an arbitrary rule in some districts.
What are double period classes doing on all the days that don't have labs?

Private school, no blocked schedule, no double periods, kids can and do take two AP sciences and art and Foreign language and the other cores. They often have to study on weekends for the hardest AP’s such as Chem and PhysicsC because they get far behind if not, and the problem sets are long. This school sends a large percentage to top 25s. They are well prepared and know how to work efficiently

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.

I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.

DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.

It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.

UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.

Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.

There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???

Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.

17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.

For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.

The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.

We’re not talking about lowering the bar, we’re talking about those kids with genuinely stellar profiles who still get rejected or waitlisted. There have been hundreds of posts and comments on this site of kids meeting that description over the years. One of my comments above was in response to a parent saying their kid and many others at the school are all top students but they all know they won’t all get in, and people in NOVA “know” it’s a crapshoot. Why? If you can get the grades and scores in hard enough classes it shouldn’t be so uncertain.

Who cares what T25 privates do? It’s a public school. With much lower in-state acceptance rates than places like UNC and Michigan.

Just because there is grade inflation and loads of kids have 3.9-4.0uw and “lots” of APs (5-6 when dozens at the top have 9-11) and over 1450 does not mean they all deserve UVa. UVa takes from the top 10 or sometimes 15% in these nova publics, based on rigor more often than straight rank. That is PLENTY from one school. Other publics get only around 5% in, because they are not quite as good of a high school as far as preparedness and likely SATs /APs. Privates often see UVA acceptance for the top 20-25%. Because these schools have better preparedness and higher scores relative to the top 25% at nova publics. The grade inflation is what makes all these parents think their kids are ready for UVa. They are not. It is not a crap shoot. The best kids from each high school get in. Some hooked kids get in over unhooked but UVA is not unique in this practice. UVA has no obligation to let more in. The size is already too big for many. If anything they should cut it back down to below 15k so it could function more similar to an ivy. Maybe more ivy-bound would stay in state? Though if Virginians with high 1400s-1500 scores and piles of APs want an ivy feel they have William&Mary, so UVA does fill that bigger sportsy school need that WM cant.

[Anonymous]

Does UVA prefer APUSH or the IB equivalent IB HOA HL?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.

I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.

DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.

It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.

UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.

Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.

There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???

Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.

17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.

For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.

The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.

We’re not talking about lowering the bar, we’re talking about those kids with genuinely stellar profiles who still get rejected or waitlisted. There have been hundreds of posts and comments on this site of kids meeting that description over the years. One of my comments above was in response to a parent saying their kid and many others at the school are all top students but they all know they won’t all get in, and people in NOVA “know” it’s a crapshoot. Why? If you can get the grades and scores in hard enough classes it shouldn’t be so uncertain.

Who cares what T25 privates do? It’s a public school. With much lower in-state acceptance rates than places like UNC and Michigan.

Just because there is grade inflation and loads of kids have 3.9-4.0uw and “lots” of APs (5-6 when dozens at the top have 9-11) and over 1450 does not mean they all deserve UVa. UVa takes from the top 10 or sometimes 15% in these nova publics, based on rigor more often than straight rank. That is PLENTY from one school. Other publics get only around 5% in, because they are not quite as good of a high school as far as preparedness and likely SATs /APs. Privates often see UVA acceptance for the top 20-25%. Because these schools have better preparedness and higher scores relative to the top 25% at nova publics. The grade inflation is what makes all these parents think their kids are ready for UVa. They are not. It is not a crap shoot. The best kids from each high school get in. Some hooked kids get in over unhooked but UVA is not unique in this practice. UVA has no obligation to let more in. The size is already too big for many. If anything they should cut it back down to below 15k so it could function more similar to an ivy. Maybe more ivy-bound would stay in state? Though if Virginians with high 1400s-1500 scores and piles of APs want an ivy feel they have William&Mary, so UVA does fill that bigger sportsy school need that WM cant.

Lol a state university (and, yes, the flagship) should cut down in size to be more like an ivy. Completely lost the plot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does UVA prefer APUSH or the IB equivalent IB HOA HL?

Some IB kids take APUSH sophomore year so they can do both. UVA is widely believed to have a monomaniacal obsession with APUSH.

[Anonymous]

Top kids will take

AP Lang&Comp and AP Lit

APUSH, AP World, AP Euro, AP Gov

AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics C

AP Calc BC, AP Stats

That is the proven formula for top colleges. Any reasonably strong student will have take these core AP classes, no matter their intended major.

[Anonymous]

PLENTY I know have gotten in to UVA with AP calc AB. Sorry. And I wouldn't advise skipping AB if took AP Precalc.

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.

I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.

DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.

It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.

UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.

Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.

There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???

Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.

17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.

For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.

The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.

UVA shouldn't lower the bar. But it should follow CA and Texas and UNC and lower the percentage of OSS

The state legislature won't pay for it or mandate it. There was a time when reps would propose bills about it year after year, but they'd joke about knowing the bills would fail in appropriations. They just proposed them to appease constituents who believe the "I'm fighting for you" message without any follow through on why the bills didn't pass.

States that pass the laws don't have to appropriate. The schools can find the money if they have no other choice

Guess how a college would "find" the money to fulfill an un-funded mandate. Guess. Please.

A bloated administration would be a good place to start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top kids will take

AP Lang&Comp and AP Lit

APUSH, AP World, AP Euro, AP Gov

AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics C

AP Calc BC, AP Stats

That is the proven formula for top colleges. Any reasonably strong student will have take these core AP classes, no matter their intended major.

My kid is at a T10 without AP Lang/Lit, without a fourth level of foreign language, without AP Bio or Chem, without AP World or Gov. And he is not alone.