Where do "B" average Big-3 students go to college?

[Anonymous]

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The losers in all this are the kids whose parents deliberately put them in a challenging rigorous school so they can develop intellectually. These are the very kids being weeded out… To an extent this is part of the war against “privilege”- the only rigorous schools are elite privates and publics in very affluent towns.

Aww I feel so bad that you can’t buy your way through life anymore.

How terrible of them to spend their earned money on a well rounded education and how awful they send their kids to a rigorous school where god forbid they learn good work ethic and study habits.

Look, Larla had an amazing playdate and got into SFS in kindergarten and mom and dad paid for 13 years there. Surely that means she deserves to go to any college she chooses?

Not really. Larla's parents paid for a private school where Larla received a better education because the teachers were better and the academic bar was higher. She developed work ethic and study skills to succeed in a rigorous environment.

Plenty of kids developing great work ethics in rigorous courses in public school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DS is an OK student at a Big-3 (Sidwell/GDS/StA)--B average, with a good number of AP/honors/"upper level" courses. SATs average for the school (1400s). Let's assume no hook, or small hook. Full pay (no FA or scholarship needed.) Will probably write a strong essay, but not astonishingly good. What are typical target schools for this kind of student? Thank you!

Any Top 10-30 SLAC.

Tulane ED.

Describes my kid to a T, several years back. He and many of his slackerish football teammates at a Big 3 ended up at LACs in that range - Kenyon, Bates, Colby, Colorado, Hamilton (an easier admit then), Washington and Lee, Dickinson. Fine schools all but definitely not destinations for top students at the top DC privates. All of them did very well in college, ended up at Ivy-level grad schools or great jobs. They had excellent high school preparation

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well, my 3.2 gpa "big 3" DD just outright rejected from CU Boulder. I am flabbergasted. This is the most messed up college admissions cycle we have experienced yet. What a mess.

I'm so sorry. This must be stressful. Did DD submit SAT or ACT scores? I do wonder if at these large schools it's harder for Big-3 students to complete bc of the lack of grade inflation, and so students need to submit standardized test scores. Did DD apply to any schools early?

She did submit. It was not a high ACT, but was above the 50th% range, so counselor said definitely submit. It's all about GPA now that TO is the norm. With so much grade inflation everywhere else, anything lower than a 3.7, no matter the school, is automatically out at large universities. I wish my kids had never attended the school they did. Not just because of college acceptances, but because they never felt anything other than like they were the stupid kids and end their senior year feeling ilke failures because the majority of their classmates are attending top 30 colleges and universities. I wish they had just had normal childhoods, surrounded by normal people who don't judge based on college matriculation.

yikes - $160k on hs to come out feeling like the stupid kid - empathize with you and totally agree that it was a mistake - hard pass on the private route for me.

I was weak and let my husband and his family force this. I fought for years to get them out, but couldn't win. The only option was to divorce and that seemed extreme. Honestly, I wish I had and had hired a lawyer to win the fight. You are making the right choice. It was an absolutely horrible experience and I live with regret everyday that we don't get a do-over for my poor kids.

Try not to look at private school as having failed your child: your child will probably be more prepared for his/her first year of college than others. My DS is rocking his first year of college, because he is prepared.

It’s fine to assume your kid will be well prepared, but don’t assume they’ll be “more” prepared than others. My public school DS with his “fake” high school GPA is crushing it as a premed chemistry major in his top 5 SLAC and his roommate is a public school kid from Indiana who basically carried their entire friend group through organic chemistry, and the international students from Asian countries are settling the bar for all of them. And doing this while balancing work study jobs.

I’m not denying the quality of a private school education but it’s the height of arrogance to think that public school kids at top colleges and universities aren’t going to be equally well prepared.

Also don’t assume top publics grade inflate or are easy. We are at a top public in New England, an A in an AP is hard to come by, and the B+ students face an uphill battle with admissions despite high test scores. I am convinced if my kids went to the less competitive public in a nearby town; they would have 4.0 and get into college easily.

NP. I agree with you, 100%

What I don't quite understand is the reliance on grades being so extra-heavy even when scores are present. High GPA plus no score >>> "Low" GPA plus high score. The treatment of GPA as if it's standardized (regardless of what is said to the contrary about context) is bizarre, but that seems to be the current situation.

