Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I don't know much about football but it doesn't happen in basketball at St Johns. Players play for any AAU team they want. The coach doesn't care, he is a good guy. They do have work outs and training throughout the year but just in addition to players AAU teams. One of the baseball players who has to transfer is actually a basketball player too, a really good one. And it is gonna hurt the team when he leaves next week. I am really angry that the school is making him leave because he is a really good kid and its gonna hurt the team. He is also the only junior on the team. It is not fair to the kid or the team or the coach. The baseball coach should be shamed of himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I also wouldn't call the situation with the soccer coach corrupt, at least as I understand it from this thread. Lots of coaches have private training or club teams on the side, given that you can't make enough for a reasonable living otherwise. If you are not requiring kids to attend your side business in order to play on the school team, and you are playing school kids whether or not they participate in the side business, that's a completely different scenario than what is described in the baseball program. It is true that coaches often end up favoring the kids they know from their club teams, and if they do so at the expense of more talented school players, then I think it's unethical, but it's probably hard for coaches to be objective in that scenario.

I don't know if it is as blatant in soccer. Talk to a parent who has a kid on the bench and they'll say that's the reason. Talk to another parent and they'll say it has nothing to do with it. Just don't know.

I think the soccer coach being a jerk at a personal level leads many not to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

This is an odd concept. The sports that make money for the school are clean but a sport that does not is corrupt and used by the coach for personal gain. Why would the school take on the risk of supporting a sport/coach that doesn’t really benefit the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With recent scandals involving pay for play in college admissions, quid pro quo at the highest levels of our government, etc., I can’t believe the school administration would want to fool with stuff like this. It’s a toxic time bomb waiting to go off. Somebody else mentioned that the Washington Post has picked up stories from DCUM before,. I think someone should tip off someone at the Post – they would love this story. Especially given the under armor connection, this is about the problems that come with big money in high school sports. It’s about breaking tax laws. It’s about an administration that supports a corrupt coach at the expense of students. And it’s about a high school dynasty that has been built on cheating. The fact that the school is Catholic is just another layer of icing on the cake. This is the type of story that sells papers.

100% agree with this. If you allow dishonesty and self dealing, where does it stop? If you let the financial abuse of students and families go, what other things will you turn a blind eye to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I also wouldn't call the situation with the soccer coach corrupt, at least as I understand it from this thread. Lots of coaches have private training or club teams on the side, given that you can't make enough for a reasonable living otherwise. If you are not requiring kids to attend your side business in order to play on the school team, and you are playing school kids whether or not they participate in the side business, that's a completely different scenario than what is described in the baseball program. It is true that coaches often end up favoring the kids they know from their club teams, and if they do so at the expense of more talented school players, then I think it's unethical, but it's probably hard for coaches to be objective in that scenario.

I don't know if it is as blatant in soccer. Talk to a parent who has a kid on the bench and they'll say that's the reason. Talk to another parent and they'll say it has nothing to do with it. Just don't know.

I think the soccer coach being a jerk at a personal level leads many not to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

Soccer coach should not get a pass. There are plenty of travel players who didn’t make the team bc they didn’t do his ridiculous summer camp to put money in his pocket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I also wouldn't call the situation with the soccer coach corrupt, at least as I understand it from this thread. Lots of coaches have private training or club teams on the side, given that you can't make enough for a reasonable living otherwise. If you are not requiring kids to attend your side business in order to play on the school team, and you are playing school kids whether or not they participate in the side business, that's a completely different scenario than what is described in the baseball program. It is true that coaches often end up favoring the kids they know from their club teams, and if they do so at the expense of more talented school players, then I think it's unethical, but it's probably hard for coaches to be objective in that scenario.

I don't know if it is as blatant in soccer. Talk to a parent who has a kid on the bench and they'll say that's the reason. Talk to another parent and they'll say it has nothing to do with it. Just don't know.

I think the soccer coach being a jerk at a personal level leads many not to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

Soccer coach should not get a pass. There are plenty of travel players who didn’t make the team bc they didn’t do his ridiculous summer camp to put money in his pocket.

The soccer situation does not sound ideal, but I bet you'd find a variation of this for at least some sports at most public and private schools. It really cannot be lumped together with the baseball situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I also wouldn't call the situation with the soccer coach corrupt, at least as I understand it from this thread. Lots of coaches have private training or club teams on the side, given that you can't make enough for a reasonable living otherwise. If you are not requiring kids to attend your side business in order to play on the school team, and you are playing school kids whether or not they participate in the side business, that's a completely different scenario than what is described in the baseball program. It is true that coaches often end up favoring the kids they know from their club teams, and if they do so at the expense of more talented school players, then I think it's unethical, but it's probably hard for coaches to be objective in that scenario.

