Dartmouth Announces Test Scores Required Starting Next Year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article shows why Jackson-Reed HS bats way above its weight class when it comes to elite college admissions.

J-R kids getting a high SAT (1450+) when the school average is closer to 1000 and even worse for DCPS overall are sought after by schools like Dartmouth. Now combine that with some very DC-specific opportunities for interning, leadership, etc and you have a very compelling applicant.

Right, the white upper middle class kids get a major admissions bump. but many of them struggle when they're in college. I know a few (a relative and the kid if a good friend) they are both floundering. Others do fine and even great. But 4 years of crap for high school doesn't work for all kids.

Many do not struggle (somehow just mine and the 10 kids my kid knows are doing very well at college, with my own at a Top 5). Just apparently the two you purport to know. You also seem to now have your own research which refutes the entire thesis of this post...that kids with high SAT scores in fact don't do well in college.

Me thinks your kid was rejected from a top school and you are bitter.

DP
public school booster mom:
Methinks your kid did tons of enrichment activities, attended summer camps, traveled, read independently, had test prep + writing tutors, college admissions counseling (applied ED, too), & most importantly, has full-pay parents…

Uh...no enrichment activities (are the clubs at school with leadership enrichment activities?), no summer camps (other than actually working at a STEM camp)...I don't understand traveling...did some test prep...absolutely no writing tutors (what's the point? for a STEM major)...no college admissions counseling...yes ED, so full pay.

But what is your point? PP was saying JR kids struggle at college, so I guess you are trying to imply we spent thousands on outside resources? Absolutely not the case, and usually not the case for any of the top JR kids.

You have spent thousands on college tuition. You’ll be spending around $250-300K. Not an easy thing for any FGLI student & your kid is an example of the upper middle class students getting an admissions bump b/c JR as PP stated.

I commend you for admitting that you are a full-pay ED family. Most DCUMers like to fib.

PP was implying JR kids struggle at college…my kid actually scored a 1550, so maybe if from JR that made my kid almost a sure admit, but not a low score.

I actually don’t deny we may be benefiting from JR’s overall low scores, but that doesn’t mean kids are struggling at top colleges.

Again, kudos to you for being honest about benefiting from JR as a full-pay UMC family. As to your other statement, ask some professors & TAs about their c/o 2023, 2024, and 2025 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

1400 is not a middling score.

Do you people know anything about standardized tests?

It's a middling score for selective schools.
It's probably high score for 3000+ other schools.
Do you know anything about college admissions?

No it isn’t. Historically that was a score that a number of admits had, or around that score. A 1400 is 95th percentile. A 1500 is 98 percentile, fyi. A 95 percentile score shows you can likely manage the work at an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

It has been for a year or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

1400 is not a middling score.

Do you people know anything about standardized tests?

It's a middling score for selective schools.
It's probably high score for 3000+ other schools.
Do you know anything about college admissions?

No it isn’t. Historically that was a score that a number of admits had, or around that score. A 1400 is 95th percentile. A 1500 is 98 percentile, fyi. A 95 percentile score shows you can likely manage the work at an Ivy.

Nope sorry.
1,400 is well below the 25th percentile for Dartmouth and other Ivies and highly selective schools.
It's not even middling. It's a low score for highly selective scores probably from athletes, URMs, legacies, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article shows why Jackson-Reed HS bats way above its weight class when it comes to elite college admissions.

J-R kids getting a high SAT (1450+) when the school average is closer to 1000 and even worse for DCPS overall are sought after by schools like Dartmouth. Now combine that with some very DC-specific opportunities for interning, leadership, etc and you have a very compelling applicant.

Right, the white upper middle class kids get a major admissions bump. but many of them struggle when they're in college. I know a few (a relative and the kid if a good friend) they are both floundering. Others do fine and even great. But 4 years of crap for high school doesn't work for all kids.

Many do not struggle (somehow just mine and the 10 kids my kid knows are doing very well at college, with my own at a Top 5). Just apparently the two you purport to know. You also seem to now have your own research which refutes the entire thesis of this post...that kids with high SAT scores in fact don't do well in college.

Me thinks your kid was rejected from a top school and you are bitter.

DP
public school booster mom:
Methinks your kid did tons of enrichment activities, attended summer camps, traveled, read independently, had test prep + writing tutors, college admissions counseling (applied ED, too), & most importantly, has full-pay parents…

Uh...no enrichment activities (are the clubs at school with leadership enrichment activities?), no summer camps (other than actually working at a STEM camp)...I don't understand traveling...did some test prep...absolutely no writing tutors (what's the point? for a STEM major)...no college admissions counseling...yes ED, so full pay.