The losers in all this are the kids whose parents deliberately put them in a challenging rigorous school so they can develop intellectually. These are the very kids being weeded out… To an extent this is part of the war against “privilege”- the only rigorous schools are elite privates and publics in very affluent towns.

OMG the persecution mentality.

Nothing is stopping you from sending your kid to some “bad” public school.

Well, when people made the decision to buy a house somewhere with a top school system or to commit to a top private school, they figured it would be helpful in terms of taking the kid to the next level of educational attainment. They didn’t realize it would be the equivalent of an educational curse. So the parents who actually didn’t really care about education and plopped their kids in a mediocre school system are the ones whose kids are getting the better opportunities with their fake 4.0s. Seems unfair.

This has got to be satire. You think that people could just put their kids in “top school districts” if “only they cared about education”?

You know what you're missing? People worked their butts off to buy homes in these areas because they prioritized educational achievement. I don't see why the kid in the great school system should be penalized versus the kid in the okay school system.

I live in one of "these areas" - Bethesda. Some of my kids went to Whitman, a very competitive public school. Some went to one of the DC private "Big 3" schools. I can tell you for a fact that, in general, graduates of both schools do very, very well in college admissions. Including this year, in the ED and EA rounds. I see every indication that the doors have not slammed shut for the children of privilege. Top graduates from both schools are still getting into top schools, and mid-level kids are getting into places that most American kids could only dream about. They mostly have good test prep, effective strategy (recruiting for niche sports, ED, legacy, etc), and the ability to pay all or most of the outrageous price tag. Yes, you may have imagined your children at your Ivy alma mater and they're "only" ending up at Vanderbilt or an LAC than carried no clout in your day. Times have changed.And there are certain demographics that are much less favored now than they were a generation ago. But upper middle class kids from affluent, well-educated northeastern suburbs or city areas like NWDC, aren't among them.

[Anonymous]

JMU

[Anonymous]

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I don't know why people are so dubious of my story. I won't share the sport or school because I am very paranoid about posting on here. It is not football or basketball, but is a very popular sport--not track--that lots of kids play around here. The coach was fairly familiar with our private and said, yeah, these grades are a little low, but admissions understands the rigor, it should be fine. The coach texted my kid on June 28 and said something along the lines of, can't wait to call you on Friday! (which was July 1). Friday came and went with no call, so we knew there was a problem. Monday was a holiday. Coach called at 8 am on Tuesday, July 6, and said they worked all weekend to try to convince admissions but they said, no way. Kid then spent the summer weighing a D3 offer at a lower ranked school that he really liked with the D1 offer he had had since January. The D1 school has a much higher academic reputation, but was just never the kid's first choice and he was never really intent on playing D1 because of academic concerns and wanting to play but also enjoy college. He is very good at his sport. Not top D1, but top NESCAC and lower D1 level. I hope these details will convince you all that I am not making it up. A 3.2 from a rigorous DC private was not enough to get a top NESCAC recruit past the pre-read.

I totally believe this parent. We were on a recruiting webinar with men's lax coaches from Williams, Swarthmore & Wesleyan and Tufts. The Williams coach was brutally honest explaining it doesn't matter how amazing you are on the field, if you don't have the grades, you won't get past the pre-read. He said they turn away great players all the time because NESCAC schools prioritize academics over athletics. He said we take the "student" in "student athlete" very seriously. It stinks and I'm sorry for your son, but getting the pre-read at least gave him a chance to shift gears and re-consider his options. The coaches all encouraged the kids to think about life beyond lacrosse and to make the best choice based on their life goals. Best of luck to your son.

I'm a little surprised that a parent of a kid at a rigorous DC private thought that a 3.2 was sufficient to get past the pre-read. When my DD was a sophomore but playing on a club team comprised mostly of juniors b/c of birth date attended a lot of team meet and greets with coaches. They were all quite clear that they wanted top student-athletes not athletes. One of her team members tried to make an argument that her curriculum was more rigorous so that should count for something with her GPA. Yeah, the coach let her know that meant nothing to him.

