On the talk yesterday, Dean J bent over backwards saying that SAT was such a small piece of their review. Does that bear (bare? - mind freeze) out in statistics?
She was even saying there was no difference in OOS SAT and in state SAT.
Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:On the talk yesterday, Dean J bent over backwards saying that SAT was such a small piece of their review. Does that bear (bare? - mind freeze) out in statistics?
She was even saying there was no difference in OOS SAT and in state SAT.
Thoughts?
My first thought is that you might want to start a new thread on this topic.
These seem close enough to me. I was ready to criticize DeanJ's statement on OOS vs in-state, but it's fair enough.
The level of weight SAT scores receive in the review is another question that's much harder to answer. I'd look to reported ranges year over year along with percent submitting.
Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."
Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."
OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.
If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.
NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.
You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.
I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?
In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.
Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.
So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.
In our public HS with block scheduling (A/B days) AP sciences are not 2 blocks. LCPS.
They are 2 periods in the blocked schedule in Arlington.
My DC started Spanish 1 in 10h grade and only took 3 years of language (no AP) Took 4 years of Science, English and Math. Had more than 4 Social studies (AP Econ)
Was admitted in-state to UVA, but chose to attend Stanford.
Anonymous wrote:On the talk yesterday, Dean J bent over backwards saying that SAT was such a small piece of their review. Does that bear (bare? - mind freeze) out in statistics?
She was even saying there was no difference in OOS SAT and in state SAT.
Thoughts?
My first thought is that you might want to start a new thread on this topic.
These seem close enough to me. I was ready to criticize DeanJ's statement on OOS vs in-state, but it's fair enough.
The level of weight SAT scores receive in the review is another question that's much harder to answer. I'd look to reported ranges year over year along with percent submitting.
Oh nice!
I was looking for that info in schev but couldn't find that drilldown
Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."
Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."
OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.
If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.
NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.
You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.
I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?
In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.
Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.
So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.
Why are they 2 period classes? Not true at my DC’s school. Granted it is private and they are on a block schedule. Are public schools not on a block schedule? Maybe that is where you should focus your advocacy. Reduces nightly homework and increases class time when you only have 4 classes a day.
Public school, block schedule, 2 period AP sciences
That’s wild. My kid’s public is block, they take 3 classes a day plus lunch. I can’t imagine a science class taking a full half day. It prevents students from taking other courses as well!
Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."
Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."
OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.
If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.
NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.
You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.
I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?
In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.
Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.
So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.
Why are they 2 period classes? Not true at my DC’s school. Granted it is private and they are on a block schedule. Are public schools not on a block schedule? Maybe that is where you should focus your advocacy. Reduces nightly homework and increases class time when you only have 4 classes a day.
Public school, block schedule, 2 period AP sciences
That’s wild. My kid’s public is block, they take 3 classes a day plus lunch. I can’t imagine a science class taking a full half day. It prevents students from taking other courses as well!
DP. Mine is in public with block scheduling, but they have 4 classes a day. The double blocked courses are not two periods, they just meet every day.
Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.
You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.
Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.
And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.
If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.
You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.
No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.
I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.
DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.
It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.
UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.
Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.
There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???
Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.
17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.
For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.
The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.
You said this as if Emory was the easiest T25 private to get into. Pretty sure that belongs to Notre Dame.
Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."
Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."
OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.
If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.
NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.
You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.
I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?
In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.
Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.
So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.
In our public HS with block scheduling (A/B days) AP sciences are not 2 blocks. LCPS.
They are 2 periods in the blocked schedule in Arlington.
Not at all the HS in Arlington - it varies, which makes no sense
Anonymous wrote:"Our admissions process at UVa is a holistic one."
Translation: we'll do whatever the heck we want and change the rules whenever we see fit to do so."
OP here. Yeah this is how it felt. We asked if it would be looked down upon to forgo AP foreign language to instead take a second AP science (child’s interest) and were basically told yes but we were welcome to try to explain it. But the woman was about 25 and didn’t even go to UVA so I was wondering if she even actually knew. I’ve definitely heard/read of unhooked students going to UVA without AP foreign language.
If UVA looks down on that, then your kid should go to another school.
NP here, we were told basically the same thing. My STEMMY kid decided to forego more language in order to take AP science and math classes, even though that means UVA will likely snub him. I guess it's easy for someone else to just say oh just go to another school, but we live in UVA, it's our state flagship, it has great programs that he's interested in, and we would really like to take advantage of our state's flagship or at least have the chance to and not be shut out by some arbitrary criteria that seems unfair to kids with different interests.
You know what you need to do to get into UVA. Your DC made a choice. There is a lot of time to take more math and science in college. High school is not for specializing, according to UVA. It isn’t unfair, you just don’t like it.
I think it's strange to basically force kids to take a class in an area of non interest when it means foreging classes in areas of interest. I disagree that you should wait until college to take those classes. Of course you specialize further in college, but high school is for developing interests to decide what you want in college. A lot of colleges require you to apply to a specific major. So... what if a kid is interested in majoring in Chemistry or Biology? You really think they shouldn't take AP Chem or AP Bio so they can take French?
In most cases, there’s no reason they can’t do both.
Are you familiar with these classes? It sounds like you are not. AP Chem and AP Bio both have labs so they are two period classes. For my kid that means he cannot take both AP Chem and Spanish. Not enough room in the schedule.
