MoCo seeking feedback on proposal to limit single family zoning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

My kids will inherit the proceeds of my home - that’s their “trust fund”. Don’t mess with it.

You don't want your kids to buy a house until you die?

And you better hope you don't end up needing long-term care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I find it extremely rich the county rolls out the red carpet for massive amounts of undocumented migration and then complains later on about a 'housing crisis!'. Why exactly should American citizens upend our way of life and our housing we worked extremely hard to own because there are thousands upon thousands of affordable housing units that already exist but are gobbled up by undocumented migrants? You can't manufacture a crisis then demand our citizens ruin their way of life because foreign nationals are here illegally and consuming massive quantities of housing.

How about removing people here illegally first, then evaluating the housing stock once huge quantities are freed up for our actually citizens?

The county continually makes problems and comes up with solutions that make everything worse. Rinse and repeat until we are all equally in the gutter. I'm so glad we are moving at breakneck speed to be a county entirely of renters beholden to our corporate landlords. The only progress progressives are making is hitting the middle class and making us all slaves to landlords and investors.

Our population growth rate now is lower than when a 1960 suburb was built. If we absorbed that, we can absorb today. In fact, we should absorb more, for strategic and economic reasons.

Certainly, in a well planned manner in areas zoned for it.

For example, why are we wasting valuable time fighting about this ridiculous want for upzoning residential when the county could be zoning the Sears complex in White Oak for residential/commercial? Instead of finding a new anchor, they should bulldoze it and build.

Sure White Flint too, with bonus metro access.

This was an idyllic post-slavery rural county that greedy developers turned into little SFH enclaves (with racially restrictive covenants). And greedy developers will turn it into something else next.

What is so shocking about that?

If you don't know what is so shocking about the assertion that Montgomery County was "an idyllic post-slavery rural county" until the greedy developers showed up, I certainly won't be able to explain it to you.

Maybe you don't realize that it's critical of nostalgia. Something like 40% of the county was enslaved. This was a rural county run by the landowning (former slaveowning) interests until the suburbs came.

That was 160 years ago and it is completely irrelevant to the discussion about single family zoning today. People from all races and ethnicities live in single family neighborhoods, and this proposal to eliminate single family zoning will disproportionately impact the SF neighborhoods with higher % of POC. Stop trying to use a fallacious social justice oriented argument to support your agenda when this policy will actually worsen racial inequality. This is the opposite of social justice, it is pulling up the ladder and reducing opportunities for POC to create generation wealth for their families.

The county changed thanks to development bringing in more people to the suburbs. At the time the changes started, those developments had racially restrictive covenants, reducing opportunities for POC to create generational wealth for their families.

DP. Even for the ones that didn't have restrictive covenants, which were illegal after 1948, there was a whole collection of laws and programs that enabled white people to buy houses in the suburbs but made it very difficult for black people to do so. This explains why the population of Montgomery County became much more white during the post World War II suburban boom years.

Slight correction, they were unenforceable after '48, but only illegal after the Fair Housing Act in '68. So they did continue to be used.

They have not been enforceable for 76 years. WW2 was 80 years ago. Someone that was prevented from buying a house due to covenants would have to be at least 98 years old. There is almost no one alive today that has experienced this problem in the US. Stop making this discussion about something it is not. The reality is that your policy will have the opposite impact and worsen racial disparities for homeownership
. Most of these units will be rentals because HOAs are not economically efficient for quadplex and triplex units. When a SFH (in a relatively affordable neighborhood) home is replaced with a quadplex, it eliminates ownership opportunities for POC and pushes people towards renting. Even when these units are owner occupied, townhomes and condos appreciate at a much slower rate than SF houses. This policy will increase the gap in homeownership rates and also increase the disparity in home appreciation rates by pushing middle class POC into housing types with less appreciation potential.

It sounds like you agree that townhomes and other higher-density homes are a good way to create more affordable housing.

I agree that is an excellent way to prevent POC from establishing generational wealth and push them to be permanent renters. It’s great for Hedge funds, but it does not benefit hardworking middle class families trying to build a better future for their children.

You don't think people buy townhomes? Weird.

They do not appreciate as much as single family homes. Eliminating single family homes and replacing them with townhomes (in predominately POC neighborhoods) will make the racial disparities in home ownership by home type worse. So the net effect is that white housing wealth will appreciate even faster than POC housing wealth if policies worsen existing disparities. This is even more problematic with condos because they tend to lose value after adjusting for inflation. Owning a condo often leaves people worse off financially than no owning at all. So go ahead with this policy if you want, but it will basically benefit rich white people the most and worsen the racial wealth gap, which is not remotely progressive.

I understand that your premise is that this policy will result in less single family homes available for purchase by populations that have historically been unable to build wealth through homeownership. Accepting that as true, it does not mean that it will worsen the racial wealth gap.

The wealth gap is largely a result of exclusionary zoning, but not solely or even primarily due to the loss of appreciation of owned real estate. It is a result of the opportunity loss of a lack of access to the resources in historically SFZ areas. There is evidence to show, controlled for other variables, that things like health outcomes, educational test scores, connections/networking, college attendance, etc are tied to location. Allowing access to those communities even if renting or owning properties with lower appreciation will over time decrease the wealth gap. Will it necessarily meant that some of the resources and opportunities currently enjoyed by the wealthy are spread around to more people? Yes it does. And that is very progressive.

