New VA trans policies for schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will keep calling my kids by what they want to be called
You can fire me Youngkin

Why? What academic value does it provide to students for you to do so vs just calling them their name.

I will answer for you - None.

NP. I disagree. Learning is impacted by environment and the emotional state of the student and the rapport with the teacher. If the student doesn't respect the teacher, their learning will not be optimized. And if a teacher refuses to afford the student the simple respect of calling them by their preferred name, that erodes the student's respect for the teacher and the rapport between the two. If a student feels more comfortable in the class, they will have a better learning experience. And respectfully honoring their preferred name facilitates a more comfortable classroom - for everyone.

I’m not sure the trade off is worth it. Affirming delusions is harmful, a teacher that affirms that humans can change sex is indoctrinating students with dangerous falsehoods.

^^^ Opinion

You may disagree that affirming falsehoods is not harmful. But humans cannot change sex. This is a fact, not an opinion.

This all doesn’t matter. We can agree to disagree. The question is - does calling a child by their pronoun have a profound effect on their mental well being? If it does then the parent should know. We are not discussing nicknames here.

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on trying child suspects as adults for heinous crimes they are accused of?

??? why?

My guess is that it is some sort of weird trans rights poster who is comparing children’s ability to elect gender affirming care without parental input to a child’s decision to be criminal and if you believe in trying kids as adults, you also have to be in favor of letting them elect gender affirmative care. Or something like that.

FWIW I don’t think children can adequately consent to any of the medical procedures and I don’t think they should be tried as adults.

No one performs trans-affirming medical procedures on children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that if it is indeed true that not calling a child by their preferred name will lead to the child’s suicide, that is a grave medical risk that properly needs to be immediately disclosed to parents.

My kid had a warning sent home when her teacher thought she wasn’t seeing the board properly. Teachers regularly flag potential injuries with far less impact. The idea of a teacher believing that not using a name will lead to a child’s suicide but then not disclosing that to the parents is actually horrifying.

Yup that is exactly what progressives want. And when and adult, especially one in authority have vulnerable children keep secrets from their parents, telling them that they are the only grown-ups that really care and understand them is the exact M.O. of grooming.

Look at every case of adults preying on children, they all follow this recipe. Priests, boy scout leaders, etc all did this to horrific ends.

But for some reason, teachers seem to think they are different when using the same approach.

Teachers don't go into the profession so they can prey on children (except the individual child molesters who seek out professions and opportunities to put themselves in position to do so - and teachers as a group are not those people). Grooming is an intentional and proactive pursuit. Teachers honoring a student's request to use a pronoun or name is not grooming. Grooming also would involve the teacher telling the child to keep the secret, not the other way around. Teachers are not picking children, buddying up to them, asking students who have never considered their gender identity whether they are aware they can change and then encourage and show them how to go about doing it. Teachers aren't looking around and asking kids if they'd like to be called by some name the teacher suggests or pronoun the teacher suggests. That's ludicrous. Grooming is initiated by the groomer. Trans kids asking teachers to call them something different is initiated by the trans kid. And unless the child tells the teacher or the teacher asks the parents, they have no way of knowing whether or not the parents are aware. Or at least they didn't - now they will because they have to have written permission from the parent to honor a student's request.

You are being disingenuous. First of all you are calling the student who is asking for their pronoun to be changed a “trans kid.” Therefore you recognize that this is not the same as a simple nickname change. Why on earth would you affirm this child’s gender identity without telling the parent? This is a medical issue. Presumably a child who has gender dysphoria would need counseling and see an endocrinologist if the medical route of puberty blockers is chosen. This is not something that should be hidden from the parent. It is absolutely disgusting that you think that this should be the case. I agree that Youngkin’s guidance goes too far. But I disagree that a school should hide from a parent that their child is now identifying with a gender different than their biological sex. Gender affirming care is exactly what it sounds like - a treatment path that involves affirming the gender that a child is identifying with. US Medical associations are of the belief that affirming the gender a child is associating with is the best way to deal with gender dysphoria. Whether people agree with this or not is not relevant. What is relevant is it is a treatment path that after numerous studies, US Medical organizations believe to be best practice. It’s a result it makes absolutely no sense for schools hide this information from the parents. Now if schools believe that a child will be subject to harm from the parents then there is already a pathway for that since teachers are mandated reporters.

