American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

lol. Talk about out of your depth.

Again, not addressing the claim. Do better, girlie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Marriage and raising children are getting harder and harder for most young people around the world. Families have to be involved in supporting the couple, men and women have to workout their own equation in how to have a smooth functioning household, well raised children and enough money to live in a planet where fundamentals like housing, food, medical care, education, retirement etc are becoming more and more expensive.

The problem is that the entire majority White American society has lived for several generations in a society where everyone had access to easily available and excess resources without putting in the effort towards education, skills building, family and society building. Now the rules of the world is changing and there is no compatibility in the corporate world and the personal life.

American women have an expectation of equality in the home front as well as on the professional world. But, without the training, they are falling in both. Indeed, the lives of White American women actually becomes worse when they are married or when they have children. There is no validation they will get from themselves or society or corporate America when they are good moms, good wives or good workers. Also, society does not have their back if they get divorced.

Umm yea, I get validation from my job in the form of a paycheck that I use to support myself and my child. My pay was always more than my ex’s and now supports me just fine post divorce.

What “training” do American women need pray tell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it was really about mental load and chores, you wouldn’t see women cohabitating with men. They may not be marrying but they are sharing apartments and living with them still.

You can get rid of a boyfriend much easier than a husband … especially if no kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

I enjoy how your answer to “why are women choosing not to get married” is “they are not career focused enough by nature!” Makes a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

I enjoy how your answer to “why are women choosing not to get married” is “they are not career focused enough by nature!” Makes a lot of sense.

Your leaps in logic make a lot of sense too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

I enjoy how your answer to “why are women choosing not to get married” is “they are not career focused enough by nature!” Makes a lot of sense.

Your leaps in logic make a lot of sense too.

Do you lack any sense of logic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

No actually they are not, but nice try.

Just because you don’t have it in you doesn’t mean all women don’t. Just like there are a multitude of failure to launch men, they aren’t predestined to be successful or even want to be.

Yes, they are. Stop deluding yourself. Men and women do not want the exact same things in the exact same proportions, no matter how many outliers or edge cases you dredge up. This lie needs to end.

Why are you so insistent upon keeping women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? Women are allowed to want a career. Women are allowed to want to provide for themselves and their family. Just because you don’t, or don’t understand that does not negate the millions of women who do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's jobs are a necessity not a luxury.

I also can't imagine viewing a job as a luxury. Imagine telling a man his job is just a silly little hobby.

I'm a lawyer, I out earn my husband slightly and I still get this attitude, particularly from older family members (including my own mom).

For many it is as they spend more than they earn on their clothes, bags, jewelry, grooming, eating out, social life. Its not like their families are benefiting. Their husbands have to carry more home/children/mental load and still work hard to be the breadwinners because wives are working.

For every one marriage where the woman is a frivolous nilly with a hard working husband busting his ass at work and on the home front I could probably find 500 where the exact opposite is the case. Men struggling to "do it all" are the exception, not the norm. There's a reason why global lending focused on loans to women. When women had access to capital and made money they invested in health, their kids, education, and community. Men pissed it away on booze, gambling, and sex.

+1 in 3rd world war torn countries, it's the women who rebuild the communities.

My dad is from a former war torn country. He made some comment to me when I was in my 20s about how he doesn't gamble, drink too much or womanize like so many men in his generation, and isn't he a great dad? I said, "Well, if you did those things you wouldn't get any love from us."

I mean..my mother didn't do any of those things, worked, and did most of the housechores, childcare and cleaning, but that was just expected of her.

Society has had low expectations of men for thousands of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

No actually they are not, but nice try.

Just because you don’t have it in you doesn’t mean all women don’t. Just like there are a multitude of failure to launch men, they aren’t predestined to be successful or even want to be.

Yes, they are. Stop deluding yourself. Men and women do not want the exact same things in the exact same proportions, no matter how many outliers or edge cases you dredge up. This lie needs to end.

Why are you so insistent upon keeping women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? Women are allowed to want a career. Women are allowed to want to provide for themselves and their family. Just because you don’t, or don’t understand that does not negate the millions of women who do.

Non sequitur. Please stick to the points actually raised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Marriage and raising children are getting harder and harder for most young people around the world.

Bull. Compared to just about every other time and place in history, we're playing on easy mode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marriage and raising children are getting harder and harder for most young people around the world. Families have to be involved in supporting the couple, men and women have to workout their own equation in how to have a smooth functioning household, well raised children and enough money to live in a planet where fundamentals like housing, food, medical care, education, retirement etc are becoming more and more expensive.