So again this arbitrary rule hits the STEM kids harder. It wasn't an issue for my other kid who was more humanities focused.
Why are they 2 period classes? Not true at my DC’s school. Granted it is private and they are on a block schedule. Are public schools not on a block schedule? Maybe that is where you should focus your advocacy. Reduces nightly homework and increases class time when you only have 4 classes a day.
Public school, block schedule, 2 period AP sciences
That’s wild. My kid’s public is block, they take 3 classes a day plus lunch. I can’t imagine a science class taking a full half day. It prevents students from taking other courses as well!
DP. Mine is in public with block scheduling, but they have 4 classes a day. The double blocked courses are not two periods, they just meet every day.
Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing this thread pop up and every time I can't help but think who the hell does UVA think they are? You are a state school in a podunk town with a mediocre football team - basically a virgin who can't drive. AP's in all five or you're not good enough for us? Ok! I will make my way to all of the other amazing state schools in VA and not even apply to your boring, overrated school. Sit and spin, UVA.
You have to be a kid. Have a hard time imagining an adult taking their time to write this. Appreciate the amusement though.
Come on. No one has said "sit and spin" since the 80's. I'm obviously Gen-X. With a really smart kid, accomplished kid who couldn't care less about UVA. I'm just saying...there are some very twisted pairs of undies out there for a school that is not all that. Does Harvard deserve a wedgie? Probably. Yale? Likely. UVA? Absolutely not.
And one more thing...if you live in Virginia, your tax dollars are supporting UVA. Every kid should have a shot at being accepted at a state school their tax dollars support. Even the ones who don't take five AP's and get all A's at the risk of losing their sanity. What about the kid who made wise choices about their course load because they love their sport and they work part-time and value being a human being on the weekends instead of spending hours and hours on homework, test prep, tutoring? That kid is trash to UVA. Think about it.
If that kid is so desirous of attending UVA but unwilling to put in the necessary effort in HS, they can go to their community college for two years, get good grades and apply as a transfer student.
You're missing the point. Why is this crazy criteria the necessary effort for UVA? As previously noted, there are elite colleges (i.e., MIT) that have more reasonable admissions criteria. I'm not sure what UVA is trying to prove by being so sadistic. And I find it hard to believe that you can only be successful at UVA if you practically kill yourself with academics in high school.
No, you are missing the point. If a kid wants to attend a highly selective college such as UVA, the kid is competing for admission with the very top students in the state and others from across the country, and needs to plan and achieve accordingly. If the kid doesn’t want to do that, no problem, but then don’t expect to be admitted in the place of a kid who did. Many classes, students, activities at UVA are crazy competitive even after being admitted and attending so chances are a kid who didn’t want to work too hard in HS will be miserable and/or struggle there even if admitted.
I know a kid who is working his tail off in HS, is making good grades, has a few AP's, and is a great student with amazing work ethic and EC's. His counselor is saying UVA isn't an option so he shouldn't apply. In his home state. The parents went to UVA. That doesn't seem off to you? And before everyone turns around and says, "He should apply!" Go back to title of this thread and read what AO's are saying.
DP. That doesn’t seem off to me. My husband and I both went to UVA. So didn’t the parents of a handful of other top students at my junior’s high school. They’re all taking essentially the same AP-heavy course load. They won’t all get in. It’s fine. If ours doesn’t, she’ll go elsewhere.
It seems like UVA could solve this problem by admitting a few hundred more VA kids a year. Plan for a small increase in size, add the kids, the quality doesn’t decline (they are all top), in-state admission rate and number goes up, residents are happy (until others start complaining), and so on. Not unreasonable for a public university, and an expensive one at that.
UVA added 1000 first years in the last decade. They've built new dorms, but the first year areas are full.
Seems like they could figure out how to add another 100-200 then with some basic planning.
There will always be hundreds, probably thousands, of students and parents every year who think - occasionally justifiably - that they should have been admitted. No one will ever be satisfied and what’s UVA supposed to do - increase the undergrad student population by thousands (if this is even possible given space and financial constraints and the desires of Charlottesville) resulting in a UVA that is no longer the UVA these people want to attend???
Well if all of these kids are as good as people are claiming, then yeah. If there are VA kids with genuinely top stats, rigor, etc., that are getting rejected, then yeah. UVA is small for a “flagship” and its in-state acceptance rate is middling for a top public. Seems weird to take a stance that it’s the absolute perfect size as is.
17k undergraduates is small?? My top rigor and stats kid finds the size just right. Many good options in VA.
For a large public, yes. But we’re not talking about making it big, just adding enough in-state seats to accommodate really strong in-state kids that are otherwise getting rejected. So going from 17k to, say, 18k.
The strongest get in. The bar in state for uva is lower than it takes to get into Emory and all the other T25 privates. The bar is slightly higher than UNC requires of its students from in state but that decision makes the OOS kids there feel like they are very different from the instate: it is a wider intellectual gap. UVA has a narrow gap and they take a lot of OOS so the peer mix can rival the other T25s. Why on earth should UVA lower the bar ? There is zero need with so many other great schools that smart but not quite that level can go.
You said this as if Emory was the easiest T25 private to get into. Pretty sure that belongs to Notre Dame.
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