I'm not being disingenuous. My point is that teachers aren't "grooming."

My subsequent point is: I'm also not convinced that it's a teacher's responsibility to contact the parents of every child to make sure they're "conforming" to their given birth names/family accepted nicknames/gender. And my last sentence kind of addresses that: if parents need to provide written permission, then teachers will know.

TBH, I don't understand why a teacher can't say to a student without parental permission who is asking to be called a different name, etc., "I'm sorry. I'm not permitted to call you '______' without permission from your parents." But I suppose the teachers will be required to report to the parent the fact that there child even made the request; and I think that's an unnecessary responsibility for teachers. As is a teacher having to notify parents if they hear the kids' friends calling them something else.

Would I want to know if it were my kid? Absolutely. But it's on me, not the teacher. Perhaps I'm being naive; but I see one of two situations: (1) the kid will be happy and comfortable in school and doing well without my knowing about their "secret life" and will ultimately tell me when they're ready and feel comfortable doing so or (2) the kid won't be doing well and the school will notify me that they believe there may be some mental health issues needing addressed, then I follow-up with my child. After all, y'all keep saying parents are the sole responsible parties.

You are acting as if calling a child by their preferred nickname and preferred gender are at the same level. The former is a nickname. The second indicates that a child identifies to a gender that is different than their biological sex. There are no medical protocols, studies etc for a child who asks to be called by a specific nickname. The former however has an entire protocol - in the US, medical associations follow what is now known as gender affirming care. Scandinavians and the UK used to follow what is called the Dutch protocol which they no longer recommend. Don’t conflate the two. Don’t pretend there is no difference. Yes. If a child, who is biologically female, suddenly decides that she will be using male pronouns, using the boys bathroom and playing on the boys sport team, that child’s parents have the right to know. If that child decides to go a different nickname then yes, who cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that if it is indeed true that not calling a child by their preferred name will lead to the child’s suicide, that is a grave medical risk that properly needs to be immediately disclosed to parents.

My kid had a warning sent home when her teacher thought she wasn’t seeing the board properly. Teachers regularly flag potential injuries with far less impact. The idea of a teacher believing that not using a name will lead to a child’s suicide but then not disclosing that to the parents is actually horrifying.

Yup that is exactly what progressives want. And when and adult, especially one in authority have vulnerable children keep secrets from their parents, telling them that they are the only grown-ups that really care and understand them is the exact M.O. of grooming.

Look at every case of adults preying on children, they all follow this recipe. Priests, boy scout leaders, etc all did this to horrific ends.

But for some reason, teachers seem to think they are different when using the same approach.

Teachers don't go into the profession so they can prey on children (except the individual child molesters who seek out professions and opportunities to put themselves in position to do so - and teachers as a group are not those people). Grooming is an intentional and proactive pursuit. Teachers honoring a student's request to use a pronoun or name is not grooming. Grooming also would involve the teacher telling the child to keep the secret, not the other way around. Teachers are not picking children, buddying up to them, asking students who have never considered their gender identity whether they are aware they can change and then encourage and show them how to go about doing it. Teachers aren't looking around and asking kids if they'd like to be called by some name the teacher suggests or pronoun the teacher suggests. That's ludicrous. Grooming is initiated by the groomer. Trans kids asking teachers to call them something different is initiated by the trans kid. And unless the child tells the teacher or the teacher asks the parents, they have no way of knowing whether or not the parents are aware. Or at least they didn't - now they will because they have to have written permission from the parent to honor a student's request.

You are being disingenuous. First of all you are calling the student who is asking for their pronoun to be changed a “trans kid.” Therefore you recognize that this is not the same as a simple nickname change. Why on earth would you affirm this child’s gender identity without telling the parent? This is a medical issue. Presumably a child who has gender dysphoria would need counseling and see an endocrinologist if the medical route of puberty blockers is chosen. This is not something that should be hidden from the parent. It is absolutely disgusting that you think that this should be the case. I agree that Youngkin’s guidance goes too far. But I disagree that a school should hide from a parent that their child is now identifying with a gender different than their biological sex. Gender affirming care is exactly what it sounds like - a treatment path that involves affirming the gender that a child is identifying with. US Medical associations are of the belief that affirming the gender a child is associating with is the best way to deal with gender dysphoria. Whether people agree with this or not is not relevant. What is relevant is it is a treatment path that after numerous studies, US Medical organizations believe to be best practice. It’s a result it makes absolutely no sense for schools hide this information from the parents. Now if schools believe that a child will be subject to harm from the parents then there is already a pathway for that since teachers are mandated reporters.

