Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

You arent seeing a bunch of May, June and July holdbacks in ECNL grad year info. Expect at least 10 percent of players off of the more traditional grade year from so many birth months that the only a rule to go grade year would be able to make club soccer grade year. And their just isn't the documentation for grades to make grad year enforceable in any way.

Aug birthdays playing with their grade doesnt have to be enforceable. It works because players get better visability with college coaches and clubs because of player better visibility to college coaches gets more college committments.

Add in that 8th grade teams dont have 9th grade players leaving the team for 3 month during the season to ay HS soccer.

Theres reasons all round to play Aug birthdays with their grade in school.

It also helps boys because if you're playing a grade down level in SY it would be nearly impossible to get recruited to play on a MLSN HG BY team. This is because the BY players would be older and there would be biobanders which are even older.

Ridiculous, MLSN1 are recruited by contacting MLSN1 teams unless the boy is top of the top. Tryouts are based on going to practices for new club not some highlights or showcase ID. The nutty ways you try to get youth soccer to go grade to help your kid is crazy, crazy, crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the point - if my 2011 is playing with sophomores, and the recruiters are at the showcase to recruit juniors, then they are not going over to other fields that are likely far away to just see my one kid playing because he happens to be a junior. This is why you want your kid playing with their grad year - because recruiters are typically focused on one grad year at a time. If he was super special maybe they would go out of their way, but that's not going to be the case most of the time.

Nonsense. Again.

Recruiter will watch whoever is on his list to watch.
He has all their information and he knows their schedule for the tournament.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

You arent seeing a bunch of May, June and July holdbacks in ECNL grad year info. Expect at least 10 percent of players off of the more traditional grade year from so many birth months that the only a rule to go grade year would be able to make club soccer grade year. And their just isn't the documentation for grades to make grad year enforceable in any way.

Aug birthdays playing with their grade doesnt have to be enforceable. It works because players get better visability with college coaches and clubs because of player better visibility to college coaches gets more college committments.

Add in that 8th grade teams dont have 9th grade players leaving the team for 3 month during the season to ay HS soccer.

Theres reasons all round to play Aug birthdays with their grade in school.

It also helps boys because if you're playing a grade down level in SY it would be nearly impossible to get recruited to play on a MLSN HG BY team. This is because the BY players would be older and there would be biobanders which are even older.

Ridiculous, MLSN1 are recruited by contacting MLSN1 teams unless the boy is top of the top. Tryouts are based on going to practices for new club not some highlights or showcase ID. The nutty ways you try to get youth soccer to go grade to help your kid is crazy, crazy, crazy.

Has nothing to do with showcases. I wish you understood math and calenders.

If you're an Aug birthday in SY playing down. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 1 year and 6 months youger than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

if you're an Aug birthday playjng with your grade in SY. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 6 months older than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

Add in biobanding in MLSN and you can see why Aug boys playing down in SY leagues wont be considered for BY MLSN HG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

You arent seeing a bunch of May, June and July holdbacks in ECNL grad year info. Expect at least 10 percent of players off of the more traditional grade year from so many birth months that the only a rule to go grade year would be able to make club soccer grade year. And their just isn't the documentation for grades to make grad year enforceable in any way.

Aug birthdays playing with their grade doesnt have to be enforceable. It works because players get better visability with college coaches and clubs because of player better visibility to college coaches gets more college committments.

Add in that 8th grade teams dont have 9th grade players leaving the team for 3 month during the season to ay HS soccer.

Theres reasons all round to play Aug birthdays with their grade in school.

It also helps boys because if you're playing a grade down level in SY it would be nearly impossible to get recruited to play on a MLSN HG BY team. This is because the BY players would be older and there would be biobanders which are even older.

Ridiculous, MLSN1 are recruited by contacting MLSN1 teams unless the boy is top of the top. Tryouts are based on going to practices for new club not some highlights or showcase ID. The nutty ways you try to get youth soccer to go grade to help your kid is crazy, crazy, crazy.

Has nothing to do with showcases. I wish you understood math and calenders.

