Dartmouth Announces Test Scores Required Starting Next Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

1400 is not a middling score.

Do you people know anything about standardized tests?

It's a middling score for selective schools.
It's probably high score for 3000+ other schools.
Do you know anything about college admissions?

No it isn’t. Historically that was a score that a number of admits had, or around that score. A 1400 is 95th percentile. A 1500 is 98 percentile, fyi. A 95 percentile score shows you can likely manage the work at an Ivy.

Nope sorry.
1,400 is well below the 25th percentile for Dartmouth and other Ivies and highly selective schools.
It's not even middling. It's a low score for highly selective scores probably from athletes, URMs, legacies, etc.

Yes if you look at the current data that is skewed at all schools by TO the past number of years. Not if you look at data from 10/15 years ago.
And what they are saying is that they would rather find the 95th percentile students from less well off regions who would thrive there than have the kids who don’t score as high but come from Bethesda and have a 4.0.

You only.need to go back to 2019 to see scores that don't include test optional and 1400 is still low then.

[Anonymous]

Interesting that Dartmouth and Georgetown, the two elite schools that have seen their prestige erode the most recently, are both using an allegiance to standardized testing to try to differentiate and gain back some lost relevance.

Telling that Dartmouth laundered the announcement through David Leonhardt rather than a journalist. Leonhardt's poor reputation rests on his willingness to spread pandemic-era disinformation to huge audiences. A journalist would ask inconvenient questions about things like how the shift to a digital SAT makes Dartmouth's data useless.

Also revealing that Dartmouth's new president has been looking for ways to mollify right-wing trolls scalp-hunting for Ivy leaders. The WSJ duly trumpeted the SAT mandate (however, without quite realizing that Dartmouth couched it in strong pro-DEI terms).

Can't just take Coffin at his word, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

Class rank has been a significant component of college admissions forever.

Right so I find it odd that they were having such a hard time identifying these kids. All the other information in the application didn't tip them off? Obviously they aren't really reading all the applications if they need this data point to help sort some straight into the trash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

Class rank has been a significant component of college admissions forever.

Right so I find it odd that they were having such a hard time identifying these kids. All the other information in the application didn't tip them off? Obviously they aren't really reading all the applications if they need this data point to help sort some straight into the trash.

Many HSs do not rank.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:they had telegraphed that they'd be test preferred this year, which I assumed would mean test required in a year or two. so I'm surprised to see this jump, but delighted.

it's stressful to know if you should submit or not.

and there's so much bad information out there - including by the A2C mods - for poorer kids. this articles makes that pretty clear.

Telegraphed? What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that Dartmouth and Georgetown, the two elite schools that have seen their prestige erode the most recently, are both using an allegiance to standardized testing to try to differentiate and gain back some lost relevance.

Telling that Dartmouth laundered the announcement through David Leonhardt rather than a journalist. Leonhardt's poor reputation rests on his willingness to spread pandemic-era disinformation to huge audiences. A journalist would ask inconvenient questions about things like how the shift to a digital SAT makes Dartmouth's data useless.

Also revealing that Dartmouth's new president has been looking for ways to mollify right-wing trolls scalp-hunting for Ivy leaders. The WSJ duly trumpeted the SAT mandate (however, without quite realizing that Dartmouth couched it in strong pro-DEI terms).

Can't just take Coffin at his word, unfortunately.

So a journalist would ask tougher Qs but the journalists at WSJ didn’t?

Hmmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that Dartmouth and Georgetown, the two elite schools that have seen their prestige erode the most recently, are both using an allegiance to standardized testing to try to differentiate and gain back some lost relevance.

Telling that Dartmouth laundered the announcement through David Leonhardt rather than a journalist. Leonhardt's poor reputation rests on his willingness to spread pandemic-era disinformation to huge audiences. A journalist would ask inconvenient questions about things like how the shift to a digital SAT makes Dartmouth's data useless.

Also revealing that Dartmouth's new president has been looking for ways to mollify right-wing trolls scalp-hunting for Ivy leaders. The WSJ duly trumpeted the SAT mandate (however, without quite realizing that Dartmouth couched it in strong pro-DEI terms).

Can't just take Coffin at his word, unfortunately.

Georgetown never went test optional. They aren’t using anything. They always stuck to their standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

Class rank has been a significant component of college admissions forever.

Right so I find it odd that they were having such a hard time identifying these kids. All the other information in the application didn't tip them off? Obviously they aren't really reading all the applications if they need this data point to help sort some straight into the trash.

Many HSs do not rank.

