UVA info session today said “most rigorous in ALL 5 core subjects.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

He very well might still get in. Our first year stopped language after year 4 for AP Computer Science classes plus the AP sciences, BC calc and then calc 3. Engineering school. Stay positive!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

no, but UVA Aos may

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.

I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.

DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.

It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.

UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.

Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.

There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???

Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.

17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.

For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.

The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.

UVA shouldn't lower the bar. But it should follow CA and Texas and UNC and lower the percentage of OSS

+2 UVA is 65% in state. Compare this to the in state populations at popular flagships: UNC 82%; UCs 80%; UT Austin 90%; UGA 80%; U Florida 83%.

More like 68% in state for UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.

[Anonymous]

Random thoughts

In order to maintain their levels of prestige, generally, the more prestigious state flagships either need (1) to accept some portion of high-stat OOS students or (2) to be so small, proportionally, that they can only accept the very top students in the state to cultivate that reputation. By its very nature, a large public university typically only has so many top students to choose from in-state, some of whom may choose to enroll at top privates elsewhere. On top of that, the university may be trying to balance the academic stats of other students who are institutional priorities, such as athletes and various disadvantaged groups.

Is VA so different from other states, that there is an overabundance, more high-stat students than it has room for? I would not rule out the possibility, though that seems like an arrogant approach.
 
Where this gets fuzzy is (1) identifying top students and (2) the use of yield algorithms. With regard to yield, as a public institution, UVA should find a way to accept as many top in-state students as it can, rather than denying those who seem unlikely to attend.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.

I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.

DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.

It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.

UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.

Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.

There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???

Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.

17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.

For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.

The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.

UVA shouldn't lower the bar. But it should follow CA and Texas and UNC and lower the percentage of OSS

The state legislature won't pay for it or mandate it. There was a time when reps would propose bills about it year after year, but they'd joke about knowing the bills would fail in appropriations. They just proposed them to appease constituents who believe the "I'm fighting for you" message without any follow through on why the bills didn't pass.

[Anonymous]

Your kid should apply as a transfer student - as long as they have the grades, it's very easy to transfer sophomore or junior year.
I see it over and over again in my Arlington circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

I hated math and science, but I had to take those classes every year. Loved English, History, and foreign language and managed to fit them in each year, too.

These top schools aren't asking kids to do something extraordinary. Just take a broad slate of classes.

When they get to college, they have to do gen eds before they can do whatever they want. If they only want to do what interests them, there are vocational programs and certificates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

I hated math and science, but I had to take those classes every year. Loved English, History, and foreign language and managed to fit them in each year, too.

These top schools aren't asking kids to do something extraordinary. Just take a broad slate of classes.

When they get to college, they have to do gen eds before they can do whatever they want. If they only want to do what interests them, there are vocational programs and certificates.

It’s silly to say that a kid isn’t getting a broad education if they don’t take *one less* core class senior year. And to jump to your last sentence is ridiculous.
(PP with kid at UVA who stopped FL after year 4 but took all APs in other subjects with 4s and 5s…still very broad lol)

[Anonymous]

Typo - if they take one less core class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.

This. The expectation is that they excel in all core subjects. That means multiple AP science classes and and AP language. It's one of the reasons that PE and personal finance get taken over the summer to free up elective spots

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

MIT is private with a hige admissions office to process applications and can do what it wants and doesn't publish the criteria as UVA but wants the very top students too! UVA is public with a limited admussions office and still processes 50k applications a year. It needs to be more transparent because it is a public and reports to SCHEV. Virginua schools are very transparent which is much better than UCLA's "who the hell knows". and there arenany other options to public in VA. There is only ine MIT. apples and oranges. UVA has a public mission

You're right - UVA isn't a private institution. They are public, and they seem to be making it incredibly hard to get accepted for no particular reason. Make it exclusive by all means! But there are other measures of potential success besides all AP's and straight A's. But it's fine - let's see what happens when they cram their school with stressed out kids who are barely holding on to their mental health.

You're missing the point. Every state has its own public system. Some great; most not. They all developed differently but have the same goal: how best to serve its populace with the amount of funds the state is willing to dedicate towards it. (yes UVA receives only 6% of its funding now from the Commonwealth). The four largest systems, and tge ones tgat are most popukar as OOS destinations, California, VA, Michigan and Texas, have different structures and criteria to meet this goal: Texas admits using bright light formula - you must graduate in the top ten percent of your Texas public or private high school. Less than 10% are OOS (it's not a perfect plan but at least Texans know the rules); Michigan is standard wholustic review but takes 48% OOS; UVA is standard wholistic with high regard for the five core subjects and wants to see applicants have taken advantage of what the high school has to offer to offer; UCLA and Berkeley have dropped grades and tests so is now a free-for-all with no one knowing what gets you in but heavy emphasis on URM and first-generation. It's OOS is less than 10%. Each system operates differently. I would ratger be a parent in VA with its thirty pulblic options and having facts and fingers at my hand through SCHEV than the harsh Texas rule. I woukd not want to be a Californian and have left as a result.

UVA is a competitor for the top students in the US. I don't see them as highly stressed. That woukd be W&M and Cornell, MIT and other schools with high suicide rates.

And OOS parents complaining about in-state policies that are being funded by Virginians is the most entitled attitude I've seen here in a long time. You want an Ivy's reputation but at the lesser OOS rate! Go elsewhere! Pay $90k for private! Go to your own publics! Start a better in-state system in your own state.

UVA hasn't tracked or reported suicides so you would never know its "rate". It is the schools that do report that get labeled, often unfairly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."

Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."

OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.

If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.

NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.

You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.

I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?

I hated math and science, but I had to take those classes every year. Loved English, History, and foreign language and managed to fit them in each year, too.

These top schools aren't asking kids to do something extraordinary. Just take a broad slate of classes.

When they get to college, they have to do gen eds before they can do whatever they want. If they only want to do what interests them, there are vocational programs and certificates.

It’s silly to say that a kid isn’t getting a broad education if they don’t take *one less* core class senior year. And to jump to your last sentence is ridiculous.
(PP with kid at UVA who stopped FL after year 4 but took all APs in other subjects with 4s and 5s…still very broad lol)

I was more responding to the idea that kids should be taking the courses in their areas of interest and not expected to do other things.

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Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.

You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.

Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.

And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.

If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.

You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.

No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.

I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.

DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.

It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.

UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.

Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.

There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???

Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.

17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.

For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.

The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.

UVA shouldn't lower the bar. But it should follow CA and Texas and UNC and lower the percentage of OSS

The state legislature won't pay for it or mandate it. There was a time when reps would propose bills about it year after year, but they'd joke about knowing the bills would fail in appropriations. They just proposed them to appease constituents who believe the "I'm fighting for you" message without any follow through on why the bills didn't pass.

States that pass the laws don't have to appropriate. The schools can find the money if they have no other choice

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Regardless of what the AOs say, there are plenty of examples of students who don't take the highest rigor in all 5 cores and are still admitted to UVA. It's not a requirement, not the bright-line rule that would help students (1) decide whether to apply and (2) what to take in high school.