Why don't people want to go to tj just because there are "too many" asians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that posts suggesting a need to reconsider the relative pros and cons of TJHSST are met with insults and dismissals, and yet the TJ boosters seem adamant to have the last word on the subject.

Perhaps they are not as sure what such a review might conclude as they'd like to assert. All the more reason to undertake one.

So when are you going to run for the school board and start that review or should we wait for you to become governor before you do that?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a Fairfax County resident but with grown kids so I have no skin in the game at this point, and I honestly couldn't read through every page of this discussion (though I find it interesting how much attention it is garnering), but I get the gist of the varying viewpoints and why everyone would be so fired up. However, regardless of what anyone thinks about TJ, don't you think getting rid of it would affect our real estate values? I know it's a bit selfish of me, but I'm going to sell in about 5-10 years, and I'm fairly confident that an FCPS without TJ would not be as desirable to buyers and industry alike. OK, fire away... I've armoured myself for your abuse...

. I'm one of the pro-TJ posters. One kid about to be done with TJ and another at a base HS since I will not have skin in the game in about a year. I'm mainly posting to shut up the racists.

I don't think RE values will be impacted if TJ is gone. It might actually go up if your school is a good one. For example, a lot of the TJ kids come from the Herndon/Reston area. They are zoned to South Lakes or Herndon High. If TJ is gone, those parents will move to other areas zoned to Oakton, Madison or Mclean to get a "better" education for their kids and RE values in that area will go up.

Your answer assumes that I live in one of those higher rent areas, though. I'd be screwed.

Typically values drop when the school zoning changes from a desirable school to a not so desirable one. I recall Herndon area homes being affected when some were rezoned to South Lakes from Oakton (I think, don't recall the details) but in this case, I don't think the exodus will large enough to justify a wholesale price drop in Herndon/Reston. And obviously, this is pure speculation on my part..

I'm not sure how this all works on a macro scale, but I know I was drawn to FCPS 5 yrs ago because I heard about TJ, and it sort of made me think the whole school district was as excellent, and that is what everyone seemed to be saying. Now I know better, but I imagine TJ's reputation affects a lot of people's perceptions.

There was always a marketing/PR component to TJ, but the tide has turned. People see the hypocrisy of a system that pretends to care about equity, but doesn't walk the walk. APS and LCPS are eating FCPS alive these days as better alternatives for people who look beyond the headlines and do more research.

Have you given any thought to moving to Arlington or Loudoun? You should..

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not sure that pointing to the option school model in APS is very relevant to the problems created or exacerbated by TJ. It's hardly a lottery school; rather, it's an invitation-only school that has very skewed admissions practices.

In addition, the option schools in APS educate kids in APS, not a whole host of other jurisdictions. So they don't take seats that otherwise might be available to other APS students. They simply reallocate them differently within APS. In contrast, TJ's operation as a regional magnet in a county with multiple overcrowded schools makes the overcrowding at other schools within FCPS worse.

And the very TJ parents who otherwise might play a role in addressing those problems throw up their hands, profess indifference to the impact on other schools and students, and insist vehemently that their kids should continue to get a better deal than everyone else. Absolutely revolting.

I think the total number of non-FCPS kids at TJ is less than 500. So that means that even if all of those kids disappeared from TJ, you would be adding a total of about 20 kids per high school over the whole system. Its just not a large amount of kids, relative to the size of FCPS. And those other jurisdictions pay money to FCPS (not to mention the money received from the state because of its status as a Governor's School). Sure TJ's existence creates some negative impacts on some students, but closing TJ would simply mean that different students would suffer different negative impacts. What makes the FCPS kids at TJ less important than kids at other schools?

Flawed analysis.

If TJ's enrollment wasn't capped because it's currently a Governor's school, the enrollment there could be greater than it is today, so it open up substantially more than 500 seats. That, in turn, would both relieve overcrowding at other schools and save money. And we all know that TJ kids are treated more importantly than kids anywhere else in FCPS and that returning TJ to its original use as a neighborhood high school means those kids might be treated equally for a change. Which is unacceptable to the TJ parents who keep coming up with bogus arguments to justify the preferential treatment their kids are receiving at the expense of other students.