I'm not being disingenuous. My point is that teachers aren't "grooming."

My subsequent point is: I'm also not convinced that it's a teacher's responsibility to contact the parents of every child to make sure they're "conforming" to their given birth names/family accepted nicknames/gender. And my last sentence kind of addresses that: if parents need to provide written permission, then teachers will know.

TBH, I don't understand why a teacher can't say to a student without parental permission who is asking to be called a different name, etc., "I'm sorry. I'm not permitted to call you '______' without permission from your parents." But I suppose the teachers will be required to report to the parent the fact that there child even made the request; and I think that's an unnecessary responsibility for teachers. As is a teacher having to notify parents if they hear the kids' friends calling them something else.

Would I want to know if it were my kid? Absolutely. But it's on me, not the teacher. Perhaps I'm being naive; but I see one of two situations: (1) the kid will be happy and comfortable in school and doing well without my knowing about their "secret life" and will ultimately tell me when they're ready and feel comfortable doing so or (2) the kid won't be doing well and the school will notify me that they believe there may be some mental health issues needing addressed, then I follow-up with my child. After all, y'all keep saying parents are the sole responsible parties.

You are acting as if calling a child by their preferred nickname and preferred gender are at the same level. The former is a nickname. The second indicates that a child identifies to a gender that is different than their biological sex. There are no medical protocols, studies etc for a child who asks to be called by a specific nickname. The former however has an entire protocol - in the US, medical associations follow what is now known as gender affirming care. Scandinavians and the UK used to follow what is called the Dutch protocol which they no longer recommend. Don’t conflate the two. Don’t pretend there is no difference. Yes. If a child, who is biologically female, suddenly decides that she will be using male pronouns, using the boys bathroom and playing on the boys sport team, that child’s parents have the right to know. If that child decides to go a different nickname then yes, who cares.

Meant to say identifies with. Apologies. English isn’t my first language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will keep calling my kids by what they want to be called
You can fire me Youngkin

Why? What academic value does it provide to students for you to do so vs just calling them their name.

I will answer for you - None.

NP. I disagree. Learning is impacted by environment and the emotional state of the student and the rapport with the teacher. If the student doesn't respect the teacher, their learning will not be optimized. And if a teacher refuses to afford the student the simple respect of calling them by their preferred name, that erodes the student's respect for the teacher and the rapport between the two. If a student feels more comfortable in the class, they will have a better learning experience. And respectfully honoring their preferred name facilitates a more comfortable classroom - for everyone.

I’m not sure the trade off is worth it. Affirming delusions is harmful, a teacher that affirms that humans can change sex is indoctrinating students with dangerous falsehoods.

^^^ Opinion

You may disagree that affirming falsehoods is not harmful. But humans cannot change sex. This is a fact, not an opinion.

This all doesn’t matter. We can agree to disagree. The question is - does calling a child by their pronoun have a profound effect on their mental well being? If it does then the parent should know. We are not discussing nicknames here.

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on trying child suspects as adults for heinous crimes they are accused of?

??? why?

My guess is that it is some sort of weird trans rights poster who is comparing children’s ability to elect gender affirming care without parental input to a child’s decision to be criminal and if you believe in trying kids as adults, you also have to be in favor of letting them elect gender affirmative care. Or something like that.

FWIW I don’t think children can adequately consent to any of the medical procedures and I don’t think they should be tried as adults.

No one performs trans-affirming medical procedures on children.

We all know this is false. Come on. The children who have had these surgeries have put their own videos out there. Please stop gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will keep calling my kids by what they want to be called
You can fire me Youngkin

Why? What academic value does it provide to students for you to do so vs just calling them their name.

I will answer for you - None.

NP. I disagree. Learning is impacted by environment and the emotional state of the student and the rapport with the teacher. If the student doesn't respect the teacher, their learning will not be optimized. And if a teacher refuses to afford the student the simple respect of calling them by their preferred name, that erodes the student's respect for the teacher and the rapport between the two. If a student feels more comfortable in the class, they will have a better learning experience. And respectfully honoring their preferred name facilitates a more comfortable classroom - for everyone.