This policy won't do that. The multifamily units will be disproportionately built in the middle class POC areas which will cause relocation away from these places among middle class and upper-middle class households. The areas in MOCO with more affordable SFH tend to have higher % POC. Moving to opportunity only works in moderation because if there is a significant change the income composition of "high opportunity" neighborhoods, the factors that were conducive to social mobility will no longer exist. This policy will not be effective at mass scale and it risks worsening inequality by creating more insidious structural barriers where children from different SES backgrounds do not socialize together at all. Affluent households will not tolerate a decline in their neighborhood conditions or their schools and they will move to somewhere that is more insulated from these policy changes or opt out of the public school system entirely. NYC is a worrying example of what the future will look like in MOCO, the private school attendance rate for rich white children (and asian children) is 50%+.

Yes, it is very clear you're scared of black and brown people, particularly if they aren't as rich as you.

You should spend more of your time thinking about why that is, rather than whatever you think you're doing here. MoCo doesn't seem to be for you anyway.

This is such BS. The very neighborhoods in MoCo that will be hurt most are in fact also the most socio economically and racially diverse - Wheaton, Silver Spring, Glenmont, Langley Park. The areas that are defacto exempt from this proposal - whiter, more affluent, less diverse.

Your “but you’re a racist” card shows you have no evidence to the contrary and either your a YIMBY who feels entitled to take from those who already struggle for what they have or a developer who sees $$$$ when they can convert a SFH plot into four homes and charge more per square foot than they could get for a SFH while simultaneously overtaxing schools, infrastructure, and crowding streets without any consequence or accountability.

This.

It’s already begun in these overly diverse areas (meaning immigrant communities now outnumber natives who have moved out) where families are doubled/tripled/quadrupled up. If you’ve lived in these areas, you would know the impact. We left a neighborhood like that once too many houses were overcrowded with multiple families, cars everywhere, and ultimately crime. When the swat team raided a house across the street, we called a realtor. Drugs, guns, and human trafficking…sigh.

Btw, socioeconomics trump race. I now live on a street with a rainbow of people, but nobody is tripled up…because everyone is educated, legal, and UMC/affluent. No criminals in my neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

It boggles my mind that people simply can't fathom people believing in these policies without it being based on personal profit motive.

Do you think that all of the following organizations and people are somehow captured by the developers and have no independent basis for supporting the policy?

the White House: https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2021/06/17/exclusionary-zoning-its-effect-on-racial-discrimination-in-the-housing-market/

HUD: https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr-edge-featd-article-072417.html

ACLU: https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr-edge-featd-article-072417.html

NAACP: https://www.arlnow.com/2024/07/09/racial-equity-arguments-raised-in-naacp-filing-on-missing-middle-lawsuit/

National Low Income Housing Coalition: https://nlihc.org/resource/research-finds-high-demand-municipalities-have-experienced-limited-housing-growth-likely

Just to name a few....

Thanks. And not one of these agencies / organizations addresses the very real consequences of density for the people living in the neighborhoods that are working class / middle class. And specifically that is it will ruin the neighborhood, overcrowd schools (already an issue for us in this county), and overtax already old and under maintenanced infrastructure.

You want to create affordable housing. Nice. Don’t do it on the backs of middle class and working class homeowners in the name of those very same homeowners!

PP here. I wasn't arguing whether or not the proposal IS good public policy. I was arguing that many people sincerely believe that it is.

Let's start there, rather than dismissing any and all proponents as motivated by individual profit motive, and somehow deceitfully masquerading as a "normal resident."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

False. I do not see these issues in red zip codes. Of course, DCUM would never consider living there, but the reality is that what you are seeking is often found there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

Correct.

And you can see what happens when the affluent, educated taxpayers move away and immigrants who operate in cash under the table move in. Keep an eye on Chicago and its suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

False. I do not see these issues in red zip codes. Of course, DCUM would never consider living there, but the reality is that what you are seeking is often found there.

Right. Red zip codes aren't desirable places to live, so housing costs aren't as much of a problem there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

Who is talking trust funds? Do you really imagine those of us in these working class / middle class neighborhoods most vulnerable to the impact of this proposal are any different than you?

I’ve told my kids to start saving for a home early, live at home with me during college years to save cost of housing and forgo massive student loans, and I’ve also told them to be prepared to save for 15 years for a home - just like I did. I was in my 40s when I bought my first home.

I’m also teaching them a lesson that millennials obviously didn’t get: you aren’t entitled to a home. You have to earn it. So pick a local college, get a degree that offers a good income and career, and live modestly and save every penny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

Who is talking trust funds? Do you really imagine those of us in these working class / middle class neighborhoods most vulnerable to the impact of this proposal are any different than you?

I’ve told my kids to start saving for a home early, live at home with me during college years to save cost of housing and forgo massive student loans, and I’ve also told them to be prepared to save for 15 years for a home - just like I did. I was in my 40s when I bought my first home.