And many that do have 200 valedictorians abs more than 1/2 the class with a 4.0. Quickly gpa became an irrelevant stat for differentiating students due to grade inflation and differences in high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that Dartmouth and Georgetown, the two elite schools that have seen their prestige erode the most recently, are both using an allegiance to standardized testing to try to differentiate and gain back some lost relevance.

Telling that Dartmouth laundered the announcement through David Leonhardt rather than a journalist. Leonhardt's poor reputation rests on his willingness to spread pandemic-era disinformation to huge audiences. A journalist would ask inconvenient questions about things like how the shift to a digital SAT makes Dartmouth's data useless.

Also revealing that Dartmouth's new president has been looking for ways to mollify right-wing trolls scalp-hunting for Ivy leaders. The WSJ duly trumpeted the SAT mandate (however, without quite realizing that Dartmouth couched it in strong pro-DEI terms).

Can't just take Coffin at his word, unfortunately.

Cab you give examples of how Georgetown's prestige has eroded "the most" recently? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great! They're bringing back the tests. To truly want to see who has the chops, they need to do away with super scoring. One and done and decide.

Some I think look at that too.

Georgetown requires all tests. But that didn’t help my kid EA anyway. UW 4.0 and a 36ACT (not SS). Legacy is huge there. Legacy get in at 38% where it was 5% acceptance EA early round for kids that weren’t.

That is where schools could really step up. Stop taking less qualified kids, lessee merit just because daddy went there and grandpa too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! They're bringing back the tests. To truly want to see who has the chops, they need to do away with super scoring. One and done and decide.

Some I think look at that too.

Georgetown requires all tests. But that didn’t help my kid EA anyway. UW 4.0 and a 36ACT (not SS). Legacy is huge there. Legacy get in at 38% where it was 5% acceptance EA early round for kids that weren’t.

That is where schools could really step up. Stop taking less qualified kids, lessee merit just because daddy went there and grandpa too.

Their legacy policy is worse than Ivies. And it isn’t just undergrad. Parent could have just done grad or law and gone somewhere else for undergrad. I don’t get it. They have one of the lowest endowments too so they aren’t donating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! They're bringing back the tests. To truly want to see who has the chops, they need to do away with super scoring. One and done and decide.

Some I think look at that too.

Georgetown requires all tests. But that didn’t help my kid EA anyway. UW 4.0 and a 36ACT (not SS). Legacy is huge there. Legacy get in at 38% where it was 5% acceptance EA early round for kids that weren’t.

That is where schools could really step up. Stop taking less qualified kids, lessee merit just because daddy went there and grandpa too.

Legacy will be much harder to displace. The problem is that legacy is popular with all graduates across all races. You have plenty of URM graduates that are against removing legacy because finally their kids can benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! They're bringing back the tests. To truly want to see who has the chops, they need to do away with super scoring. One and done and decide.

Some I think look at that too.

Georgetown requires all tests. But that didn’t help my kid EA anyway. UW 4.0 and a 36ACT (not SS). Legacy is huge there. Legacy get in at 38% where it was 5% acceptance EA early round for kids that weren’t.

That is where schools could really step up. Stop taking less qualified kids, lessee merit just because daddy went there and grandpa too.

Legacy will be much harder to displace. The problem is that legacy is popular with all graduates across all races. You have plenty of URM graduates that are against removing legacy because finally their kids can benefit.

UVA is dumping it next year. Hopkins already dumped it. Many ivies don’t give it much weight and it only applies to undergrad and a parent (not more distant relative). Georgetown’s policy is incredulous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More announcements will likely be made in the near future ... from The Dartmouth…

“Other institutions are also considering a return to test-required admissions, according to Coffin.

“All of our peer schools are studying it, as we just did,” Coffin said. “I think the question is a really straightforward one: Does the college see an opportunity from the inclusion of more data in the application? And if the answer is no, you don’t need the SAT.””

And if a school truly sees no value from the data point of a SAT/ACT score, it makes sense to go test-blind, as some schools have. But having it be optional makes no sense if it does have any value. I don't think there are any schools that are essay-optional, or EC-optional, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! They're bringing back the tests. To truly want to see who has the chops, they need to do away with super scoring. One and done and decide.

Some I think look at that too.

Georgetown requires all tests. But that didn’t help my kid EA anyway. UW 4.0 and a 36ACT (not SS). Legacy is huge there. Legacy get in at 38% where it was 5% acceptance EA early round for kids that weren’t.

That is where schools could really step up. Stop taking less qualified kids, lessee merit just because daddy went there and grandpa too.

That’s crazy.