I’m not sure the trade off is worth it. Affirming delusions is harmful, a teacher that affirms that humans can change sex is indoctrinating students with dangerous falsehoods.

^^^ Opinion

You may disagree that affirming falsehoods is not harmful. But humans cannot change sex. This is a fact, not an opinion.

This all doesn’t matter. We can agree to disagree. The question is - does calling a child by their pronoun have a profound effect on their mental well being? If it does then the parent should know. We are not discussing nicknames here.

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on trying child suspects as adults for heinous crimes they are accused of?

??? why?

My guess is that it is some sort of weird trans rights poster who is comparing children’s ability to elect gender affirming care without parental input to a child’s decision to be criminal and if you believe in trying kids as adults, you also have to be in favor of letting them elect gender affirmative care. Or something like that.

FWIW I don’t think children can adequately consent to any of the medical procedures and I don’t think they should be tried as adults.

Ah. Knew it must be something stupid.
I'm not understanding why people think teens are pursuing gender affirming medical care behind their parents' backs. Actual medical care isn't happening without adult permission and I really don't think teachers have the authority to authorize that kind of medical treatment for their students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that if it is indeed true that not calling a child by their preferred name will lead to the child’s suicide, that is a grave medical risk that properly needs to be immediately disclosed to parents.

My kid had a warning sent home when her teacher thought she wasn’t seeing the board properly. Teachers regularly flag potential injuries with far less impact. The idea of a teacher believing that not using a name will lead to a child’s suicide but then not disclosing that to the parents is actually horrifying.

Yup that is exactly what progressives want. And when and adult, especially one in authority have vulnerable children keep secrets from their parents, telling them that they are the only grown-ups that really care and understand them is the exact M.O. of grooming.

Look at every case of adults preying on children, they all follow this recipe. Priests, boy scout leaders, etc all did this to horrific ends.

But for some reason, teachers seem to think they are different when using the same approach.

Teachers don't go into the profession so they can prey on children (except the individual child molesters who seek out professions and opportunities to put themselves in position to do so - and teachers as a group are not those people). Grooming is an intentional and proactive pursuit. Teachers honoring a student's request to use a pronoun or name is not grooming. Grooming also would involve the teacher telling the child to keep the secret, not the other way around. Teachers are not picking children, buddying up to them, asking students who have never considered their gender identity whether they are aware they can change and then encourage and show them how to go about doing it. Teachers aren't looking around and asking kids if they'd like to be called by some name the teacher suggests or pronoun the teacher suggests. That's ludicrous. Grooming is initiated by the groomer. Trans kids asking teachers to call them something different is initiated by the trans kid. And unless the child tells the teacher or the teacher asks the parents, they have no way of knowing whether or not the parents are aware. Or at least they didn't - now they will because they have to have written permission from the parent to honor a student's request.

You are being disingenuous. First of all you are calling the student who is asking for their pronoun to be changed a “trans kid.” Therefore you recognize that this is not the same as a simple nickname change. Why on earth would you affirm this child’s gender identity without telling the parent? This is a medical issue. Presumably a child who has gender dysphoria would need counseling and see an endocrinologist if the medical route of puberty blockers is chosen. This is not something that should be hidden from the parent. It is absolutely disgusting that you think that this should be the case. I agree that Youngkin’s guidance goes too far. But I disagree that a school should hide from a parent that their child is now identifying with a gender different than their biological sex. Gender affirming care is exactly what it sounds like - a treatment path that involves affirming the gender that a child is identifying with. US Medical associations are of the belief that affirming the gender a child is associating with is the best way to deal with gender dysphoria. Whether people agree with this or not is not relevant. What is relevant is it is a treatment path that after numerous studies, US Medical organizations believe to be best practice. It’s a result it makes absolutely no sense for schools hide this information from the parents. Now if schools believe that a child will be subject to harm from the parents then there is already a pathway for that since teachers are mandated reporters.

I'm not being disingenuous. My point is that teachers aren't "grooming."

My subsequent point is: I'm also not convinced that it's a teacher's responsibility to contact the parents of every child to make sure they're "conforming" to their given birth names/family accepted nicknames/gender. And my last sentence kind of addresses that: if parents need to provide written permission, then teachers will know.