I don't know if it is as blatant in soccer. Talk to a parent who has a kid on the bench and they'll say that's the reason. Talk to another parent and they'll say it has nothing to do with it. Just don't know.

I think the soccer coach being a jerk at a personal level leads many not to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

Soccer coach should not get a pass. There are plenty of travel players who didn’t make the team bc they didn’t do his ridiculous summer camp to put money in his pocket.

The soccer situation does not sound ideal, but I bet you'd find a variation of this for at least some sports at most public and private schools. It really cannot be lumped together with the baseball situation.

Yes. Our public HS coach is also a coach for a County travel team. Only kids that play for this Club get spots. If you are a star at a different travel Club, do not even bother trying out. Given the size of the student body, the number of spots and the sheer number of kids that do not look outside of the County for other soccer opportunities---forget it. They take the kids they know and have to make happy so they don't leave the travel team.

[Anonymous]

Soccer in this area is one of most political beasts you will ever see. Most American coaches aren't properly trained and can't spot tangible qualities of a good player. I would not say the Coach is any different than the vast majority of travel coaches across the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I also wouldn't call the situation with the soccer coach corrupt, at least as I understand it from this thread. Lots of coaches have private training or club teams on the side, given that you can't make enough for a reasonable living otherwise. If you are not requiring kids to attend your side business in order to play on the school team, and you are playing school kids whether or not they participate in the side business, that's a completely different scenario than what is described in the baseball program. It is true that coaches often end up favoring the kids they know from their club teams, and if they do so at the expense of more talented school players, then I think it's unethical, but it's probably hard for coaches to be objective in that scenario.

I don't know if it is as blatant in soccer. Talk to a parent who has a kid on the bench and they'll say that's the reason. Talk to another parent and they'll say it has nothing to do with it. Just don't know.

I think the soccer coach being a jerk at a personal level leads many not to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

Soccer coach should not get a pass. There are plenty of travel players who didn’t make the team bc they didn’t do his ridiculous summer camp to put money in his pocket.

The soccer situation does not sound ideal, but I bet you'd find a variation of this for at least some sports at most public and private schools. It really cannot be lumped together with the baseball situation.

Yes. Our public HS coach is also a coach for a County travel team. Only kids that play for this Club get spots. If you are a star at a different travel Club, do not even bother trying out. Given the size of the student body, the number of spots and the sheer number of kids that do not look outside of the County for other soccer opportunities---forget it. They take the kids they know and have to make happy so they don't leave the travel team.

Which HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I also wouldn't call the situation with the soccer coach corrupt, at least as I understand it from this thread. Lots of coaches have private training or club teams on the side, given that you can't make enough for a reasonable living otherwise. If you are not requiring kids to attend your side business in order to play on the school team, and you are playing school kids whether or not they participate in the side business, that's a completely different scenario than what is described in the baseball program. It is true that coaches often end up favoring the kids they know from their club teams, and if they do so at the expense of more talented school players, then I think it's unethical, but it's probably hard for coaches to be objective in that scenario.

I don't know if it is as blatant in soccer. Talk to a parent who has a kid on the bench and they'll say that's the reason. Talk to another parent and they'll say it has nothing to do with it. Just don't know.

I think the soccer coach being a jerk at a personal level leads many not to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

Soccer coach should not get a pass. There are plenty of travel players who didn’t make the team bc they didn’t do his ridiculous summer camp to put money in his pocket.

The soccer situation does not sound ideal, but I bet you'd find a variation of this for at least some sports at most public and private schools. It really cannot be lumped together with the baseball situation.

It can't be lumped in with baseball because it shamelessly shakes down players while NOT winning WCAC championships or even making it to a WCAC championship game. So you get the financial extortion without the result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to me. If you don’t like the way things are done, avoid the school and the program.

What if you like everything about the school other than the one corrupt program, where the coach is doing unethical and illegal things that harm kids. Seems like it would be worthwhile to see if that problem could be fixed.

If the HOS and others in the administration are complicit in “the one corrupt program,” how much about the school could you like? If the school allows corrupt behavior in one program, you should assume they allow it in others. You’re naive if you think otherwise. If they allow a coach to treat students like chattel, why would you entrust your kid to them?