Cool anecdote. This was not that case. Both coach and school college counselor--plus data from Naviance--showed the GPA in the lower end of the range. Again, if you don't have a kid at one of these schools and don't have access to the data, you really don't know what you're talking about. Thanks though. Cool story.

Coaches and Admissions staff at Williams know that a 3.2 at Sidwell isn't the same as a 3.2 at Magruder High School in Olney. Sorry, no disrespect, but they know. And they recruit accordingly. They know that 3.2 kids from Sidwell will have 1450-1500 SATs, the same as 4.0 kids from Magruder. My 3.0 kid from a "Big 3" school was a recruited athlete at a mid-level NESCAC and di very well academically there - better than he did at his DC private.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well, my 3.2 gpa "big 3" DD just outright rejected from CU Boulder. I am flabbergasted. This is the most messed up college admissions cycle we have experienced yet. What a mess.

I'm so sorry. This must be stressful. Did DD submit SAT or ACT scores? I do wonder if at these large schools it's harder for Big-3 students to complete bc of the lack of grade inflation, and so students need to submit standardized test scores. Did DD apply to any schools early?

She did submit. It was not a high ACT, but was above the 50th% range, so counselor said definitely submit. It's all about GPA now that TO is the norm. With so much grade inflation everywhere else, anything lower than a 3.7, no matter the school, is automatically out at large universities. I wish my kids had never attended the school they did. Not just because of college acceptances, but because they never felt anything other than like they were the stupid kids and end their senior year feeling ilke failures because the majority of their classmates are attending top 30 colleges and universities. I wish they had just had normal childhoods, surrounded by normal people who don't judge based on college matriculation.

yikes - $160k on hs to come out feeling like the stupid kid - empathize with you and totally agree that it was a mistake - hard pass on the private route for me.

I was weak and let my husband and his family force this. I fought for years to get them out, but couldn't win. The only option was to divorce and that seemed extreme. Honestly, I wish I had and had hired a lawyer to win the fight. You are making the right choice. It was an absolutely horrible experience and I live with regret everyday that we don't get a do-over for my poor kids.

Try not to look at private school as having failed your child: your child will probably be more prepared for his/her first year of college than others. My DS is rocking his first year of college, because he is prepared.

It’s fine to assume your kid will be well prepared, but don’t assume they’ll be “more” prepared than others. My public school DS with his “fake” high school GPA is crushing it as a premed chemistry major in his top 5 SLAC and his roommate is a public school kid from Indiana who basically carried their entire friend group through organic chemistry, and the international students from Asian countries are settling the bar for all of them. And doing this while balancing work study jobs.

I’m not denying the quality of a private school education but it’s the height of arrogance to think that public school kids at top colleges and universities aren’t going to be equally well prepared.

Also don’t assume top publics grade inflate or are easy. We are at a top public in New England, an A in an AP is hard to come by, and the B+ students face an uphill battle with admissions despite high test scores. I am convinced if my kids went to the less competitive public in a nearby town; they would have 4.0 and get into college easily.

NP. I agree with you, 100%

What I don't quite understand is the reliance on grades being so extra-heavy even when scores are present. High GPA plus no score >>> "Low" GPA plus high score. The treatment of GPA as if it's standardized (regardless of what is said to the contrary about context) is bizarre, but that seems to be the current situation.

The losers in all this are the kids whose parents deliberately put them in a challenging rigorous school so they can develop intellectually. These are the very kids being weeded out… To an extent this is part of the war against “privilege”- the only rigorous schools are elite privates and publics in very affluent towns.

OMG the persecution mentality.

Nothing is stopping you from sending your kid to some “bad” public school.

Well, when people made the decision to buy a house somewhere with a top school system or to commit to a top private school, they figured it would be helpful in terms of taking the kid to the next level of educational attainment. They didn’t realize it would be the equivalent of an educational curse. So the parents who actually didn’t really care about education and plopped their kids in a mediocre school system are the ones whose kids are getting the better opportunities with their fake 4.0s. Seems unfair.

Translation: you played the game the best way you could. Someone else played the game the best way they could. You thought you would win and your style of play was better, but you lost. And because you never thought you could lose it seems unfair.

I don’t know, it’s like a grade in AP AB Calc being considered equivalent to BC Calc. If you can’t identify the unfairness in this, I don’t know what to say.

