UHC CEO Gunned Down in Midtown Manhattan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

Because Luigi was mad and needed to blame someone for his problems.

[Anonymous]

Anyone wonder if something about the surgery (screws used, any nerves or whatever that were hit) may have had some neurological impact?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Preventative care is where it's at, that's true. I hope you don't ever have an ailment and discomfort on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst pain you've ever felt in your life, and then your health insurance denies your claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

[Anonymous]

Seems like classic definition of violent extremism; ideologies that move into realm where violence becomes acceptable to achieve goals. You see this in all kinds of political, environmental, or social movements. His Italian heritage made me think about the political violence in Italy in the 1960s-1980s.

His thinking seems steeped in symbolism. His elite education probably included the classics of history of political thought and movements. He seems to be railing against a system that he sees as rigid and exploitative and harms people, and the highly-paid UHC CEO was the initial target of that system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

You are posting this despite multiple others telling stories about how legitimate and necessary care was denied at the exact time it was needed, and also despite a fair amount of evidence that insurance companies routinely deny as a matter of practice.

Keep saying this if it makes you feel better. I’m sure your beliefs are very reassuring. After all, if what you believe is true, it means that you and those you love will never, when the time comes, be denied care for the sake on enhancing a billion dollar corporation’s bottom line. It can’t possibly happen to you, right? Because you, unlike all these others, are the logical and level-headed one.

Or who knows? Maybe it will happen to you and some anonymous rando who knows nothing whatsoever about your experience will offer up all the reasons why it’s totally fine, the problem isn’t your insurer refusing to honor their contract, it’s just that you expected too much.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

We live in a large country with hundreds of millions of people with a similar number of guns. It's a big number.
Given how upset people are about things beyond that are beyond their control (healthcare industry, climate change, war in the Middle East) I'm actually surprised there aren't more people who lash out against the individuals they see as the benefiting from the suffering.

Hundreds of millions and One Guy goes off and kills a CEO this year? Sadly, I would have bet the over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Preventative care is where it's at, that's true. I hope you don't ever have an ailment and discomfort on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst pain you've ever felt in your life, and then your health insurance denies your claims.

You can both be right. On an individual level, of course you want you and your loved ones to have the best care. On a macro level, it’s not sustainable unless people are willing to pay a lot more for health insurance or taxes. My parent is almost 90 and has a rare painful condition for which they are receiving this incredibly cool new miracle treatment (someone comes to the house) that was only invented in the last year or two and which involves some sort of a lab grown biologic. And either Medicate or UHC is paying for it—my parent definitely is not! On a personal level, I’m thrilled. But man this is expensive.

Recall that in the past decade or so we got rid of preexisting condition exclusions and life time maximums (yay ACA!), required mental health coverage parity, and prohibited surprise billing for out of network services ….. well, it’s not surprising that squeezed balloon is going to pop in other places, which includes insurance trying to cut down on potentially abusive claims. Something has to give especially if employers and consumers won’t pay more. I’m sure there are more regulatory solutions needed, but I’m also not optimistic we we’ll get anything sensible inn the next 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like classic definition of violent extremism; ideologies that move into realm where violence becomes acceptable to achieve goals. You see this in all kinds of political, environmental, or social movements. His Italian heritage made me think about the political violence in Italy in the 1960s-1980s.

His thinking seems steeped in symbolism. His elite education probably included the classics of history of political thought and movements. He seems to be railing against a system that he sees as rigid and exploitative and harms people, and the highly-paid UHC CEO was the initial target of that system.

Was he born in Italy? Did he live in Italy during that time?

It was really shocking to me how many stories including from providers came out of this shooting. Overwhelmingly people view the shooter as a hero of sorts, without knowing the full details.

Americans are understandingly upset at companies like United Health.

I am choosing my healthcare plan. Because I now work for myself, I have a choice to pick the plan I want. I absolutely will not pick United.

Providers are on social media, dropping United.

This is what needs to happen. People, employers, providers, need to drop United Health. If they're a PITA, don't use them. Hit them in the pocket books. Don't make it profitable for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If there’s anybody doubting that they got the right guy, he is now been forensically tied to the crime scene through his fingerprints.

Tell the TikTok people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The young ones are also taking no crap from Josh Shapiro about this. They are very upset with him and also treating this situation as "unserious" as they say. It is interesting how the 'support' for Mangione doesn't seem based in political ideology, but rather social/power strata differences.

https://www.tiktok.com/@spacepinata/video/7446908246150974763?lang=en

https://www.tiktok.com/@dulcedeletii/video/7446569595961412906

Yeah. Mangione was a member of the underclass. /s

But even the wealthy get f***ed by insurance companies. We have a HHI but had a huge problem with an insurance company. I completely understand Mangione’s rage. I have felt it (still do from time to time) but obviously I didn’t go shoot the CEO of Aetna. I was literally running the cost of suing Aetna against the cost of paying for a procedure out of pocket. Suing a large insurance company is super expensive because they have a team of lawyers whereas I would probably be penniless from hiring one lawyer to sue. I don’t think most people understand how expensive a lawsuit is and how draining emotionally and financially it would be. You may win coverage but you will spend everything in lawyer fees.

But that doesn’t sound like what even happened to him. He wanted a particular spinal surgery and the doctor refused to do it. Seems like it wasn’t indicated, wouldn’t help, risk didn’t out weigh the benefits, etc. It wasn’t even a matter of insurance. But this stuff happens ALL the time. People think they need a lot of things that they really don’t. And him being as “smart” of course thinks he knows better than the doctors and it’s all a conspiracy

His manifesto does not say this. He talked about his mom’s and his treatment being denied by UHC.

Someone found his Reddit posts about wanting the spine surgery and the doctor wouldn’t do it. His mom had the money to pay for whatever treatment she needed, insurance or not- I cannot imagine she went without anything she deemed she needed. No way UHC forced limits to her care she couldn’t have over ridden herself and payed for

You really do not know what she could or could not afford. You have zero idea about their life. It’s pretty clear she was going through a lot of health problems from his manifesto. He had back surgery and his sister is a doctor.

They own MULTIPLE country clubs and assisted living facilities plus had the finances for cover expensive private school and Ivy college for perhaps multiple kids. I’m sure they could scrounge up some money for her meds and treatment. They were not limited to what UHC would provide.

Truth. One kid attended Vandy and med school. Another is an artist. Expensive lives.

They may have money on paper but sometimes assets aren’t liquid. I don’t know their situation, nor do you.

Of course not. But four years at UMD and four years at Vanderbilt plus four years at College of Charleston plus four years at Gilman and another four years at Penn is very expensive.

Plus their $1m donation to GBMC and so on.

As I stated: expensive lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I watch an FBI profiler on YouTube. She theorized the killing could have been politically motivated, to make a political statement. From public sentiment, that's a possibility. The powers that be, the ruling class, will write a narrative of mental illness. It's an old tired pointless narrative when the killer is a white male U.S. citizen with no other apparent motive.

Wow. 😮

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Yes, because they are risk-pooling, which is the function of insurance. If they paid everyone's bills, they would go bankrupt, and no one would get any care. If you don't want them to do that, pay out of pocket. The number of people who wish for utopia and then cheer on murdering those who fail to achieve it has been really eye-opening. The number of really stupid people is definitely at an all-time high.