But what is your point? PP was saying JR kids struggle at college, so I guess you are trying to imply we spent thousands on outside resources? Absolutely not the case, and usually not the case for any of the top JR kids.

You have spent thousands on college tuition. You’ll be spending around $250-300K. Not an easy thing for any FGLI student & your kid is an example of the upper middle class students getting an admissions bump b/c JR as PP stated.

I commend you for admitting that you are a full-pay ED family. Most DCUMers like to fib.

PP was implying JR kids struggle at college…my kid actually scored a 1550, so maybe if from JR that made my kid almost a sure admit, but not a low score.

I actually don’t deny we may be benefiting from JR’s overall low scores, but that doesn’t mean kids are struggling at top colleges.

If you don't know JR kids struggling at colleges, you aren't looking very far. it sounds like your kid learned to read and write despite attending JR-as evidenced by his 1550. But many did not and they're from upper middle class families in ward 3. I know a few who are really not doing well in college. They're in way over their heads. I have no doubt that they'll figure it out but denying this is happening (because your kid is doing well) is really insulting to those of us who have it happening to our kids. It's feels really dismissive.

And this is exactly why all kids should submit test. So that those who score a 600 in the English section of the SAT but have perfect grades at a less challenging HS don’t end up at a college that expect the students to be highly capable in reading comp. Same idea behind why MIT wants all students to have almost perfect math scores. I don’t know why people think everyone can read and comprehend at equal levels when it is obvious that is not the case. If that 600 kid went to an highly selective school and was a history major ( or took any class with a lot of reading to absorb and sensitize quickly) they would want to leave, or fail out. Testing helps self selection too, and helps people move past the fancy names to actual find the right cohort fit for themselves based on ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

1400 is not a middling score.

Do you people know anything about standardized tests?

It's a middling score for selective schools.
It's probably high score for 3000+ other schools.
Do you know anything about college admissions?

No it isn’t. Historically that was a score that a number of admits had, or around that score. A 1400 is 95th percentile. A 1500 is 98 percentile, fyi. A 95 percentile score shows you can likely manage the work at an Ivy.

Nope sorry.
1,400 is well below the 25th percentile for Dartmouth and other Ivies and highly selective schools.
It's not even middling. It's a low score for highly selective scores probably from athletes, URMs, legacies, etc.

Yes if you look at the current data that is skewed at all schools by TO the past number of years. Not if you look at data from 10/15 years ago.
And what they are saying is that they would rather find the 95th percentile students from less well off regions who would thrive there than have the kids who don’t score as high but come from Bethesda and have a 4.0.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

1400 is not a middling score.

Do you people know anything about standardized tests?

It's a middling score for selective schools.
It's probably high score for 3000+ other schools.
Do you know anything about college admissions?

No it isn’t. Historically that was a score that a number of admits had, or around that score. A 1400 is 95th percentile. A 1500 is 98 percentile, fyi. A 95 percentile score shows you can likely manage the work at an Ivy.

Nope sorry.
1,400 is well below the 25th percentile for Dartmouth and other Ivies and highly selective schools.
It's not even middling. It's a low score for highly selective scores probably from athletes, URMs, legacies, etc.

Yes if you look at the current data that is skewed at all schools by TO the past number of years. Not if you look at data from 10/15 years ago.
And what they are saying is that they would rather find the 95th percentile students from less well off regions who would thrive there than have the kids who don’t score as high but come from Bethesda and have a 4.0.

Nope, not much change from pre-pandemic when scores were mandatory.
Dartmouth had 50% acceptance rate 30 years ago. That doesn't mean shit today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

1400 is not a middling score.

Do you people know anything about standardized tests?

It's a middling score for selective schools.
It's probably high score for 3000+ other schools.
Do you know anything about college admissions?

No it isn’t. Historically that was a score that a number of admits had, or around that score. A 1400 is 95th percentile. A 1500 is 98 percentile, fyi. A 95 percentile score shows you can likely manage the work at an Ivy.

Nope sorry.
1,400 is well below the 25th percentile for Dartmouth and other Ivies and highly selective schools.
It's not even middling. It's a low score for highly selective scores probably from athletes, URMs, legacies, etc.

Yes if you look at the current data that is skewed at all schools by TO the past number of years. Not if you look at data from 10/15 years ago.
And what they are saying is that they would rather find the 95th percentile students from less well off regions who would thrive there than have the kids who don’t score as high but come from Harlem and have a 4.0.

Also fixed.

If you have 1400 from Bethesda, you are screwed LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think test optional did not help my son, a high-scoring student. It will come too late for him but I am so glad Dartmouth (and hopefully many others) go back that route.