I’m also teaching them a lesson that millennials obviously didn’t get: you aren’t entitled to a home. You have to earn it. So pick a local college, get a degree that offers a good income and career, and live modestly and save every penny.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face. You wouldn't have to be so concerned about leaving a large inheritance if housing costs weren't going to be so expensive for your kids. You seem to be more interested in making things worse for others than making them better for you and your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

Who is talking trust funds? Do you really imagine those of us in these working class / middle class neighborhoods most vulnerable to the impact of this proposal are any different than you?

I’ve told my kids to start saving for a home early, live at home with me during college years to save cost of housing and forgo massive student loans, and I’ve also told them to be prepared to save for 15 years for a home - just like I did. I was in my 40s when I bought my first home.

I’m also teaching them a lesson that millennials obviously didn’t get: you aren’t entitled to a home. You have to earn it. So pick a local college, get a degree that offers a good income and career, and live modestly and save every penny.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face. You wouldn't have to be so concerned about leaving a large inheritance if housing costs weren't going to be so expensive for your kids. You seem to be more interested in making things worse for others than making them better for you and your kids.

Oh please. Give it a res

First, leaving a home or the proceeds from a home sale is called building generational wealth. Rich people do it all the time to give their kids a leg up. My parents could not do it for me. I’ll do it for my kids. But, wait, you don’t think I should do that because why? Because I’m not rich and therefore my kids should have to start with nothing like I did? Oh, I see ….

Second, how does my interest in preserving the value of homes like mine in a working / middle class neighborhood filled with POC and immigrant families who, like me, worked hard for our homes and who want to preserve the integrity of our neighborhood we bought into and not be overrun by developers, further taxing our schools, streets, and infrastructure (NONE of which any of you YIMBYs seem to GAF about) not caring about others?

My kids go to these overcrowded schools. Their school is old and overcapacity already and the county has no money to address this issue …. I don’t have money to send my kids to private school. Tell me about how developers are going to address this?

Parking is always tight in my neighborhood. Streets are narrow. I can’t afford to build a driveway, nor could most of my neighbors, I’m willing to bet. How are developers addressing this?

And our infrastructure is falling apart. County says it has no money to address it. I already pay a considerable amount in taxes. How are quadplexes all over my neighborhood going to help this?

Again, you keep wanting to make this about “helping” POC, middle class people, working class people … this proposal just hurts them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

Correct.

And you can see what happens when the affluent, educated taxpayers move away and immigrants who operate in cash under the table move in. Keep an eye on Chicago and its suburbs.

This is still happening in most major metro areas. Affluent people are moving to further out lower density suburbs or enrolling their kids in private school instead. People that decide to enroll in private school, but remain in densely population areas are also moving to more secluded neighborhoods (gated communities, or established neighborhoods with strong HOAs and covenants). The US appears to be undergoing a process of 21st century socioeconomic balkanization and this trend was greatly accelerated by the COVID pandemic. Remote and hybrid work is strongly correlated with income/education. This disparity in mobility and resources by socioeconomic status will enable higher levels of socioeconomic segregation than previously possible before 2020. Eliminating single family zoning is practically guaranteed to worsen affluent flight from MOCO and it risks creating a fiscal death spiral for the county that will be difficult to reverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

Correct.

And you can see what happens when the affluent, educated taxpayers move away and immigrants who operate in cash under the table move in. Keep an eye on Chicago and its suburbs.

This is absolutely happening in Montgomery County. There is an entire underground cash economy going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

False. I do not see these issues in red zip codes. Of course, DCUM would never consider living there, but the reality is that what you are seeking is often found there.

Right. Red zip codes aren't desirable places to live, so housing costs aren't as much of a problem there.

Again, false. The sun belt is booming. I spend time in these places and the quality of life is far better than MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It annoys the crap out of me that developers, realtors and mortgage brokers are out here using this anonymous board for their arguments.

You can't fathom the concept of people wanting housing to be affordable for their kids? I've got two-- lower elementary. 20 more years of housing costs going up considerably faster than incomes is not going to make a good world for them. And as a fed, I'm not exactly in a position to give them trust funds.

DP

Lifelong county resident raising a handful of kids in MoCo. Given the lack of affordable housing and related services (eg, childcare, insurance, groceries, etc. are ridiculously expensive here) coupled with the shifting demographics impacting public schools, I’m coming to grips with the reality that my kids aren’t likely to plant roots here. My spouse and I will likely downsize and retire near wherever our kids land.

The Atlantic and several other outlets are sounding the alarm on affluent/educated/mostly white flight from blue cities and their previously highly rated suburbs. Moco has already experienced this and I am confident this housing proposal will only foster more flight.

If this was a uniquely MoCo/DMV problem, then sure. But the same problems are going on pretty much everywhere it is desirable to live.

False. I do not see these issues in red zip codes. Of course, DCUM would never consider living there, but the reality is that what you are seeking is often found there.

Right. Red zip codes aren't desirable places to live, so housing costs aren't as much of a problem there.

Again, false. The sun belt is booming. I spend time in these places and the quality of life is far better than MD.

Not in the red zip codes.

[Anonymous]

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