TBH, I don't understand why a teacher can't say to a student without parental permission who is asking to be called a different name, etc., "I'm sorry. I'm not permitted to call you '______' without permission from your parents." But I suppose the teachers will be required to report to the parent the fact that there child even made the request; and I think that's an unnecessary responsibility for teachers. As is a teacher having to notify parents if they hear the kids' friends calling them something else.

Would I want to know if it were my kid? Absolutely. But it's on me, not the teacher. Perhaps I'm being naive; but I see one of two situations: (1) the kid will be happy and comfortable in school and doing well without my knowing about their "secret life" and will ultimately tell me when they're ready and feel comfortable doing so or (2) the kid won't be doing well and the school will notify me that they believe there may be some mental health issues needing addressed, then I follow-up with my child. After all, y'all keep saying parents are the sole responsible parties.

You are acting as if calling a child by their preferred nickname and preferred gender are at the same level. The former is a nickname. The second indicates that a child identifies to a gender that is different than their biological sex. There are no medical protocols, studies etc for a child who asks to be called by a specific nickname. The former however has an entire protocol - in the US, medical associations follow what is now known as gender affirming care. Scandinavians and the UK used to follow what is called the Dutch protocol which they no longer recommend. Don’t conflate the two. Don’t pretend there is no difference. Yes. If a child, who is biologically female, suddenly decides that she will be using male pronouns, using the boys bathroom and playing on the boys sport team, that child’s parents have the right to know. If that child decides to go a different nickname then yes, who cares.

I'm not talking about normal nicknames. I'm talking about "john" instead of "susan." That's something you're insisting teachers tell parents, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will keep calling my kids by what they want to be called
You can fire me Youngkin

Why? What academic value does it provide to students for you to do so vs just calling them their name.

I will answer for you - None.

NP. I disagree. Learning is impacted by environment and the emotional state of the student and the rapport with the teacher. If the student doesn't respect the teacher, their learning will not be optimized. And if a teacher refuses to afford the student the simple respect of calling them by their preferred name, that erodes the student's respect for the teacher and the rapport between the two. If a student feels more comfortable in the class, they will have a better learning experience. And respectfully honoring their preferred name facilitates a more comfortable classroom - for everyone.

I’m not sure the trade off is worth it. Affirming delusions is harmful, a teacher that affirms that humans can change sex is indoctrinating students with dangerous falsehoods.

^^^ Opinion

You may disagree that affirming falsehoods is not harmful. But humans cannot change sex. This is a fact, not an opinion.

This all doesn’t matter. We can agree to disagree. The question is - does calling a child by their pronoun have a profound effect on their mental well being? If it does then the parent should know. We are not discussing nicknames here.

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on trying child suspects as adults for heinous crimes they are accused of?

??? why?

My guess is that it is some sort of weird trans rights poster who is comparing children’s ability to elect gender affirming care without parental input to a child’s decision to be criminal and if you believe in trying kids as adults, you also have to be in favor of letting them elect gender affirmative care. Or something like that.

FWIW I don’t think children can adequately consent to any of the medical procedures and I don’t think they should be tried as adults.

No one performs trans-affirming medical procedures on children.

By definition, puberty blockers are given at the beginning of puberty. That’s medical treatment on children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will keep calling my kids by what they want to be called
You can fire me Youngkin

Why? What academic value does it provide to students for you to do so vs just calling them their name.

I will answer for you - None.

NP. I disagree. Learning is impacted by environment and the emotional state of the student and the rapport with the teacher. If the student doesn't respect the teacher, their learning will not be optimized. And if a teacher refuses to afford the student the simple respect of calling them by their preferred name, that erodes the student's respect for the teacher and the rapport between the two. If a student feels more comfortable in the class, they will have a better learning experience. And respectfully honoring their preferred name facilitates a more comfortable classroom - for everyone.

I’m not sure the trade off is worth it. Affirming delusions is harmful, a teacher that affirms that humans can change sex is indoctrinating students with dangerous falsehoods.

^^^ Opinion

You may disagree that affirming falsehoods is not harmful. But humans cannot change sex. This is a fact, not an opinion.

This all doesn’t matter. We can agree to disagree. The question is - does calling a child by their pronoun have a profound effect on their mental well being? If it does then the parent should know. We are not discussing nicknames here.

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on trying child suspects as adults for heinous crimes they are accused of?

??? why?

My guess is that it is some sort of weird trans rights poster who is comparing children’s ability to elect gender affirming care without parental input to a child’s decision to be criminal and if you believe in trying kids as adults, you also have to be in favor of letting them elect gender affirmative care. Or something like that.