If you're an Aug birthday in SY playing down. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 1 year and 6 months youger than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

if you're an Aug birthday playjng with your grade in SY. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 6 months older than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

Add in biobanding in MLSN and you can see why Aug boys playing down in SY leagues wont be considered for BY MLSN HG.

How do you play down?

Your birthday is your birthday.
If you're born 8/20/2013 you're playing with the 8/1/2013 to 7/31/2014 age group

You can't play with the 7/31/2015 cutoff group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

You arent seeing a bunch of May, June and July holdbacks in ECNL grad year info. Expect at least 10 percent of players off of the more traditional grade year from so many birth months that the only a rule to go grade year would be able to make club soccer grade year. And their just isn't the documentation for grades to make grad year enforceable in any way.

Aug birthdays playing with their grade doesnt have to be enforceable. It works because players get better visability with college coaches and clubs because of player better visibility to college coaches gets more college committments.

Add in that 8th grade teams dont have 9th grade players leaving the team for 3 month during the season to ay HS soccer.

Theres reasons all round to play Aug birthdays with their grade in school.

It also helps boys because if you're playing a grade down level in SY it would be nearly impossible to get recruited to play on a MLSN HG BY team. This is because the BY players would be older and there would be biobanders which are even older.

Ridiculous, MLSN1 are recruited by contacting MLSN1 teams unless the boy is top of the top. Tryouts are based on going to practices for new club not some highlights or showcase ID. The nutty ways you try to get youth soccer to go grade to help your kid is crazy, crazy, crazy.

Has nothing to do with showcases. I wish you understood math and calenders.

If you're an Aug birthday in SY playing down. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 1 year and 6 months youger than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

if you're an Aug birthday playjng with your grade in SY. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 6 months older than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

Add in biobanding in MLSN and you can see why Aug boys playing down in SY leagues wont be considered for BY MLSN HG.

How do you play down?

Your birthday is your birthday.
If you're born 8/20/2013 you're playing with the 8/1/2013 to 7/31/2014 age group

You can't play with the 7/31/2015 cutoff group

He's right and you're wrong.

Definitely something to think about with boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

You arent seeing a bunch of May, June and July holdbacks in ECNL grad year info. Expect at least 10 percent of players off of the more traditional grade year from so many birth months that the only a rule to go grade year would be able to make club soccer grade year. And their just isn't the documentation for grades to make grad year enforceable in any way.

Aug birthdays playing with their grade doesnt have to be enforceable. It works because players get better visability with college coaches and clubs because of player better visibility to college coaches gets more college committments.

Add in that 8th grade teams dont have 9th grade players leaving the team for 3 month during the season to ay HS soccer.

Theres reasons all round to play Aug birthdays with their grade in school.

It also helps boys because if you're playing a grade down level in SY it would be nearly impossible to get recruited to play on a MLSN HG BY team. This is because the BY players would be older and there would be biobanders which are even older.

Ridiculous, MLSN1 are recruited by contacting MLSN1 teams unless the boy is top of the top. Tryouts are based on going to practices for new club not some highlights or showcase ID. The nutty ways you try to get youth soccer to go grade to help your kid is crazy, crazy, crazy.

Has nothing to do with showcases. I wish you understood math and calenders.

If you're an Aug birthday in SY playing down. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 1 year and 6 months youger than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

if you're an Aug birthday playjng with your grade in SY. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 6 months older than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

Add in biobanding in MLSN and you can see why Aug boys playing down in SY leagues wont be considered for BY MLSN HG.

How do you play down?

Your birthday is your birthday.
If you're born 8/20/2013 you're playing with the 8/1/2013 to 7/31/2014 age group

You can't play with the 7/31/2015 cutoff group

He's right and you're wrong.

Definitely something to think about with boys.

Other than biobanding in MLSN you can't play down. This isn't a debate point, just a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

You arent seeing a bunch of May, June and July holdbacks in ECNL grad year info. Expect at least 10 percent of players off of the more traditional grade year from so many birth months that the only a rule to go grade year would be able to make club soccer grade year. And their just isn't the documentation for grades to make grad year enforceable in any way.

Aug birthdays playing with their grade doesnt have to be enforceable. It works because players get better visability with college coaches and clubs because of player better visibility to college coaches gets more college committments.

