Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many more generations of racial preference for blacks, at the expense of white kids, do you liberals envision? We've already had two full cycles.

And don't say until racial parity is achieved. That can only happen if blacks adjust specific negative behavior, like the out-of-wedlock birthrate, that makes success more difficult to where it "matches" whites. Some things ARE within the control of black people, after all.

My white kids are doing great. If yours aren't, it is your fault.

And again, a liberal above personalizes everything. Why are you so selfish as to think that I am concerned by the inequity of AA only because it affects me personally? It does not. My daughter is a graduate of Johns Hopkins and is currently at an IVY, pursuing her grad degree. She is doing great, as well. (And why is it necessary to take a swipe at me as a mother, blaming me for the failure you envision my daughter is? It's not even true! Damn but you liberals can be nasty.)

My sympathy lies with the poor white kids, who have excelled academically despite financial hardships, only to lose out to black kids with worse school records - INCLUDING middle-class black kids and for no other reason than skin color. It's abhorrent that liberals have such disdain for poor whites.

Agreed.

The same folks who used to be anti-black now try to be so cool while being anti-white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many more generations of racial preference for blacks, at the expense of white kids, do you liberals envision? We've already had two full cycles.

And don't say until racial parity is achieved. That can only happen if blacks adjust specific negative behavior, like the out-of-wedlock birthrate, that makes success more difficult to where it "matches" whites. Some things ARE within the control of black people, after all.

My white kids are doing great. If yours aren't, it is your fault.

And again, a liberal above personalizes everything. Why are you so selfish as to think that I am concerned by the inequity of AA only because it affects me personally? It does not. My daughter is a graduate of Johns Hopkins and is currently at an IVY, pursuing her grad degree. She is doing great, as well. (And why is it necessary to take a swipe at me as a mother, blaming me for the failure you envision my daughter is? It's not even true! Damn but you liberals can be nasty.)

My sympathy lies with the poor white kids, who have excelled academically despite financial hardships, only to lose out to black kids with worse school records - INCLUDING middle-class black kids and for no other reason than skin color. It's abhorrent that liberals have such disdain for poor whites.

Agreed.

The same folks who used to be anti-black now try to be so cool while being anti-white.

LIAR. The anti-black people are now GOP.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/25/417154906/dixies-long-journey-from-democratic-stronghold-to-republican-redoubt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

You are sooo full of shit. The number of black medical students has decreased significantly b/c black kids aren't interested. If whites aren't getting in, it isn't because of black students.

[Anonymous]

OP sounds like he/she has a problem with Black people. He/she assumes that, one, Black people are the only group that benefits from Affirmative Action. Two, Black people by nature are less qualified than whites. Three, every time a Black student is admitted to a highly selective university, it is at the expense of some white student.

OP, how many more qualified students, regardless of "race", are declined admissions because of a lower qualified legacy admit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

You are sooo full of shit. The number of black medical students has decreased significantly b/c black kids aren't interested. If whites aren't getting in, it isn't because of black students.

You are sooo ignorant. Take a look at the AAMC charts, and you'll see how med schools bend over backwards to let in black kids and demand the top, top, top from whites.

[Anonymous]

DP. I can’t wade through this. Suffice it say that with AA, it just cones down to whose ox is being gored. If a privileged white couple is able to get their less than stellar son into a top ranked school, that’s that, no worries, and they can keep up the social pose as “big fans” of affirmative action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

You are sooo full of shit. The number of black medical students has decreased significantly b/c black kids aren't interested. If whites aren't getting in, it isn't because of black students.

You are sooo ignorant. Take a look at the AAMC charts, and you'll see how med schools bend over backwards to let in black kids and demand the top, top, top from whites.

7% of medical students are black. We are really taking away those slots!

[Anonymous]

Racial resentment lady has been making up stats.

Total Enrollment by U.S. Medical School and Race/Ethnicity (Alone), 2018-2019
https://www.aamc.org/download/321540/data/factstableb5-1.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like he/she has a problem with Black people. He/she assumes that, one, Black people are the only group that benefits from Affirmative Action. Two, Black people by nature are less qualified than whites. Three, every time a Black student is admitted to a highly selective university, it is at the expense of some white student.

OP, how many more qualified students, regardless of "race", are declined admissions because of a lower qualified legacy admit?