FWIW I don’t think children can adequately consent to any of the medical procedures and I don’t think they should be tried as adults.

No one performs trans-affirming medical procedures on children.

By definition, puberty blockers are given at the beginning of puberty. That’s medical treatment on children.

Not being administered without parental/guardian permission, however. So the parents are already aware. Therefore, no need for the teachers to inform them.

[Anonymous]

I suppose a lot of this depends on whether you see social transition in school as the beginning of a medical transition or something independent of medical transition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will keep calling my kids by what they want to be called
You can fire me Youngkin

Why? What academic value does it provide to students for you to do so vs just calling them their name.

I will answer for you - None.

NP. I disagree. Learning is impacted by environment and the emotional state of the student and the rapport with the teacher. If the student doesn't respect the teacher, their learning will not be optimized. And if a teacher refuses to afford the student the simple respect of calling them by their preferred name, that erodes the student's respect for the teacher and the rapport between the two. If a student feels more comfortable in the class, they will have a better learning experience. And respectfully honoring their preferred name facilitates a more comfortable classroom - for everyone.

I’m not sure the trade off is worth it. Affirming delusions is harmful, a teacher that affirms that humans can change sex is indoctrinating students with dangerous falsehoods.

^^^ Opinion

You may disagree that affirming falsehoods is not harmful. But humans cannot change sex. This is a fact, not an opinion.

This all doesn’t matter. We can agree to disagree. The question is - does calling a child by their pronoun have a profound effect on their mental well being? If it does then the parent should know. We are not discussing nicknames here.

Out of curiosity, where do you stand on trying child suspects as adults for heinous crimes they are accused of?

??? why?

My guess is that it is some sort of weird trans rights poster who is comparing children’s ability to elect gender affirming care without parental input to a child’s decision to be criminal and if you believe in trying kids as adults, you also have to be in favor of letting them elect gender affirmative care. Or something like that.

FWIW I don’t think children can adequately consent to any of the medical procedures and I don’t think they should be tried as adults.

No one performs trans-affirming medical procedures on children.

By definition, puberty blockers are given at the beginning of puberty. That’s medical treatment on children.

Not being administered without parental/guardian permission, however. So the parents are already aware. Therefore, no need for the teachers to inform them.

That’s not the point. Pp said that no children are getting trans-affirming medical procedures. That is a lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suppose a lot of this depends on whether you see social transition in school as the beginning of a medical transition or something independent of medical transition.

It’s not the case for all, obviously, but it certainly is true for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think that if it is indeed true that not calling a child by their preferred name will lead to the child’s suicide, that is a grave medical risk that properly needs to be immediately disclosed to parents.

My kid had a warning sent home when her teacher thought she wasn’t seeing the board properly. Teachers regularly flag potential injuries with far less impact. The idea of a teacher believing that not using a name will lead to a child’s suicide but then not disclosing that to the parents is actually horrifying.

Yup that is exactly what progressives want. And when and adult, especially one in authority have vulnerable children keep secrets from their parents, telling them that they are the only grown-ups that really care and understand them is the exact M.O. of grooming.

Look at every case of adults preying on children, they all follow this recipe. Priests, boy scout leaders, etc all did this to horrific ends.

But for some reason, teachers seem to think they are different when using the same approach.

Teachers don't go into the profession so they can prey on children (except the individual child molesters who seek out professions and opportunities to put themselves in position to do so - and teachers as a group are not those people). Grooming is an intentional and proactive pursuit. Teachers honoring a student's request to use a pronoun or name is not grooming. Grooming also would involve the teacher telling the child to keep the secret, not the other way around. Teachers are not picking children, buddying up to them, asking students who have never considered their gender identity whether they are aware they can change and then encourage and show them how to go about doing it. Teachers aren't looking around and asking kids if they'd like to be called by some name the teacher suggests or pronoun the teacher suggests. That's ludicrous. Grooming is initiated by the groomer. Trans kids asking teachers to call them something different is initiated by the trans kid. And unless the child tells the teacher or the teacher asks the parents, they have no way of knowing whether or not the parents are aware. Or at least they didn't - now they will because they have to have written permission from the parent to honor a student's request.