So what would you suggest replace gifted education? Or are we also going to get rid of the other end of the spectrum (special ed) bc everyone should get exactly the same education?

You know very well, or should know, that most students receive advanced academics in compliance with all applicable state and federal laws without attending segregated magnets like TJ. At a minimum, FCPS should be asking itself why other systems, apart from some large cities like NYC and SF, generally have chosen not to follow that model.

Exhibiting racial hatred would not win you any argument or solve any problem you’re facing (which is really unrelated to TJ but yourself).

[Anonymous]

It is amazing how many misperceptions exist on this thread from people who claim to have experience with TJ but in reality have no idea what conditions are like on the ground, or how they've changed in the past 30 years of its existence.

But remarkably, the question posed by the original poster has all kinds of truth to it. I'll give a lot of credit to the one poster earlier who mentioned (I think from Arlington) that indeed, South Asian culture differs greatly from East and Southeast Asian culture. This very much bears out in terms of what you see from TJ. The culture of the school as a whole has changed mostly because of the massive influx of SOUTH Asians - it's why I-Nite has gone from a tiny ceremony held in the back corner of the cafeteria to an event that must be held in a 3000-seat theatre in George Mason where tickets are scalped for 10-20 times their face value and sell out 3 minutes after release.

There is another grouping at TJ that sees HUGE differences within the broad "Asian" demographic.... students whose parents were born or raised overseas versus students whose parents were born/raised in America. The latter group of "Asians" across the board places a MUCH higher emphasis on the well-rounded school experience, is MUCH more likely to support their student's participation in non-STEM activities, and contributes MUCH more to the school's overall well-being by serving on committees, volunteering to help with activities and chaperoning, and generally wanting to give back to the school.

The stereotypes that you hear on this particular thread, while not 100% accurate on a person-to-person basis, can largely be attributed to students whose parents only recently came to America. And it's forgivable because the education model in America is so vastly different (and not necessarily better) than it is anywhere else in the world, but it's a remarkably stark difference that you only need to attend one Freshman Preview Night to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is amazing how many misperceptions exist on this thread from people who claim to have experience with TJ but in reality have no idea what conditions are like on the ground, or how they've changed in the past 30 years of its existence.

But remarkably, the question posed by the original poster has all kinds of truth to it. I'll give a lot of credit to the one poster earlier who mentioned (I think from Arlington) that indeed, South Asian culture differs greatly from East and Southeast Asian culture. This very much bears out in terms of what you see from TJ. The culture of the school as a whole has changed mostly because of the massive influx of SOUTH Asians - it's why I-Nite has gone from a tiny ceremony held in the back corner of the cafeteria to an event that must be held in a 3000-seat theatre in George Mason where tickets are scalped for 10-20 times their face value and sell out 3 minutes after release.

There is another grouping at TJ that sees HUGE differences within the broad "Asian" demographic.... students whose parents were born or raised overseas versus students whose parents were born/raised in America. The latter group of "Asians" across the board places a MUCH higher emphasis on the well-rounded school experience, is MUCH more likely to support their student's participation in non-STEM activities, and contributes MUCH more to the school's overall well-being by serving on committees, volunteering to help with activities and chaperoning, and generally wanting to give back to the school.

The stereotypes that you hear on this particular thread, while not 100% accurate on a person-to-person basis, can largely be attributed to students whose parents only recently came to America. And it's forgivable because the education model in America is so vastly different (and not necessarily better) than it is anywhere else in the world, but it's a remarkably stark difference that you only need to attend one Freshman Preview Night to understand.

Pretty accurate summary IMO of what it's like now. (And can I just say iNite is an amazing place to see the wide diversity of cultures and talents that make up TJ.)