Wow. Just because I am opposed to giving preferential treatment based on race, rather than the more fair policy based on SES that would help all disadvantaged children REGARDLESS of race, I have a "problem with black people"? And it is *I* who assume black people by nature are less qualified??

Au contraire. It is the liberals here who are up in arms to defend a policy that favors one race over another, with the assumption that blacks NEED to have lower standards in order to achieve. I, by comparison, realize it is not skin color that disadvantages someone, but rather financial hardship (which of course many blacks experience). Thus, I would expect that a middle-class black kid, with educated professional parents, would get just as good grades as her white classmates and therefore requires no "leg up" for admission. It is the poor students, black and white both, who are at the disadvantage, and an SES-based AA policy would help them.

And while not every white student loses out to a black student who gets poorer grades, when you create a lower-level "sub-class" of black kids, who are required to compete only with one another, you absolutely are costing SOME white kids the spots. The shame comes in when it is a white kid who, against all odds, grew up in poverty and still attained high grades in school, yet loses out to a middle-class black kid who did not do nearly as well.

It really seems that we have some extreme leftists on this forum, and unless a person supports a policy that helps blacks while concurrently hurting whites, they start in with the racist accusations. The racists are the ones who insist on favoring lower-scoring blacks over better-scoring whites, due solely to skin color, while concurrently making disdainful remarks about "white trash" and how community college is good enough for white boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP. I can’t wade through this. Suffice it say that with AA, it just cones down to whose ox is being gored. If a privileged white couple is able to get their less than stellar son into a top ranked school, that’s that, no worries, and they can keep up the social pose as “big fans” of affirmative action.

Yes, this is true. I've often seen how liberals "change their spots" when the impact of liberal policies impact them directly. But as long as they have the money to buy their way to escape it, they're fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Racial resentment lady has been making up stats.

Total Enrollment by U.S. Medical School and Race/Ethnicity (Alone), 2018-2019
https://www.aamc.org/download/321540/data/factstableb5-1.pdf

That means nothing, you liberal fool. Why didn't you link to the chart that shows how easy it is for a so-so black kid to get into med school and how impossible it is for a white kid? The fact that even with the low standards for black applicants (black kids with a straight B can get in!) they still can't get the numbers higher show how difficult it is to find black med school applicants with grades and test scores as good as whites, on average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like he/she has a problem with Black people. He/she assumes that, one, Black people are the only group that benefits from Affirmative Action. Two, Black people by nature are less qualified than whites. Three, every time a Black student is admitted to a highly selective university, it is at the expense of some white student.

OP, how many more qualified students, regardless of "race", are declined admissions because of a lower qualified legacy admit?

Wow. Just because I am opposed to giving preferential treatment based on race, rather than the more fair policy based on SES that would help all disadvantaged children REGARDLESS of race, I have a "problem with black people"? And it is *I* who assume black people by nature are less qualified??

Au contraire. It is the liberals here who are up in arms to defend a policy that favors one race over another, with the assumption that blacks NEED to have lower standards in order to achieve. I, by comparison, realize it is not skin color that disadvantages someone, but rather financial hardship (which of course many blacks experience). Thus, I would expect that a middle-class black kid, with educated professional parents, would get just as good grades as her white classmates and therefore requires no "leg up" for admission. It is the poor students, black and white both, who are at the disadvantage, and an SES-based AA policy would help them.

And while not every white student loses out to a black student who gets poorer grades, when you create a lower-level "sub-class" of black kids, who are required to compete only with one another, you absolutely are costing SOME white kids the spots. The shame comes in when it is a white kid who, against all odds, grew up in poverty and still attained high grades in school, yet loses out to a middle-class black kid who did not do nearly as well.

It really seems that we have some extreme leftists on this forum, and unless a person supports a policy that helps blacks while concurrently hurting whites, they start in with the racist accusations. The racists are the ones who insist on favoring lower-scoring blacks over better-scoring whites, due solely to skin color, while concurrently making disdainful remarks about "white trash" and how community college is good enough for white boys.

Why are you only focused on black students, not other URMs?

Or athletes - Ivy League colleges don't give athletic scholarships so maybe it's a rich, white LAX bro taking Billy's spot?

Or legacies - so it's OK for rich kids to take that spot?

Why do you assume that the poor white kids are "losing spots" to middle-class black kids? You are completely speculating on demographics. Maybe it's all rich white kids who aren't getting a spot - is that any better?