Add in that 8th grade teams dont have 9th grade players leaving the team for 3 month during the season to ay HS soccer.

Theres reasons all round to play Aug birthdays with their grade in school.

It also helps boys because if you're playing a grade down level in SY it would be nearly impossible to get recruited to play on a MLSN HG BY team. This is because the BY players would be older and there would be biobanders which are even older.

Ridiculous, MLSN1 are recruited by contacting MLSN1 teams unless the boy is top of the top. Tryouts are based on going to practices for new club not some highlights or showcase ID. The nutty ways you try to get youth soccer to go grade to help your kid is crazy, crazy, crazy.

Has nothing to do with showcases. I wish you understood math and calenders.

If you're an Aug birthday in SY playing down. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 1 year and 6 months youger than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

if you're an Aug birthday playjng with your grade in SY. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 6 months older than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

Add in biobanding in MLSN and you can see why Aug boys playing down in SY leagues wont be considered for BY MLSN HG.

Find research that says that playing as the oldest in an age group makes you worse as a player than being the youngest in an age group. Until you do your point is meritless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

25 states have an enrollment date of 8/31 or 9/1. 6 states have an enrollment date of 7/31 or 8/1. So if half of the country starts enrollment in September, why does youth soccer use a cutoff that aligns with only 6 states? If anything choosing 8/1 as the SY cutoff is letting the minority dictate things.

You already know the answer to that……….and if you dont understand it it is because you dont want to understand it. It has been explained on here ad nauseam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current youngers in ECNL are approximately 25% according to the public data.

With the change, I highly doubt there will be more than 5-10% of grade below playing on any older team. Slightly different in Sept+ and August states but not by much since there weren’t that many kids in those months to begin with.

So grade is going to be a fair proxy if 95% of kids are corresponding to the same grade in school vs 75% as is.

Yes there will be edge cases with hold backs or exceptional players or random school start dates but lets stop governing by minor exception vs the rule.

You arent seeing a bunch of May, June and July holdbacks in ECNL grad year info. Expect at least 10 percent of players off of the more traditional grade year from so many birth months that the only a rule to go grade year would be able to make club soccer grade year. And their just isn't the documentation for grades to make grad year enforceable in any way.

Aug birthdays playing with their grade doesnt have to be enforceable. It works because players get better visability with college coaches and clubs because of player better visibility to college coaches gets more college committments.

Add in that 8th grade teams dont have 9th grade players leaving the team for 3 month during the season to ay HS soccer.

Theres reasons all round to play Aug birthdays with their grade in school.

It also helps boys because if you're playing a grade down level in SY it would be nearly impossible to get recruited to play on a MLSN HG BY team. This is because the BY players would be older and there would be biobanders which are even older.

Ridiculous, MLSN1 are recruited by contacting MLSN1 teams unless the boy is top of the top. Tryouts are based on going to practices for new club not some highlights or showcase ID. The nutty ways you try to get youth soccer to go grade to help your kid is crazy, crazy, crazy.

Has nothing to do with showcases. I wish you understood math and calenders.

If you're an Aug birthday in SY playing down. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 1 year and 6 months youger than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

if you're an Aug birthday playjng with your grade in SY. You're used to playing against players that are roughly 6 months older than the oldest in an equivalent BY group.

Add in biobanding in MLSN and you can see why Aug boys playing down in SY leagues wont be considered for BY MLSN HG.

Find research that says that playing as the oldest in an age group makes you worse as a player than being the youngest in an age group. Until you do your point is meritless.

That research exists in the library at Tooth Fairy University

[Anonymous]

The more this conversation goes on, the more I still feel like just a handful of people even get this. So here's a few relevant pieces of info:

1. The idea here is for kids to play with their school grade. Every US Club/US Soccer communication says this. 7/31 is the earliest cutoff meaning as long as your kid started school on time, they are allowed to play with their school grade. This was the goal.

2. The term they use for kids playing a grade below because of school cutoff and birthday after Aug 1 is "force down" not play down, because playing down isn't allowed, but playing up is. So a "force down" is when a club forces a player to play with a lower grade. This was not the intent of the change.