The actual error here is your belief that a high school class in a neighborhood where houses average $1.5 million is actually better than a class in a neighborhood where houses average $500k. You looked at GreatSchools ratings and you thought this was the case, but you were wrong. You didn’t understand averages. Maybe fewer kids at the “poorer” school take AP calc, but for those who do it’s the same class.

[Anonymous]

My DC at a very rigorous private that is well-known for no grade inflation has a 3.75 GPA, a 1490 SAT and good ECs. Only in at some of the safeties that get pooh-poohed around here. But that kid is going to be fine and certainly isn’t entitled to a T30/50 college admittance. Colleges are free to figure out what kind of freshman class they want and for some reason, her profile isn’t in high demand this year (so far).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC at a very rigorous private that is well-known for no grade inflation has a 3.75 GPA, a 1490 SAT and good ECs. Only in at some of the safeties that get pooh-poohed around here. But that kid is going to be fine and certainly isn’t entitled to a T30/50 college admittance. Colleges are free to figure out what kind of freshman class they want and for some reason, her profile isn’t in high demand this year (so far).

What's an example of one of the schools?

[Anonymous]

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I don't know why people are so dubious of my story. I won't share the sport or school because I am very paranoid about posting on here. It is not football or basketball, but is a very popular sport--not track--that lots of kids play around here. The coach was fairly familiar with our private and said, yeah, these grades are a little low, but admissions understands the rigor, it should be fine. The coach texted my kid on June 28 and said something along the lines of, can't wait to call you on Friday! (which was July 1). Friday came and went with no call, so we knew there was a problem. Monday was a holiday. Coach called at 8 am on Tuesday, July 6, and said they worked all weekend to try to convince admissions but they said, no way. Kid then spent the summer weighing a D3 offer at a lower ranked school that he really liked with the D1 offer he had had since January. The D1 school has a much higher academic reputation, but was just never the kid's first choice and he was never really intent on playing D1 because of academic concerns and wanting to play but also enjoy college. He is very good at his sport. Not top D1, but top NESCAC and lower D1 level. I hope these details will convince you all that I am not making it up. A 3.2 from a rigorous DC private was not enough to get a top NESCAC recruit past the pre-read.

I totally believe this parent. We were on a recruiting webinar with men's lax coaches from Williams, Swarthmore & Wesleyan and Tufts. The Williams coach was brutally honest explaining it doesn't matter how amazing you are on the field, if you don't have the grades, you won't get past the pre-read. He said they turn away great players all the time because NESCAC schools prioritize academics over athletics. He said we take the "student" in "student athlete" very seriously. It stinks and I'm sorry for your son, but getting the pre-read at least gave him a chance to shift gears and re-consider his options. The coaches all encouraged the kids to think about life beyond lacrosse and to make the best choice based on their life goals. Best of luck to your son.

I appreciate all these my kid did better in college anecdotes but let’s not forget that in college everyone (even liberal arts kids) can lean into subjects that they are good at. I went to Williams are there are math and science classes at Williams for non math and science kids. Your kid may do quite well at one of these schools because they aren’t required to take classes in areas they find difficult and may be able to take classes in subjects they are good at. Not saying that all these stories aren’t true or trying to undercut them, just saying that your child’s course schedule in college may not be as challenging.

I'm a little surprised that a parent of a kid at a rigorous DC private thought that a 3.2 was sufficient to get past the pre-read. When my DD was a sophomore but playing on a club team comprised mostly of juniors b/c of birth date attended a lot of team meet and greets with coaches. They were all quite clear that they wanted top student-athletes not athletes. One of her team members tried to make an argument that her curriculum was more rigorous so that should count for something with her GPA. Yeah, the coach let her know that meant nothing to him.

Cool anecdote. This was not that case. Both coach and school college counselor--plus data from Naviance--showed the GPA in the lower end of the range. Again, if you don't have a kid at one of these schools and don't have access to the data, you really don't know what you're talking about. Thanks though. Cool story.