[Anonymous]

It’s not that hard to understand people of Indian and Chinese origins have very little in common either by looks, culture, or religion (Indians are more of caucasians than “Asians”). So TJ actually has great diversity even in terms of race. The negative posters on this board obviously knew this fact but chose to mislead people by labeling all of them as “Asians “ so that they sound the same. This is such a shame!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that hard to understand people of Indian and Chinese origins have very little in common either by looks, culture, or religion (Indians are more of caucasians than “Asians”). So TJ actually has great diversity even in terms of race. The negative posters on this board obviously knew this fact but chose to mislead people by labeling all of them as “Asians “ so that they sound the same. This is such a shame!

I think the fundamental reason for some people constantly attacking TJ is because it’s not a white-dominant school anymore, regardless of the status of diversity.

[Anonymous]

There is literally no spin on the current environment at TJ that hasn't been spun many times before.

Diversity among the 70-75% Asian population does not speak to the fact that TJ is in no way representative of FCPS, nor to the fact that few black, Hispanic and FARMS students attend the school.

Any suggestion that this is not acceptable, and that the School Board should look at this as well as the other impact that TJ has on other schools and students within FCPS are invariably met with dismissals of those concerns and, eventually, pointed personal attacks on anyone who dares raise them. The intent is obvious but none the less offensive: to intimidate any School Board or community members who might raise such issues or demand a broader review of the costs and benefits of continuing to operate TJ in its current form.

It is not a good look, and at some point the officials will take on the TJ lobby, despite the pitchforks that you are always sharpening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is literally no spin on the current environment at TJ that hasn't been spun many times before.

Diversity among the 70-75% Asian population does not speak to the fact that TJ is in no way representative of FCPS, nor to the fact that few black, Hispanic and FARMS students attend the school.

Any suggestion that this is not acceptable, and that the School Board should look at this as well as the other impact that TJ has on other schools and students within FCPS are invariably met with dismissals of those concerns and, eventually, pointed personal attacks on anyone who dares raise them. The intent is obvious but none the less offensive: to intimidate any School Board or community members who might raise such issues or demand a broader review of the costs and benefits of continuing to operate TJ in its current form.

It is not a good look, and at some point the officials will take on the TJ lobby, despite the pitchforks that you are always sharpening.

Here comes the idiot who's been repeating herself since the origin of this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that hard to understand people of Indian and Chinese origins have very little in common either by looks, culture, or religion (Indians are more of caucasians than “Asians”). So TJ actually has great diversity even in terms of race. The negative posters on this board obviously knew this fact but chose to mislead people by labeling all of them as “Asians “ so that they sound the same. This is such a shame!

I think the fundamental reason for some people constantly attacking TJ is because it’s not a white-dominant school anymore, regardless of the status of diversity.

This is technically correct. It is the fundamental reason for some people attacking TJ, but not that many.

A much larger and more well-reasoned cohort attack TJ from a diversity perspective because a massive amount of resources are sunk into a school whose demographic looks nothing like the county as a whole.

Another big group attacks the TJ admissions process because its emphasis on demonstration of STEM interest favors families who are both willing to drive their students in that direction from an early age (regardless of their actual interests) and have the resources to do so. They've mitigated the test-prep issue slightly with the introduction of the Quant-Q (which should have a much higher barrier to entry).

Like it or not, it's much more socially acceptable for Indian, Chinese, and Korean families (and those from many other cultures) to dictate their child's path than it is for modern-day American families. This is a big part of why nearly 60% of applications every year come from Asian and/or "multiracial" families. It's not a judgment on that culture to point out that aspect of it - indeed, I think many people in those demographics would tell you that they're very proud of that aspect of their culture.

TJ has a reputation - deserved or undeserved - as a hyper-competitive, cutthroat, STEM-only environment that is highly populated by East and South Asian families who are far less concerned with the complete high school experience than they are with optimizing that experience toward elite college admissions. That reputation deters families of all races (indeed, even some Asian families) from a) engaging in the application process to begin with, b) accepting the offer of admission and c) staying once they're there.

