American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

[Anonymous]

Marriage and raising children are getting harder and harder for most young people around the world. Families have to be involved in supporting the couple, men and women have to workout their own equation in how to have a smooth functioning household, well raised children and enough money to live in a planet where fundamentals like housing, food, medical care, education, retirement etc are becoming more and more expensive.

The problem is that the entire majority White American society has lived for several generations in a society where everyone had access to easily available and excess resources without putting in the effort towards education, skills building, family and society building. Now the rules of the world is changing and there is no compatibility in the corporate world and the personal life.

American women have an expectation of equality in the home front as well as on the professional world. But, without the training, they are falling in both. Indeed, the lives of White American women actually becomes worse when they are married or when they have children. There is no validation they will get from themselves or society or corporate America when they are good moms, good wives or good workers. Also, society does not have their back if they get divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

[Anonymous]

If it was really about mental load and chores, you wouldn’t see women cohabitating with men. They may not be marrying but they are sharing apartments and living with them still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's jobs are a necessity not a luxury.

I also can't imagine viewing a job as a luxury. Imagine telling a man his job is just a silly little hobby.

I'm a lawyer, I out earn my husband slightly and I still get this attitude, particularly from older family members (including my own mom).

For many it is as they spend more than they earn on their clothes, bags, jewelry, grooming, eating out, social life. Its not like their families are benefiting. Their husbands have to carry more home/children/mental load and still work hard to be the breadwinners because wives are working.

Lol! What fanfic.

I'm laughing at this because I'm the poster he's responding to and I don't own a designer bags or clothing or eat out. But they just have to justify women being frivolous in their minds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

You sound like you have a trust fund and never had to work a day in your life. Many women don’t want to climb the corporate ladder, but they do want to have career advancement so they can have security, save money, retire one day, have things like good health insurance.

Crazy right!?!!! Why can’t they just be happy depending on a man for that, taking the chance that his addiction, his affairs, or his mental health won’t take a turn, and he’ll be able to support them forever.

This actually works out just fine for some people:

It’s fewer than you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it was really about mental load and chores, you wouldn’t see women cohabitating with men. They may not be marrying but they are sharing apartments and living with them still.

But opting out of marriage and family is significant. Certainly it is much easier to move out, then have to divorce, dissolve a marriage, and deal with coparenting and split custody.

Its also easier to have a more equitable split with chores and household tasks when kids aren’t involved, undeniably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it was really about mental load and chores, you wouldn’t see women cohabitating with men. They may not be marrying but they are sharing apartments and living with them still.

They arent doing that either (according to data). They are single - living alone, living life with their pets and friends. Cohabitation is more common than in previous generations, because it was heavily frowned upon, but it is still waning in comparison to women choosing to be alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women's jobs are a necessity not a luxury.

I also can't imagine viewing a job as a luxury. Imagine telling a man his job is just a silly little hobby.

I'm a lawyer, I out earn my husband slightly and I still get this attitude, particularly from older family members (including my own mom).

For many it is as they spend more than they earn on their clothes, bags, jewelry, grooming, eating out, social life. Its not like their families are benefiting. Their husbands have to carry more home/children/mental load and still work hard to be the breadwinners because wives are working.

For every one marriage where the woman is a frivolous nilly with a hard working husband busting his ass at work and on the home front I could probably find 500 where the exact opposite is the case. Men struggling to "do it all" are the exception, not the norm. There's a reason why global lending focused on loans to women. When women had access to capital and made money they invested in health, their kids, education, and community. Men pissed it away on booze, gambling, and sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

Do you think young women are stupid? It’s not hard to see.

Dating isn’t like marriage. It’s hard to see down the line how someone will interact with you once kids come along. Especially if you have lust blinders on.

This was the first generation of young women who truly saw moms work in near equal measure to dads- and breadwin in record numbers. This is also the first generation of young women who were raised in the activity laden nightmare that is modern day parenting. They heard terms like “mental load” and heard about the invisible work of parenting. They saw their parents work their ass off just to pay for daycare, while their standard of living wasn’t guaranteed to rise. This generation of women is neither smarter nor dumber than past- but they sure are more educated on the realities of cost of living/kids/quality of life issues

Agree to disagree. A subset of women may be thinking along these lines and not wanting to marry sure, but is that the primary reason for the decline in marriage? I personally think the other factors I raised, specifically the availability of well paid and educated men, are more relevant to the choice not to marry, and the workload balance is a greater cause for divorce.

You think women are so dumb that they cannot think in advance about what it would be like to be married with kids?

You’ve suggested twice that my comment means I think women are dumb. Bizarre take. I think most women do like the idea of marriage if they could find someone of equal status (emotional intelligence, hardworking, educated) and unfortunately that’s the real issue.

That’s not what the story or data says, but go on.

Jones, who identifies as politically moderate, thinks couples with kids should split household and child care responsibilities equally. She was surprised by just how few of the men she has encountered in D.C. share this view. Either they held traditional ideas about marriage or “were extremely crunchy liberal and wanted to live in a van and drive across the country.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

No actually they are not, but nice try.

Just because you don’t have it in you doesn’t mean all women don’t. Just like there are a multitude of failure to launch men, they aren’t predestined to be successful or even want to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

lol. Talk about out of your depth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Overall marriage and children are indeed a bad deal for majority of women.

How old are you? You sound like you are young enough to still believe that climbing the corporate ladder has some inherent value or is worth doing in and of itself.

Do men believe that? maybe men should be told to stop climbing the corporate ladder and stay home with their kids.

Men and women are different and the things typically valued in mate selection are different for each. Part of the reason for a lot of the current strife is this weird impulse to try and treat men and women as exactly the same. It never has been and never will be.

lol keep thinking that - that’s the path to total demographic collapse. It never ceases to amaze that men will fret about the fertility rate but refuse to look in the mirror …

You are disputing that men and women are different? Oh dear...

all your “oh dears” are not going to force young women into marriages and babies that they clearly do not want.

lol, avoiding the question. You're out of your depth, girlie.

No men and women are not different when it comes to wanting careers.

Actually, yes they are, but nice try.

No actually they are not, but nice try.

Just because you don’t have it in you doesn’t mean all women don’t. Just like there are a multitude of failure to launch men, they aren’t predestined to be successful or even want to be.

Yes, they are. Stop deluding yourself. Men and women do not want the exact same things in the exact same proportions, no matter how many outliers or edge cases you dredge up. This lie needs to end.