You are being disingenuous. First of all you are calling the student who is asking for their pronoun to be changed a “trans kid.” Therefore you recognize that this is not the same as a simple nickname change. Why on earth would you affirm this child’s gender identity without telling the parent? This is a medical issue. Presumably a child who has gender dysphoria would need counseling and see an endocrinologist if the medical route of puberty blockers is chosen. This is not something that should be hidden from the parent. It is absolutely disgusting that you think that this should be the case. I agree that Youngkin’s guidance goes too far. But I disagree that a school should hide from a parent that their child is now identifying with a gender different than their biological sex. Gender affirming care is exactly what it sounds like - a treatment path that involves affirming the gender that a child is identifying with. US Medical associations are of the belief that affirming the gender a child is associating with is the best way to deal with gender dysphoria. Whether people agree with this or not is not relevant. What is relevant is it is a treatment path that after numerous studies, US Medical organizations believe to be best practice. It’s a result it makes absolutely no sense for schools hide this information from the parents. Now if schools believe that a child will be subject to harm from the parents then there is already a pathway for that since teachers are mandated reporters.

I'm not being disingenuous. My point is that teachers aren't "grooming."

My subsequent point is: I'm also not convinced that it's a teacher's responsibility to contact the parents of every child to make sure they're "conforming" to their given birth names/family accepted nicknames/gender. And my last sentence kind of addresses that: if parents need to provide written permission, then teachers will know.

TBH, I don't understand why a teacher can't say to a student without parental permission who is asking to be called a different name, etc., "I'm sorry. I'm not permitted to call you '______' without permission from your parents." But I suppose the teachers will be required to report to the parent the fact that there child even made the request; and I think that's an unnecessary responsibility for teachers. As is a teacher having to notify parents if they hear the kids' friends calling them something else.

Would I want to know if it were my kid? Absolutely. But it's on me, not the teacher. Perhaps I'm being naive; but I see one of two situations: (1) the kid will be happy and comfortable in school and doing well without my knowing about their "secret life" and will ultimately tell me when they're ready and feel comfortable doing so or (2) the kid won't be doing well and the school will notify me that they believe there may be some mental health issues needing addressed, then I follow-up with my child. After all, y'all keep saying parents are the sole responsible parties.

You are acting as if calling a child by their preferred nickname and preferred gender are at the same level. The former is a nickname. The second indicates that a child identifies to a gender that is different than their biological sex. There are no medical protocols, studies etc for a child who asks to be called by a specific nickname. The former however has an entire protocol - in the US, medical associations follow what is now known as gender affirming care. Scandinavians and the UK used to follow what is called the Dutch protocol which they no longer recommend. Don’t conflate the two. Don’t pretend there is no difference. Yes. If a child, who is biologically female, suddenly decides that she will be using male pronouns, using the boys bathroom and playing on the boys sport team, that child’s parents have the right to know. If that child decides to go a different nickname then yes, who cares.

I'm not talking about normal nicknames. I'm talking about "john" instead of "susan." That's something you're insisting teachers tell parents, isn't it?

If Susan suddenly wants to go by John then I am assuming Susan no longer views herself as a girl - the gender she identifies with (I’m assuming here that John is a male name) no longer corresponds to her biological sex. I’m assuming that the majority of teachers would recognize this. It’s not that hard. Susan suddenly wants to be called John. Hmm maybe it means that she wants to socially transition to a boy by asking others to refer to her by male pronouns and use a name that is associated with a gender that is not her biological sex. Then yes of course Susan/John’s parents should know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suppose a lot of this depends on whether you see social transition in school as the beginning of a medical transition or something independent of medical transition.

It’s not the case for all, obviously, but it certainly is true for some.

Social transition is an indication of gender dysphoria which is a medical condition. Why on earth would a child socially transition unless they feel that they are a gender that is different than the gender that corresponds to their biological sex.

[Anonymous]

If you're so worried about a teacher keeping this information from you, make sure you're creating a home environment where your child knows they can come out to YOU safely, and this won't be a problem.

The kids who have come out to me and asked me to keep it quiet are terrified of their parents finding out. They're terrified of being beaten or kicked out.

[Anonymous]

My 9th grade DD has a girl at her school who changes her name/pronouns based on how she feels each day. She has a necklace and which charm she puts on the necklace indicates how she wants to be addressed that day. And if you accidentally use yesterday’s or last week’s name/pronouns she gets offended.

I am not making this up.