There have never been enough Black/Latinx applications to begin with, and White applications have declined precipitously over the past dozen years. The number of those families (especially Black families) who are actually accepted but decline the offer of admission once they attend Freshman Preview Night and see how few folks look like them is heartbreaking and contributes to the chicken-and-egg problem of representation at TJ. You'd have more Black families interested in applying to TJ (and accepting their offers of admission)....if there were more Black families at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is literally no spin on the current environment at TJ that hasn't been spun many times before.

Diversity among the 70-75% Asian population does not speak to the fact that TJ is in no way representative of FCPS, nor to the fact that few black, Hispanic and FARMS students attend the school.

Any suggestion that this is not acceptable, and that the School Board should look at this as well as the other impact that TJ has on other schools and students within FCPS are invariably met with dismissals of those concerns and, eventually, pointed personal attacks on anyone who dares raise them. The intent is obvious but none the less offensive: to intimidate any School Board or community members who might raise such issues or demand a broader review of the costs and benefits of continuing to operate TJ in its current form.

It is not a good look, and at some point the officials will take on the TJ lobby, despite the pitchforks that you are always sharpening.

Here comes the idiot who's been repeating herself since the origin of this forum.

Didn't you just prove her point about the personal insults?

Is this kind of behavior accepted in your culture? I hope your TJ kids have picked up some manners.

[Anonymous]

I remember at one point TJ had a mission statement that discussed how TJ would pilot teaching approaches methods that could be deployed more broadly in FCPS. At some point that got dropped and the mission statement (or equivalent) focused almost entirely on what TJ could do for its own students.

It really was a bait-and-switch on county residents. I hope they make it a school for the kids who live near the school again.

[Anonymous]

While the lack of diversity may be true, the results are extraordinary. If they weren't, I think there would be more push to change the school. By ranking #1 in the whole country, its reputation of high academic achievement is solidified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is literally no spin on the current environment at TJ that hasn't been spun many times before.

Diversity among the 70-75% Asian population does not speak to the fact that TJ is in no way representative of FCPS, nor to the fact that few black, Hispanic and FARMS students attend the school.

Any suggestion that this is not acceptable, and that the School Board should look at this as well as the other impact that TJ has on other schools and students within FCPS are invariably met with dismissals of those concerns and, eventually, pointed personal attacks on anyone who dares raise them. The intent is obvious but none the less offensive: to intimidate any School Board or community members who might raise such issues or demand a broader review of the costs and benefits of continuing to operate TJ in its current form.

It is not a good look, and at some point the officials will take on the TJ lobby, despite the pitchforks that you are always sharpening.

Here comes the idiot who's been repeating herself since the origin of this forum.

Didn't you just prove her point about the personal insults?

Is this kind of behavior accepted in your culture? I hope your TJ kids have picked up some manners.

You didn’t insult less. So stop the hypocrisy.
Also, insulting is better than lying about things again and again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is literally no spin on the current environment at TJ that hasn't been spun many times before.

Diversity among the 70-75% Asian population does not speak to the fact that TJ is in no way representative of FCPS, nor to the fact that few black, Hispanic and FARMS students attend the school.

Any suggestion that this is not acceptable, and that the School Board should look at this as well as the other impact that TJ has on other schools and students within FCPS are invariably met with dismissals of those concerns and, eventually, pointed personal attacks on anyone who dares raise them. The intent is obvious but none the less offensive: to intimidate any School Board or community members who might raise such issues or demand a broader review of the costs and benefits of continuing to operate TJ in its current form.

It is not a good look, and at some point the officials will take on the TJ lobby, despite the pitchforks that you are always sharpening.

Here comes the idiot who's been repeating herself since the origin of this forum.

Didn't you just prove her point about the personal insults?

Is this kind of behavior accepted in your culture? I hope your TJ kids have picked up some manners.

You are lecturing on not insulting people by insulting other people’s culture? Wow, white peopel..