Coaches and Admissions staff at Williams know that a 3.2 at Sidwell isn't the same as a 3.2 at Magruder High School in Olney. Sorry, no disrespect, but they know. And they recruit accordingly. They know that 3.2 kids from Sidwell will have 1450-1500 SATs, the same as 4.0 kids from Magruder. My 3.0 kid from a "Big 3" school was a recruited athlete at a mid-level NESCAC and di very well academically there - better than he did at his DC private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The losers in all this are the kids whose parents deliberately put them in a challenging rigorous school so they can develop intellectually. These are the very kids being weeded out… To an extent this is part of the war against “privilege”- the only rigorous schools are elite privates and publics in very affluent towns.

Aww I feel so bad that you can’t buy your way through life anymore.

How terrible of them to spend their earned money on a well rounded education and how awful they send their kids to a rigorous school where god forbid they learn good work ethic and study habits.

Look, Larla had an amazing playdate and got into SFS in kindergarten and mom and dad paid for 13 years there. Surely that means she deserves to go to any college she chooses?

Not really. Larla's parents paid for a private school where Larla received a better education because the teachers were better and the academic bar was higher. She developed work ethic and study skills to succeed in a rigorous environment.

Plenty of kids developing great work ethics in rigorous courses in public school.

Plenty of kids do better in college because they can take classes in subjects they are good at. Williams has science and math classes for kids who are not good at science and math and I assume other colleges are like this too. If your kid is better in either the humanities or STEM then focusing on what they are good at can help their GPA soar. Sure, they have study skills but it’s more that they get to choose the rigor unlike in high school where it’s more prescriptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC at a very rigorous private that is well-known for no grade inflation has a 3.75 GPA, a 1490 SAT and good ECs. Only in at some of the safeties that get pooh-poohed around here. But that kid is going to be fine and certainly isn’t entitled to a T30/50 college admittance. Colleges are free to figure out what kind of freshman class they want and for some reason, her profile isn’t in high demand this year (so far).

Of course she's not entitled to, but no one is. It can still be disappointing because, from her stats, it sounds like she's worked hard and would be a great candidate to a 20-50 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC at a very rigorous private that is well-known for no grade inflation has a 3.75 GPA, a 1490 SAT and good ECs. Only in at some of the safeties that get pooh-poohed around here. But that kid is going to be fine and certainly isn’t entitled to a T30/50 college admittance. Colleges are free to figure out what kind of freshman class they want and for some reason, her profile isn’t in high demand this year (so far).

Of course she's not entitled to, but no one is. It can still be disappointing because, from her stats, it sounds like she's worked hard and would be a great candidate to a 20-50 school.

Those are solid credentials and there will be great schools that are interested

[Anonymous]

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My B kid, from a MoCo public school, got into a school on that tier
ED in December. If I had to guess the reason: High testing (1530/35), 10 APs, ED, Full pay.

which tier?

Guessing this is Wake, Lehigh or Bucknell.

Lehigh or Bucknell much easier to get into than Wake.

Not true. Their admit percentages are higher but their enrolled student metrics are about the same. And if you look at engineering admits for Lehigh and Bucknell vs Wake, significantly higher.

I am just talking about competitiveness of the admit from our private. Much easier to get into Lehigh and Bucknell. By a significant margin.

umm…if you are fed up with grace deflation at a Big 3, you do not want a repeat of that experience at Lehigh. Grading on the curve, class averages of 62, 42, etc. It is brutal.

[Anonymous]

I'm honestly exhausted by the public school parents who come on here to tell us
1. How hard the W schools are
2. Where Big 3 kids go.

As an actual Big 3 parent of 3 high schoolers, and one senior this year, one younger, one in public. I will tell you the grade deflation is messing our kids up in terms of admissions. Yes 5 years a go a B average kid at a Big 3 could go to Hamilton, Bates, Tulane even Wisconsin. NOT this year. The common App and Covid weirdness in terms of gap years act have wreaked havoc on admissions norms. Big 3 Kids are getting WL and rejected from places that used to be safeties. B students from Big 3 ARE well prepared and the colleges USED to get this but no more. It's reality.

And to the public parents who keep insisting the W's are "just as hard" as Big 3. We have one in public and it's simply not true. Not even close. However our public kid does less work and has better grades and will probably land at a better college than our kids in private. So there's that.

[Anonymous]

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You need to prep to increase that SAT score.

yes it does help increase standardized testing scores