The problem is that the entire majority White American society has lived for several generations in a society where everyone had access to easily available and excess resources without putting in the effort towards education, skills building, family and society building. Now the rules of the world is changing and there is no compatibility in the corporate world and the personal life.

American women have an expectation of equality in the home front as well as on the professional world. But, without the training, they are falling in both. Indeed, the lives of White American women actually becomes worse when they are married or when they have children. There is no validation they will get from themselves or society or corporate America when they are good moms, good wives or good workers. Also, society does not have their back if they get divorced.

Umm yea, I get validation from my job in the form of a paycheck that I use to support myself and my child. My pay was always more than my ex’s and now supports me just fine post divorce.

What “training” do American women need pray tell?

Training in birth-control, getting college education, running a household and being able to adult, raising good future citizens, attracting high quality mates, how to build families and a support network, how to be productive members, how to negotiate pay parity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marriage and raising children are getting harder and harder for most young people around the world. Families have to be involved in supporting the couple, men and women have to workout their own equation in how to have a smooth functioning household, well raised children and enough money to live in a planet where fundamentals like housing, food, medical care, education, retirement etc are becoming more and more expensive.

The problem is that the entire majority White American society has lived for several generations in a society where everyone had access to easily available and excess resources without putting in the effort towards education, skills building, family and society building. Now the rules of the world is changing and there is no compatibility in the corporate world and the personal life.

American women have an expectation of equality in the home front as well as on the professional world. But, without the training, they are falling in both. Indeed, the lives of White American women actually becomes worse when they are married or when they have children. There is no validation they will get from themselves or society or corporate America when they are good moms, good wives or good workers. Also, society does not have their back if they get divorced.

Umm yea, I get validation from my job in the form of a paycheck that I use to support myself and my child. My pay was always more than my ex’s and now supports me just fine post divorce.

What “training” do American women need pray tell?

Training in birth-control, getting college education, running a household and being able to adult, raising good future citizens, attracting high quality mates, how to build families and a support network, how to be productive members, how to negotiate pay parity.

I hope you are encouraging me to to get this same “training”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marriage and raising children are getting harder and harder for most young people around the world. Families have to be involved in supporting the couple, men and women have to workout their own equation in how to have a smooth functioning household, well raised children and enough money to live in a planet where fundamentals like housing, food, medical care, education, retirement etc are becoming more and more expensive.

The problem is that the entire majority White American society has lived for several generations in a society where everyone had access to easily available and excess resources without putting in the effort towards education, skills building, family and society building. Now the rules of the world is changing and there is no compatibility in the corporate world and the personal life.

American women have an expectation of equality in the home front as well as on the professional world. But, without the training, they are falling in both. Indeed, the lives of White American women actually becomes worse when they are married or when they have children. There is no validation they will get from themselves or society or corporate America when they are good moms, good wives or good workers. Also, society does not have their back if they get divorced.

Umm yea, I get validation from my job in the form of a paycheck that I use to support myself and my child. My pay was always more than my ex’s and now supports me just fine post divorce.

What “training” do American women need pray tell?

Training in birth-control, getting college education, running a household and being able to adult, raising good future citizens, attracting high quality mates, how to build families and a support network, how to be productive members, how to negotiate pay parity.

I hope you are encouraging me to to get this same “training”.

Lol. Men**

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marriage and raising children are getting harder and harder for most young people around the world. Families have to be involved in supporting the couple, men and women have to workout their own equation in how to have a smooth functioning household, well raised children and enough money to live in a planet where fundamentals like housing, food, medical care, education, retirement etc are becoming more and more expensive.

The problem is that the entire majority White American society has lived for several generations in a society where everyone had access to easily available and excess resources without putting in the effort towards education, skills building, family and society building. Now the rules of the world is changing and there is no compatibility in the corporate world and the personal life.

American women have an expectation of equality in the home front as well as on the professional world. But, without the training, they are falling in both. Indeed, the lives of White American women actually becomes worse when they are married or when they have children. There is no validation they will get from themselves or society or corporate America when they are good moms, good wives or good workers. Also, society does not have their back if they get divorced.

Umm yea, I get validation from my job in the form of a paycheck that I use to support myself and my child. My pay was always more than my ex’s and now supports me just fine post divorce.

What “training” do American women need pray tell?

Training in birth-control, getting college education, running a household and being able to adult, raising good future citizens, attracting high quality mates, how to build families and a support network, how to be productive members, how to negotiate pay parity.

Women are keeping all of that going. Sure there are some women who are helpless but I've run into way more men who don't know how to do painfully basic tasks to take care of themselves. Budgeting, cooking, cleaning, making appointment.

My MIL actually asked me why I wasn't making my husband's dental appointments (don't worry he does it himself just fine). But that's sadly the norm for so many men.