Are people forgetting this thread started as a discussion about the corruption in the soccer program at SJC and has morphed into a discussion about the corruption in their baseball program? This is not corruption in one program. It's a systemic problem and the administration is happy to allow coaches to extort parents and sacrifice the well being of students if it means more trophies. Athlete or not, you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking the school will do what's in the best interest of your kid. Their priorities are elsewhere.

I disagree, the basketball and football programs which are the money makers for the school do not operate like this.

I also wouldn't call the situation with the soccer coach corrupt, at least as I understand it from this thread. Lots of coaches have private training or club teams on the side, given that you can't make enough for a reasonable living otherwise. If you are not requiring kids to attend your side business in order to play on the school team, and you are playing school kids whether or not they participate in the side business, that's a completely different scenario than what is described in the baseball program. It is true that coaches often end up favoring the kids they know from their club teams, and if they do so at the expense of more talented school players, then I think it's unethical, but it's probably hard for coaches to be objective in that scenario.

I don't know if it is as blatant in soccer. Talk to a parent who has a kid on the bench and they'll say that's the reason. Talk to another parent and they'll say it has nothing to do with it. Just don't know.

I think the soccer coach being a jerk at a personal level leads many not to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

Soccer coach should not get a pass. There are plenty of travel players who didn’t make the team bc they didn’t do his ridiculous summer camp to put money in his pocket.

The soccer situation does not sound ideal, but I bet you'd find a variation of this for at least some sports at most public and private schools. It really cannot be lumped together with the baseball situation.

It can't be lumped in with baseball because it shamelessly shakes down players while NOT winning WCAC championships or even making it to a WCAC championship game. So you get the financial extortion without the result.

Are you actually excusing the outright extortion of the baseball program because they win WCAC championships? Were you fine with the Astros sign stealing as well? Worked out pretty well for them, results wise.

I get that you have a beef with the soccer program, but as mentioned above, what the soccer coach is doing is common around here and arguably not even unethical. I'm sure it feels that way if your kid is not one of the ones he ends up selecting or playing, but as long as some kids on the school team who don't play club with him are getting a fair shake, then the situations are nothing alike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I get that you have a beef with the soccer program, but as mentioned above, what the soccer coach is doing is common around here and arguably not even unethical. I'm sure it feels that way if your kid is not one of the ones he ends up selecting or playing, but as long as some kids on the school team who don't play club with him are getting a fair shake, then the situations are nothing alike.

At our school, it would be considered unethical. Teachers cannot have an outside the school financial relationship (i.e. tutor) a student who is in their class. I actually raised this thread with our AD and they said "this would not be allowed at our school at all".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I get that you have a beef with the soccer program, but as mentioned above, what the soccer coach is doing is common around here and arguably not even unethical. I'm sure it feels that way if your kid is not one of the ones he ends up selecting or playing, but as long as some kids on the school team who don't play club with him are getting a fair shake, then the situations are nothing alike.

At our school, it would be considered unethical. Teachers cannot have an outside the school financial relationship (i.e. tutor) a student who is in their class. I actually raised this thread with our AD and they said "this would not be allowed at our school at all".

I'm the poster you're quoting, and I think it's unethical too. It's bound to cloud a coach's judgment if he knows the players from other arenas, and adding the financial element worsens the ethics. But I can see arguments the other way, and my major point is that what appears to be happening in the baseball program is much worse in every way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With recent scandals involving pay for play in college admissions, quid pro quo at the highest levels of our government, etc., I can’t believe the school administration would want to fool with stuff like this. It’s a toxic time bomb waiting to go off. Somebody else mentioned that the Washington Post has picked up stories from DCUM before,. I think someone should tip off someone at the Post – they would love this story. Especially given the under armor connection, this is about the problems that come with big money in high school sports. It’s about breaking tax laws. It’s about an administration that supports a corrupt coach at the expense of students. And it’s about a high school dynasty that has been built on cheating. The fact that the school is Catholic is just another layer of icing on the cake. This is the type of story that sells papers.

100% agree with this. If you allow dishonesty and self dealing, where does it stop? If you let the financial abuse of students and families go, what other things will you turn a blind eye to?

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.“

[Anonymous]

As an insider, I am very disappointed in how things have played out over the last several months. Losing those 5 players will definitely hurt the team on the field. What’s happening is hurting off field too. I don’t blame them and I can understand why they did what they did. I thought their decision was going to bring some needed change. But Coach Gibbs is acting like he just had a tumor removed and got a clean bill of health. No real changes. Afraid to do anything but put our heads down and ride it out.