[Anonymous]

Now.....what I have just discovered is very interesting.

The AAMC, a very liberal organization, used to have charts that showed the acceptance rates, broken down by race, for any given combination of grades and MCAT scores. So, for example, you could look up and see what happened to a student with a 37 MCAT score (I think they have a new test so the points might be different) and a 3.6 GPA, broken down by race. You'd see that for that combo, 88% of black applicants were accepted to medical school, whereas only 45% of white students were. If you went down, to a combined 35 MCAT/3.4 GPA, you'd see that 60% of blacks were accepted, and only 25% of whites. You could drop even further, and find that a lousy MCAT score of 32 and a GPA of 3.2, you still had 20% of blacks getting in and ZERO whites.

But apparently, they are not disclosing that any longer. It brings to the forefront the inequity of what we are discussing here - that black kids who were decent but not exceptional college students overwhelmingly get into med school, and that white kids who were better overwhelmingly do not.

When you have to hide the results of liberal policies because the outcome screams "unfair!," you know something is wrong.

(If someone else can find the comparison chart - showing black/white acceptance rates by "cell" (the cell being the MCAT/GPA score), please post it. I couldn't find it, unless it's buried in the weeds somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like he/she has a problem with Black people. He/she assumes that, one, Black people are the only group that benefits from Affirmative Action. Two, Black people by nature are less qualified than whites. Three, every time a Black student is admitted to a highly selective university, it is at the expense of some white student.

OP, how many more qualified students, regardless of "race", are declined admissions because of a lower qualified legacy admit?

Wow. Just because I am opposed to giving preferential treatment based on race, rather than the more fair policy based on SES that would help all disadvantaged children REGARDLESS of race, I have a "problem with black people"? And it is *I* who assume black people by nature are less qualified??

Au contraire. It is the liberals here who are up in arms to defend a policy that favors one race over another, with the assumption that blacks NEED to have lower standards in order to achieve. I, by comparison, realize it is not skin color that disadvantages someone, but rather financial hardship (which of course many blacks experience). Thus, I would expect that a middle-class black kid, with educated professional parents, would get just as good grades as her white classmates and therefore requires no "leg up" for admission. It is the poor students, black and white both, who are at the disadvantage, and an SES-based AA policy would help them.

And while not every white student loses out to a black student who gets poorer grades, when you create a lower-level "sub-class" of black kids, who are required to compete only with one another, you absolutely are costing SOME white kids the spots. The shame comes in when it is a white kid who, against all odds, grew up in poverty and still attained high grades in school, yet loses out to a middle-class black kid who did not do nearly as well.

It really seems that we have some extreme leftists on this forum, and unless a person supports a policy that helps blacks while concurrently hurting whites, they start in with the racist accusations. The racists are the ones who insist on favoring lower-scoring blacks over better-scoring whites, due solely to skin color, while concurrently making disdainful remarks about "white trash" and how community college is good enough for white boys.

Why are you only focused on black students, not other URMs?

Or athletes - Ivy League colleges don't give athletic scholarships so maybe it's a rich, white LAX bro taking Billy's spot?

Or legacies - so it's OK for rich kids to take that spot?

Why do you assume that the poor white kids are "losing spots" to middle-class black kids? You are completely speculating on demographics. Maybe it's all rich white kids who aren't getting a spot - is that any better?

What other URMs? The Jews? Asians? (Oh wait.....) The only other URM I can think of who are URM are Latinos, and they get preferential treatment as well. But not as pronounced as blacks. But I oppose preferences there too. I think the BEST students should get in, with some extra consideration given to low-income students. I'm not insisting that "white trash" should go to "community college" like some of the liberal racists on this forum.

As far as Richie Rich, I've already said I'm opposed to that - but that when big donors are at stake, or championships, you can't change it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wow. Just because I am opposed to giving preferential treatment based on race, rather than the more fair policy based on SES that would help all disadvantaged children REGARDLESS of race, I have a "problem with black people"?

How does a policy only based on SES solve the problem that black patients receive much poorer care from white doctors than white patients?

How does a policy only based on SES solve the problem that male black doctors earn $50,000 less per year than male white doctors?

How does a policy only based on SES solve the rampant discrimination that black doctors experience in medical school and throughout their career?