FWIW, at a summer tour of Dartmouth I met an economist (none of the 4 who wrote the piece) who said that he had taught for nearly 30 years and his grade distribution had never been quite so erratic as in the TO years. Dartmouth may spin it the way they have in this article, but they will ALSO benefit from keeping out kids of affluent families who snuck in behind TO.

I wish this movement started earlier.

My 2 high achievers got screwed by test optional.

+1 yep, mine, too.

[Anonymous]

Great! They're bringing back the tests. To truly want to see who has the chops, they need to do away with super scoring. One and done and decide.

[Anonymous]

Folks, a 1350 put you in the middle 50% at Dartmouth in the early 2000s. TO inflated the heck out of average scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article shows why Jackson-Reed HS bats way above its weight class when it comes to elite college admissions.

J-R kids getting a high SAT (1450+) when the school average is closer to 1000 and even worse for DCPS overall are sought after by schools like Dartmouth. Now combine that with some very DC-specific opportunities for interning, leadership, etc and you have a very compelling applicant.

Right, the white upper middle class kids get a major admissions bump. but many of them struggle when they're in college. I know a few (a relative and the kid if a good friend) they are both floundering. Others do fine and even great. But 4 years of crap for high school doesn't work for all kids.

Many do not struggle (somehow just mine and the 10 kids my kid knows are doing very well at college, with my own at a Top 5). Just apparently the two you purport to know. You also seem to now have your own research which refutes the entire thesis of this post...that kids with high SAT scores in fact don't do well in college.

Me thinks your kid was rejected from a top school and you are bitter.

DP
public school booster mom:
Methinks your kid did tons of enrichment activities, attended summer camps, traveled, read independently, had test prep + writing tutors, college admissions counseling (applied ED, too), & most importantly, has full-pay parents…

Uh...no enrichment activities (are the clubs at school with leadership enrichment activities?), no summer camps (other than actually working at a STEM camp)...I don't understand traveling...did some test prep...absolutely no writing tutors (what's the point? for a STEM major)...no college admissions counseling...yes ED, so full pay.

But what is your point? PP was saying JR kids struggle at college, so I guess you are trying to imply we spent thousands on outside resources? Absolutely not the case, and usually not the case for any of the top JR kids.

You have spent thousands on college tuition. You’ll be spending around $250-300K. Not an easy thing for any FGLI student & your kid is an example of the upper middle class students getting an admissions bump b/c JR as PP stated.

I commend you for admitting that you are a full-pay ED family. Most DCUMers like to fib.

PP was implying JR kids struggle at college…my kid actually scored a 1550, so maybe if from JR that made my kid almost a sure admit, but not a low score.

I actually don’t deny we may be benefiting from JR’s overall low scores, but that doesn’t mean kids are struggling at top colleges.

If you don't know JR kids struggling at colleges, you aren't looking very far. it sounds like your kid learned to read and write despite attending JR-as evidenced by his 1550. But many did not and they're from upper middle class families in ward 3. I know a few who are really not doing well in college. They're in way over their heads. I have no doubt that they'll figure it out but denying this is happening (because your kid is doing well) is really insulting to those of us who have it happening to our kids. It's feels really dismissive.

Did your kid go to JR? Again, mine did. I know at least a dozen kids in college and they all are doing from good to great academically at college. My kid took 13 APs plus dual enrollment at GW and his friends were similar. I mean…I am not going to just randomly seek out kids outside my kid’s friend group.

Did your kid seek out AP classes? Did your kid pursue dual enrollment? The school does offer classes that do prepare kids for college (including actual college classes at GW, Georgetown, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Folks, a 1350 put you in the middle 50% at Dartmouth in the early 2000s. TO inflated the heck out of average scores

THIS!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the article - it suggests 1400 AND being from an inner city high school or school lacking resources would get in. But NOT an upper middle class DCUM DS or DD with a 1400. Point being if you managed a 1400 without out all the resources and benefits you probably have the grit and intellect to hold your own.

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

1400 is not a middling score.

Do you people know anything about standardized tests?

It's a middling score for selective schools.
It's probably high score for 3000+ other schools.
Do you know anything about college admissions?

No it isn’t. Historically that was a score that a number of admits had, or around that score. A 1400 is 95th percentile. A 1500 is 98 percentile, fyi. A 95 percentile score shows you can likely manage the work at an Ivy.

Nope sorry.
1,400 is well below the 25th percentile for Dartmouth and other Ivies and highly selective schools.
It's not even middling. It's a low score for highly selective scores probably from athletes, URMs, legacies, etc.

There are plenty of athletes with scores lower than 1400. Go listen to the YouTube of the Yale lacrosse coach. Plenty scoring in the 1200s and 1300s.

It is also plenty high for kids to do well at any school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So go to a crap high school and get a middling score will be the new playbook?

Class rank has been a significant component of college admissions forever.