3. One of the specified goals was to help facilitate college recruiting because college scouts are usually recruiting a specific graduation year. They are not often looking at multiple age groups at once and they will be going where the majority of the players they need are playing. If you aren't playing with your graduation year, you are at a significant disadvantage and this was acknowledged so the change is truly meant to align this.

[Anonymous]

Good luck trying to reason with Age guy.

Everyone except him understands that the whole BY to SY chamge was done to accommodate more players playing with kids their grade. Just because some Aug birthdays technically can play on a grade down team doesnt chamge the fact that playing with your grade is the preferred outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The more this conversation goes on, the more I still feel like just a handful of people even get this. So here's a few relevant pieces of info:

1. The idea here is for kids to play with their school grade. Every US Club/US Soccer communication says this. 7/31 is the earliest cutoff meaning as long as your kid started school on time, they are allowed to play with their school grade. This was the goal.

2. The term they use for kids playing a grade below because of school cutoff and birthday after Aug 1 is "force down" not play down, because playing down isn't allowed, but playing up is. So a "force down" is when a club forces a player to play with a lower grade. This was not the intent of the change.

3. One of the specified goals was to help facilitate college recruiting because college scouts are usually recruiting a specific graduation year. They are not often looking at multiple age groups at once and they will be going where the majority of the players they need are playing. If you aren't playing with your graduation year, you are at a significant disadvantage and this was acknowledged so the change is truly meant to align this.

More to the point, they said they wanted to better align with grades, reduce trapped problem and increase participation. By not saying they wanted to perfectly align with grades or eliminate the trap problem, they did what they said they would do. They created age groups based on 8/1 - 7/31 and are not consider grades as criteria for age groups for the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The more this conversation goes on, the more I still feel like just a handful of people even get this. So here's a few relevant pieces of info:

1. The idea here is for kids to play with their school grade. Every US Club/US Soccer communication says this. 7/31 is the earliest cutoff meaning as long as your kid started school on time, they are allowed to play with their school grade. This was the goal.

2. The term they use for kids playing a grade below because of school cutoff and birthday after Aug 1 is "force down" not play down, because playing down isn't allowed, but playing up is. So a "force down" is when a club forces a player to play with a lower grade. This was not the intent of the change.

3. One of the specified goals was to help facilitate college recruiting because college scouts are usually recruiting a specific graduation year. They are not often looking at multiple age groups at once and they will be going where the majority of the players they need are playing. If you aren't playing with your graduation year, you are at a significant disadvantage and this was acknowledged so the change is truly meant to align this.

More to the point, they said they wanted to better align with grades, reduce trapped problem and increase participation. By not saying they wanted to perfectly align with grades or eliminate the trap problem, they did what they said they would do. They created age groups based on 8/1 - 7/31 and are not consider grades as criteria for age groups for the rules.

How can you say...

"they said they wanted to better align with grades"

and

"and are not consider grades as criteria for age groups"

The hypocrisy is mind boggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good luck trying to reason with Age guy.

Everyone except him understands that the whole BY to SY chamge was done to accommodate more players playing with kids their grade. Just because some Aug birthdays technically can play on a grade down team doesnt chamge the fact that playing with your grade is the preferred outcome.

Correct, done to accommodate more but not all players playing on grade. Like pre BY, they chose dates which are easily documented vs grades which are not. If they wanted grade year, they would have gone grade year, they didn't. The rules stand. Self-serving interpreted intent is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good luck trying to reason with Age guy.

Everyone except him understands that the whole BY to SY chamge was done to accommodate more players playing with kids their grade. Just because some Aug birthdays technically can play on a grade down team doesnt chamge the fact that playing with your grade is the preferred outcome.

Correct, done to accommodate more but not all players playing on grade. Like pre BY, they chose dates which are easily documented vs grades which are not. If they wanted grade year, they would have gone grade year, they didn't. The rules stand. Self-serving interpreted intent is irrelevant.

At least you agree that playing with your grade is the whole reason for BY to SY change.

The reason for Aug birthdays playing up with their grade is college recruiting and so 8th grade teams don't have 9th grade players doing HS soccer for 3 months during the season.